Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Safe Sit Flying?

 

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Slink

Sep 1, 2001, 8:27 PM
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Safe Sit Flying? Can't Post

Have rigs with no exposed bridle made sit flying very safe? What are some opinions on sit flying using student gear with some bridle exposed from the BOC pilot chute pouch?



Zennie

Sep 1, 2001, 8:32 PM
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What kind (i.e. make/model) of container is it?

--------
Zennie
"I know the pieces fit. 'Cause I watched them fall away..."
--Tool


Slink

Sep 1, 2001, 8:44 PM
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A student Javalin, I don't know the model, I don't think it was ever converted. (And I'm not sure I know what I'm tlking about).



apoil  (D License)

Sep 2, 2001, 9:22 PM
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Ask the instructors who would presumably be letting you use their student gear if they feel

a) the rig is freefly safe
b) they feel that your skill level is sufficient that you can attempt a solo sit fly on your own.

If one of them says "no" don't go looking for another instructor that will say "yes" or "maybe" or "it's up to you".

Saut A. Poil



Dutchboy  (A 37004)

Sep 3, 2001, 8:56 AM
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Personally, I won't sitfly in a Javelin. I've seen too much in the way of flaps and bridle flapping around with others doing so.

The Dutchboy
http://www.geocities.com/ppolstra


Zennie

Sep 3, 2001, 9:46 AM
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Our DZ is primarily a Javelin DZ although Vectors are slowly making headway (me being one of the Vector people). Our DZ also has a pretty hefty share of freefliers who jump Javelins.

ramon might have a better insight on this since he knows all the freefliers at our DZ.

--------
Zennie
"I know the pieces fit. 'Cause I watched them fall away..."
--Tool


bbbilly14  (B License)

Sep 4, 2001, 2:04 AM
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Re: Safe Sit Flying? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Personally, I won't sitfly in a Javelin.
Why not? I have never had a problem with one, but I want to hear your side of it.

Love,
Billy
"Light a candle for the sinners---Set the world on fire!"
Marilyn Manson


Brokeneagle  (D 27414)

Sep 4, 2001, 4:18 AM
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Re: Safe Sit Flying? [In reply to] Can't Post

I want to add a question to this: Dutch and I and several others at our DZ fly Dolphins, which are a hybrid-type Javelin- is the bridle less exposed in a Dolphin? (I am just beginning to sit-fly, and have never seen that many freeflyers/sitflyers in the air, nor examined a Javelin for Dolphin similarities)
Brokeneagle.

<shrug, grin, innocent look> I'm really very gentle, no matter what my kung-fu teacher says...


flyhi  (D License)

Sep 4, 2001, 4:39 AM
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In reply to:
Why not? I have never had a problem with one, but I want to hear your side of it.
Neither have I. When my Javelin {constructed in 1999} is all buttoned up, there is no bridle showing. A good pin check prior to exit and I feel safe.

"Sex without love is a meaningless experience, but as meaningless experiences go, it's pretty damned good." - Woody Allen

flyhiCool


Cacophony  (D 23912)

Sep 4, 2001, 7:48 AM
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Re: Safe Sit Flying? [In reply to] Can't Post

A good freefly rig would be a rig with tuc-tab riser covers not velcro (velcro is bad for freeflying), zero bridal exposed, a BOC with preferably a F-111 PC (this is good because it won't slip out of the pouch as easily as a Zero P PC), a tight closing loop, tight leg and chest straps, and expecially secure main and reserve pin covers. Someone add on if I have forgotten anything. There is nothing wrong with Javelins as long as it is up to date. Make sure it is safe according to the standards of your rigger. Personally I jump a Vector 3.

Safe landings,
Alex D-23912


(This post was edited by Cacophony on Sep 3, 2001, 11:52 PM)


freeflir29  (D 10000000)

Sep 4, 2001, 1:32 PM
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I saw a really cool mod for free flying this weekend. The guy had a small pillow where the hackey usually is. The pillow stuck out and had tuck tabs that covered the entrance to the BOC pocket. Pretty interesting looking and something I may incorporate in the future.

"The cab driver said... he recognized my girly by the back of her head" -Beasty Boys
Clay


Kris  (D 26033)

Sep 4, 2001, 1:53 PM
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In reply to:
I saw a really cool mod for free flying this weekend. The guy had a small pillow where the hackey usually is. The pillow stuck out and had tuck tabs that covered the entrance to the BOC pocket. Pretty interesting looking and something I may incorporate in the future.
Clay, the container was probably a Mirage or a Wings. They both have the option of having a "freefly" handle now. The handle attaches just as you said. It is not a true pull-out as the handle is still connected to the apex of the pilot chute.

Bill Hallett of Mirage Systems was demoing their new freefly handle at the Freaks Flock Together boogie at Skydive Dallas a few months ago. You can pick up the entire rig by the handle but give a little twist and it comes right out. I ordered it on my new Mirage UNISYN.

Kris
Less than two weeks to wait until I have my new Mirage and Heatwave...



OmriMon  (C 32176)

Sep 4, 2001, 4:44 PM
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Re: Safe Sit Flying? [In reply to] Can't Post

javelin now have this option too

Free Skies,
Omri A-38593 Crazy


Aviatrr  (D 27349)

Sep 4, 2001, 6:53 PM
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In reply to:
Bill Hallett of Mirage Systems was demoing their new freefly handle at the Freaks Flock Together boogie at Skydive Dallas a few months ago. You can pick up the entire rig by the handle but give a little twist and it comes right out. I ordered it on my new Mirage UNISYN.
The freefly handle is really a sweet setup.. Bill was showing it to me today.. Just be sure you don't let anybody jump your rig without first showing them how it works.....it could result in a reserve ride if they try to pull it out incorrectly and think it's a hard pull..

Mike



Kris  (D 26033)

Sep 4, 2001, 7:58 PM
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In reply to:
The freefly handle is really a sweet setup.. Bill was showing it to me today.. Just be sure you don't let anybody jump your rig without first showing them how it works.....it could result in a reserve ride if they try to pull it out incorrectly and think it's a hard pull..
Yup, that would definitely ruin someone's day! As it is, I will be doing a *LOT* of practice pulls on the ground before I go up with my new toy. I want the pull to be pure reflexive muscle memory before I try it for real in the air...

Kris



VivaHeadDown  (D 28101)

Sep 4, 2001, 10:50 PM
Post #16 of 32 (2409 views)
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I used to jump an older model javelin that belong to my college club. It's had many mods added by a profesional rigger as a result of some of my dives. I think I am several inches shorter due to 2 premature openings in a stand. Thank God there were no collisions on either jump. It's a simple rule: Exposed pieces and parts are a BAD thing. Avoid jumping in rigs that aren't safe for FFing otherwise you're taking a risk that's going to eventually do some damage if not kill you.





PhillyKev

Sep 5, 2001, 5:43 AM
Post #17 of 32 (2387 views)
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Maybe I'm confused, but I jump demo Javelin's from Square3. And there is zero exposed bridle. There's a narrow pocket that runs down from the top closing flap to the BOC that you tuck the bridle into. All flaps use tuck tabs, only velcro is a small piece above the pin where you attach the bridle to the top flap for extra security. And there's maybe an inch of exposed riser at the most. Seems like it's as safe as you can get for freeflying.

cielos azules y cerveza fra

-Kevin


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Sep 5, 2001, 7:17 AM
Post #18 of 32 (2376 views)
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THats because that pocket on the closinf flap was added after Fall '99. Before then there was less protection and bridle was exposed. The other problem is if the closing loop is not tight enough the main flap will open fairly easly. This means the the bridle and pin are totaly exposed to the air and can open at any time. The Tuck tabs on a Javelin came about in the later '98/ Early 99 modles from what I've seen. Before then it was velcro.

Do I HAVE to do another raft dive??? Smile


RemiAndKaren  (C 2328)

Sep 5, 2001, 8:45 AM
Post #19 of 32 (2369 views)
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I'm not gonna get into Javelin bashing (allthough dominant player in any industry should get its share), BUT...
In reply to:
The Tuck tabs on a Javelin came about in the later '98/ Early 99
I'm really not sure about that Phree... ... My wife had a '94 with tuck tabs, and even before that I cant remember seeing ANY javelins with velcro riser covers......
but if there is one rig that I've seen that has a tendency to have its riser covers opened while wearing it, it is the Jav....


And for God's sake!!!! Stop treating sit/head down as the ultimate gear testing dicipline!!!! Try launching a linked 15 way (or more...) or diving last out of a DC3 (or even a caravan....) I'm not saying its worse, but it sure ass heck aint any more forgiving to poorly maintained/designed rigs....

Remi
Who would rather jump or properly maintained Velcro filled Vector II or Racer then a poorly maintained -*insert your favorite velcroless hideen briddle rig here*-

Remi
Muff 914


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Sep 5, 2001, 11:20 AM
Post #20 of 32 (2353 views)
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Re: Safe Sit Flying? [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought it was a late model mod for the Riser tuck tabs since one of the jumpers at the DZ had that mod done to his 96 mod in early 98. Your probally right about being around in 94/95. I've seen a few of the jearly Javelins with Velcro still floating around the DZ. Most of them are the early 90's rigs owned by the POP's and SOS guys.
And I think the worst possible thing that you can do to your gear is be front float on something like a DC3 with its propblast! Divers on big ways easely exceed the speeds most freeflyers play at on a regular basis. There is nothing wrong with velcro as long as it is maintained properly. I'm with you on that one Remi!

Do I HAVE to do another raft dive??? Smile


Slowfaller  (A 38080)

Sep 5, 2001, 1:52 PM
Post #21 of 32 (2334 views)
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Speaking of sit flying, I suck at it. I always spin like a top and flip around the sky. what could i do to improve my sit fly??

CHris

" Thanks, you're special " - My brother talking to the Wendy's employee


freeflir29  (D 10000000)

Sep 5, 2001, 4:59 PM
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"Speaking of sit flying, I suck at it. I always spin like a top and flip around the sky. what could i do to improve my sit fly??"

Keep your arms back and even. Feet flat and back of your thighs 90 deg to the earth. If it persists get video so someone can point out what you are doing wrong.



"Jesus Blessed me with his future...and I potect it with fire!"-R.A.T.M.
Clay


Slowfaller  (A 38080)

Sep 5, 2001, 5:35 PM
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Thanks Clay, I plan on doing some coached jumps when I have $$

CHris

" You're having the time of my life, and I think you've got it right" Jets to Brazil


MarkM  (C 35089)

Sep 6, 2001, 2:25 PM
Post #24 of 32 (2263 views)
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Re: Safe Sit Flying? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I've seen a few of the jearly Javelins with Velcro still floating around the DZ. Most of them are the early 90's rigs owned by the POP's and SOS guys.
Heh, well I'm sure as hell not a POP or SOS guy but my container is a 92 EOS.

No velcro on the lower part of the rig, but I do have some velcro on my reserve riser covers. No main riser covers on it at all though which really freaks some people out.



VivaHeadDown  (D 28101)

Sep 7, 2001, 4:33 PM
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Re: Safe Sit Flying? [In reply to] Can't Post

It's very easy to get your feet uneven so check them as well.

And did someone say properly maintained velcro is safe for everyday freeflying??? Either you left out "not" right before safe, or maybe you need to share some of whatever it is you're smokin. It's just not reliable enough...or am I smokin something?



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