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Pilot Chute Nightmare

 

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castle_bravo  (C License)

Oct 1, 2010, 8:12 PM
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Pilot Chute Nightmare Can't Post

This here is a cautionary tale, warning against rushed/poor PC packing an/or poor PC throws (as I've told afterward). If anyone has any additional ideas on what might have caused the main PC mal - please, share your thoughts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49M8hD472_I


doughboyshred  (Student)

Oct 1, 2010, 8:18 PM
Post #2 of 90 (4759 views)
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Re: [castle_bravo] Pilot Chute Nightmare [In reply to] Can't Post

my heart stopped just watching that.


castle_bravo  (C License)

Oct 1, 2010, 8:20 PM
Post #3 of 90 (4757 views)
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Re: [doughboyshred] Pilot Chute Nightmare [In reply to] Can't Post

Just to clarify - #139 was not my packjob Tongue


happythoughts  (D License)

Oct 1, 2010, 8:55 PM
Post #4 of 90 (4732 views)
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Re: [castle_bravo] Pilot Chute Nightmare [In reply to] Can't Post

Glad you are safe.

The good news is, you didn't have search for your main.
Wink


liftedtitan

Oct 1, 2010, 9:00 PM
Post #5 of 90 (4730 views)
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Re: [castle_bravo] Pilot Chute Nightmare [In reply to] Can't Post

holy FUCKING shit! Nice job on not giving up!

The glove is a little weird, do you think it had anything to do with it?


93zx11  (Student)

Oct 1, 2010, 9:31 PM
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Re: [castle_bravo] Pilot Chute Nightmare [In reply to] Can't Post

Obviously the whole jump went to shit when you broke FAA regulations and went through that cloud.

Just kidding, but really.

Glad you are alive... If it were me I would have reached back there and dun diddly yanked that bridle. I'd rather have something that has a chance of inflating (and if not, something I can cutaway) rather than pilot chute in tow to get tangled up in my reserve.

Either way, count yourself lucky that glove is the only casualty in the whole ordeal.


SEREJumper  (D 29555)

Oct 1, 2010, 9:56 PM
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Re: [93zx11] Pilot Chute Nightmare [In reply to] Can't Post

The OP is from Lithuania, so the FAA probably doesn't care that much (unless this jump was on US soil).


727_Jumper

Oct 1, 2010, 10:03 PM
Post #8 of 90 (4675 views)
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Re: [castle_bravo] Pilot Chute Nightmare [In reply to] Can't Post

was the PC not cocked?


93zx11  (Student)

Oct 1, 2010, 11:08 PM
Post #9 of 90 (4648 views)
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Re: [SEREJumper] Pilot Chute Nightmare [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The OP is from Lithuania, so the FAA probably doesn't care that much (unless this jump was on US soil).

I was totally just busting his balls.

But you are wrong there, no one is safe from the FAA!


Arvoitus  (D 3917)

Oct 1, 2010, 11:55 PM
Post #10 of 90 (4629 views)
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Re: [castle_bravo] Pilot Chute Nightmare [In reply to] Can't Post

Just curious about something. I was taught to cutway if I make any attempt to pull my main but you went straight to your reserve without cutting away. Why did you do it like that?


CornishChris  (C 102981)

Oct 2, 2010, 12:11 AM
Post #11 of 90 (4622 views)
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Re: [castle_bravo] Pilot Chute Nightmare [In reply to] Can't Post

Christ.

So you landed under your main and not your reserve if I am watching correctly. Training, at least mine, says that if you have anything out (i.e. you PC) then you cutaway before deploying reserve and I would be interested on theories about how that would have ended up.

You were in one of the worst positions - a PC in tow. You survived but I think you need to review a few things.

Firstly I have no idea what was going on on the jump itself. Lots of spinning. Not much tracking (by the looks of things) and no awareness, apparently, of where your other jumper is. I am, maybe wrongly, assuming an early sit fly jump with not much control. Anyway, other than the scariness of that jump itself you then had the shittiest opening I have seen for a while.

It may be that the way the PC was packed contributed to what happened. It is possible to choke your own PC in the BOC by sloppy packing so it's possible that the pack job and sloppy throw contributed.

Personally I would have tried to pull the pin with the bridle by hand. At least that way upon cutting away, if that hadn't fixed it, I would be less at risk of a hang up of both main & reserve.

You didn't do that and you didn't give up which I have massive respect for but I think you need to review the processes that led you to be in that situation - packing, throw, reserve drills etc. to try and avoid getting in it again as next time you might not be so lucky.

Stay safe.


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Oct 2, 2010, 2:07 AM
Post #12 of 90 (4593 views)
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Re: [castle_bravo] Pilot Chute Nightmare [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
This here is a cautionary tale, warning against rushed/poor PC packing an/or poor PC throws (as I've told afterward). If anyone has any additional ideas on what might have caused the main PC mal - please, share your thoughts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49M8hD472_I
Jumping with camera at #138? What do you expect?


muff528  (D 17609)

Oct 2, 2010, 6:13 AM
Post #13 of 90 (4551 views)
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Re: [castle_bravo] Pilot Chute Nightmare [In reply to] Can't Post

Glad you survived that! Chilling video! (that skull cloud with his hand around his throat at around 0:40 was a nice touch.Tongue)


muff528  (D 17609)

Oct 2, 2010, 6:17 AM
Post #14 of 90 (4547 views)
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Re: [castle_bravo] Pilot Chute Nightmare [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Just to clarify - #139 was not my packjob Tongue

After #138, jump #139 probably wouldn't have been my packjob, either! Smile


castle_bravo  (C License)

Oct 2, 2010, 6:43 AM
Post #15 of 90 (4533 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] Pilot Chute Nightmare [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Jumping with camera at #138? What do you expect?



So , you suggest that my having a camera on the helmet directly caused the PC entanglement ? Not wishing to troll or start flaming here btw. I respect your opinion (as you have more jumps than me), and I've read all the threads regarding camera flying, yet I was not able to find a single scenario in which a camera would cause PC inflation problems or PC-bridle entanglement. The only camera related problem I can think of is bridle wrapping round the camera, but since this was not the case...



In reply to:
Personally I would have tried to pull the pin with the bridle by hand. At least that way upon cutting away, if that hadn't fixed it, I would be less at risk of a hang up of both main & reserve.

Agreed. Actually, I did attempt to do that, but was not able to catch the bridle behind my back. Think I'll train for this scenario on the ground just in case I get another PC in tow.


(This post was edited by castle_bravo on Oct 2, 2010, 6:57 AM)


jimmytavino  (A 3914)

Oct 2, 2010, 7:09 AM
Post #16 of 90 (4507 views)
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Re: [castle_bravo] Pilot Chute Nightmare [In reply to] Can't Post

i think the comment about the camera @ 138 jumps was meant a bit, as a joke, or "tongue in cheek"..
i do However feel ya' need MORE jumps before donning one..
Cornish Chris s' comments were right ON>>

( especially the part about the skydive being ALL over the place...)

it never hurts to pull a few hundred feet Higher, If the situation allows,,, than to just keep falling, thereby wasting usable and valuable time spent under canopy,, it also gives you some more time to deal with "Issues"
also good point about one quick try at pulling the main pin, by hand, before cutting away...!!!!
.... and the KEY here,,, IS cutting away!!!!!!
and maybe not pulling the reserve..... just Yet..Unsure

instead you yank the reserve handle and toss that freebag right up INTO the main suspension lines.. yikes.

WAS there any editing done here?? WHEN did the main Bag get out!!???
was it before or I think,,,,, AFTER the reserve pull???

Did you grab the freebag?? when it was right above you and pull it IN...
I see the Pilot chute and bridle tugging at you, out to the side??? what happened/?? then??? were your hands and arms tied up with the freebag?? did any of the reserve Canopy material ever "Get out" ???
whoa... glad you didn't hit the ground,, any Harder!!Unsure
effective Pilot Chute packing methods, and certainly checking while bagging the main, to see that your "cocked PC " ,, didn't manage to UN COCK itself....are important parts of a pack job,,, No matter WHO is doing it... Cause THAT happens a lot more often than you might think...
Always check for "color in the window" not only WHEN you start,,, but also After the canopy is bagged...
good luck

jmy
A 3914
D 12122


(This post was edited by jimmytavino on Oct 2, 2010, 7:13 AM)


Sangi

Oct 2, 2010, 7:11 AM
Post #17 of 90 (4503 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] Pilot Chute Nightmare [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Jumping with camera at #138? What do you expect?

Aaaaaaand here we go, the retarded dorkzoners typical comment.

Go back and play with your snowballs.


jakee  (C License)

Oct 2, 2010, 7:14 AM
Post #18 of 90 (4498 views)
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Re: [CornishChris] Pilot Chute Nightmare [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Training, at least mine, says that if you have anything out (i.e. you PC) then you cutaway before deploying reserve and I would be interested on theories about how that would have ended up.

Well, in this particular mal, it wouldn't have made any difference to the PC's entangling, or the main and reserve containers opening at roughly the sme time. and then he might have ended up with choked off reserve canopy entangled in the cutaway main risers. TBH though, who knows? Once you're at that point you're rolling the dice either way.

In reply to:
Personally I would have tried to pull the pin with the bridle by hand.

That's what I did with a knotted PC on a wingsuit jump a few years back. Again, it's not perfect, you could still conceivably be making things worse, but it worked fine for me.


castle_bravo  (C License)

Oct 2, 2010, 7:31 AM
Post #19 of 90 (4485 views)
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Re: [jimmytavino] Pilot Chute Nightmare [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
WAS there any editing done here?? WHEN did the main Bag get out!!???
was it before or I think,,,,, AFTER the reserve pull???

The situation was as follows (this isnt 100% just my ideas):
1. main PC (it was cocked btw)entangles with bridle and therefore flies upside-down(thus no drag).
2. Attempted to a) catch bridle and pull pin via bridle by hand - attempt failed. b)hit container with elbow(been told it may help with pc in tow situations) - no use
3.since no main/or main d-bag out decided to go straight for reserve.
4.Reserve pc tangles with main pc
5. Since reserve pc entanglement with main pc ended up being by the bridle (I guess) - the drag from partially inflated reserve pc was transferred via entanglement to the main bridle and was sufficient to pull the main pin.
6. Main d-bag exits the container, reaches line stretch, reserve freebag(due to entanglement I suppose) follows main and lodges in twisted main lines.
7. Reserve freebag comes down as I kick it out from twists.
8. Reserve freebag is placed under armpit and held there until landing (thats why I couldnt reach for toggles until very late in the landing sequence)


jimmytavino  (A 3914)

Oct 2, 2010, 7:38 AM
Post #20 of 90 (4481 views)
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Re: [castle_bravo] Pilot Chute Nightmare [In reply to] Can't Post

excellent reply.
thanks
jmy
o[:-)


fasted3  (D 30104)

Oct 2, 2010, 8:21 AM
Post #21 of 90 (4449 views)
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Re: [Sangi] Pilot Chute Nightmare [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Aaaaaaand here we go, the retarded dorkzoners typical comment.

Thanks for the warning. You should preface all your posts with this.


sundevil777  (D License)

Oct 2, 2010, 8:28 AM
Post #22 of 90 (4447 views)
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Re: [jakee] Pilot Chute Nightmare [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Training, at least mine, says that if you have anything out (i.e. you PC) then you cutaway before deploying reserve and I would be in
terested on theories about how that would have ended up.

Well, in this particular mal, it wouldn't have made any difference to the PC's entangling, or the main and reserve containers opening at roughly the sme time. and then he might have ended up with choked off reserve canopy entangled in the cutaway main risers. TBH though, who knows? Once you're at that point you're rolling the dice either way.

Quite right!

Many are so certain that cutting away from a PC in tow is obviously the right thing to do.

It most certainly is not so clear, and this incident is an example.

This subject has generated many previous threads.


(This post was edited by sundevil777 on Oct 2, 2010, 8:30 AM)


Ronaldo  (D 34728)

Oct 2, 2010, 9:49 AM
Post #23 of 90 (4409 views)
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Re: [CornishChris] Pilot Chute Nightmare [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Training, at least mine, says that if you have anything out (i.e. you PC) then you cutaway before deploying reserve and I would be interested on theories about how that would have ended up. You were in one of the worst positions - a PC in tow.
In reply to:
This is usually what is taught for students mostly because it is the standard procedure for 99% of the malfunctions (you dont want students to learn different procedures and mix them up under stress). Some experienced jumpers opt for not cutting away the main under high speed malfunctions like a PC in tow. This is due to the possibility of having the disconnected risers/ lines entangling with reserve lines/ PC/ bridle, etc. Some people believe there is a higher chance of having a 2 canopies out situation if the risers are still connected and handling with that is preferred than with an entanglement. People have died using both methods so in the end it is just a matter of making an informed decision and sticking with the procedure you have chosen. Our friend survived not cutting away his main but we will never know how the outcome would have been if he had done differently.


DocPop  (C License)

Oct 2, 2010, 10:37 AM
Post #24 of 90 (4373 views)
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Re: [Ronaldo] Pilot Chute Nightmare [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Some people believe there is a higher chance of having a 2 canopies out situation if the risers are still connected...

I'd think that would be the only way to have 2 out.


Ronaldo  (D 34728)

Oct 2, 2010, 1:33 PM
Post #25 of 90 (4328 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Pilot Chute Nightmare [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, the sentence looks redundant. What I was trying to say is that some jumpers believe that if you leave the risers connected, the chances of a 2 out (biplane, side-by-side or downplane) are higher than an entanglement (the tests made by PD many years ago showed that). At the same time, if the risers are disconnected you either get an entanglement or (luckily) clear deployment.
Some believe you have better overall chances if the main is still connected.


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