Forums: Skydiving: Skydiving History & Trivia:
Oldest canopy being jumped?

 


lucky508  (B 15469)

Sep 28, 2010, 1:32 PM
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Oldest canopy being jumped? Can't Post

I was wondering whats the oldest canopy out there that is being jumped occasionally. I know a lot of gear from the 60s gets aired out pretty often. I have a friend who jumps a 1943 dated T-5 every so often. We put it in a military SL H/C with the dial o death and he static lines it out of a C-47. I was right behind him jumping a MC1-1C and when he landed I must have been at 3-4 hundred feet. He had all the drive of a WDI. Can you say PLF? Its pretty cool to jump a WWII canopy out of a WWII aircraft but I said no thanks. The funny thing is that sometime in the past it had a 7 TU mod done to it and was dyed Pink! Somebody must have set it up for their girlfriend in the 60s. Ill find a pic of it and post it when I have time. We call it the pink titty. To put it in perspective this guys favorite canopy is a C-9 with a 4 line release. Hes gonna be 3 shorter soon.


ATW,
Cael


airtwardo  (D License)

Sep 28, 2010, 4:32 PM
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Wink
Attachments: Opens great!.jpg (18.6 KB)


obelixtim  (D 84)

Sep 28, 2010, 4:43 PM
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Re: [lucky508] Oldest canopy being jumped? [In reply to] Can't Post

We used to have an old British X - type Harness and container with a silk canopy with no mods, which would occassionally get jumped, don't know what happened to it.

It was WW2 vintage. It looked good in the air but oscillated like hell from having no mods, landings could be heavy if you caught a downswing.


lekstrom10k  (D 3001)

Sep 28, 2010, 4:51 PM
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Re: [lucky508] Oldest canopy being jumped? [In reply to] Can't Post

 I jumped an all silk 28 foot navy with a 5tu cut in it in 1973 .It was actually older than me made in april 1942 me August 8 1942. I told my darling wife to take as many pictures as possible as it would be the only time ever in the air she got one at line collapse on landing. I thought i was going to kiss my ankles on landing. That was beyond firm and was glad I only got out at 3500. It was worth it though .I still have a Golden Knights 1965 PC I jump ocassionally


Amazon  (D License)

Sep 28, 2010, 6:14 PM
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Re: [lekstrom10k] Oldest canopy being jumped? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I jumped an all silk 28 foot navy with a 5tu cut in it in 1973 .It was actually older than me made in april 1942 me August 8 1942. I told my darling wife to take as many pictures as possible as it would be the only time ever in the air she got one at line collapse on landing. I thought i was going to kiss my ankles on landing. That was beyond firm and was glad I only got out at 3500. It was worth it though .I still have a Golden Knights 1965 PC I jump ocassionally

I jumped a couple canopys older than me way back when in the 70's.. I do have a 28' all white round in the sewing room with a DOM 1953..that I "might" throw in an old 3 pin container I have and jump it for my 60th dirthday for my SOS jumpSmile

Its in really good shape....I am not... that WILL be a water jump.. someplace with warm water. I have a lot of water landings... and I LOVE a big splash over a big THUD any daySlySly


Beatnik  (D 1051)

Sep 28, 2010, 6:15 PM
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Re: [lucky508] Oldest canopy being jumped? [In reply to] Can't Post

The oldest canopy that I heard of being jumped was from a guy in Arizona who has a Russell Lobe. That parachute has to be over 80. Not sure if it is still being jumped or how often. I doubt it is too regularly because of the rarity of it.


BlueSBDeath  (D 10160)

Sep 29, 2010, 8:21 AM
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Re: [Beatnik] Oldest canopy being jumped? [In reply to] Can't Post

I just jumped a 1975 Sierra, see the thread on this same page. The reserve is a 1984 26 foot navy conical.

Good times!!

Arvel


SkydiveJack  (D 6486)

Sep 29, 2010, 10:02 AM
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Re: [BlueSBDeath] Oldest canopy being jumped? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I just jumped a 1975 Sierra, see the thread on this same page. The reserve is a 1984 26 foot navy conical.

Good times!!

Arvel

Cool!

I have a question since you mentioned the 1984 reserve. This is probably more directed to riggers. Is there an official life limit to a reserve or is it a decision made by each rigger based on the condition of the canopy?

I have heard it both ways depending who I was listening to.


lucky508  (B 15469)

Sep 29, 2010, 11:19 AM
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Re: [Beatnik] Oldest canopy being jumped? [In reply to] Can't Post

Beatnik,
what is a "Russell Lobe" canopy?


Premier likestojump  (D License)

Sep 29, 2010, 11:34 AM
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Re: [lucky508] Oldest canopy being jumped? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Beatnik,
what is a "Russell Lobe" canopy?

http://www.flightglobal.com/...1928%20-%200958.html


lucky508  (B 15469)

Sep 29, 2010, 11:51 AM
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Re: [likestojump] Oldest canopy being jumped? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Likestojump. Its amazing that a silk canopy that has been jumped recently. Ive only ever seen one silk canopy. I was asked to pack it in a WWII chest reserve for display only. It was damaged and missing most of the lines. The canopy had a very spongy feeling to it. It was faded to a light caramel color. At least I think it was faded. I dont know what the original color really looked like. Some of the white nylon reserves Ive seen from the 40s and 50s were almost translucent and absolutely beautiful IMO.


ParaShoot  (D 22759)

Sep 29, 2010, 12:45 PM
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Re: [lucky508] Oldest canopy being jumped? [In reply to] Can't Post

At our yearly Vintage weekend event I jumped a purple silk EFA canopy from 1959. It has a T-mod so steerable. Packed with a long cotton sleeve. For such an old canopy the fabric is still very strong and the landing was like most other round canopies.


Beatnik  (D 1051)

Sep 29, 2010, 3:11 PM
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Re: [BlueSBDeath] Oldest canopy being jumped? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I just jumped a 1975 Sierra, see the thread on this same page. The reserve is a 1984 26 foot navy conical.

Good times!!

So far the oldest that I have jumped was from 1953. I have quite a few canopies from the 60's that are good to go and have never had a problem with any of them. There is nothing quite like being under a vintage canopy.


lucky508  (B 15469)

Sep 30, 2010, 7:51 AM
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Re: [Beatnik] Oldest canopy being jumped? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a Jumbo PC from 72 and a MC-3 MKII PC from 71. both great canopies. I had a 67 MK1 PC that was zippy. It has some steering mods on it that made it turn shaprly with 1" of input from full toggles. I sold it after i got my jumbo. I downwinded that one on a 6mph day once. I did a PLF up one side and down the other and had the bruises to prove it. Tongue

Cael


Beatnik  (D 1051)

Sep 30, 2010, 2:18 PM
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Re: [lucky508] Oldest canopy being jumped? [In reply to] Can't Post

Right now I have four PCs amongst the 48 or so rigs I own. One is a Canadian national team canopy and it is minty. I was told it has 80 jumps on it but I am not even sure it has that. The lines are white and the material is crisp. I have never seen a PC in this day that compares.

I never had a really bad landing under a PC but my Para-Sled, that is another story. The first landing I had under it I was told from the spectators on the ground that they could hear the five points of contact in the PLF.


anj4de

Jun 10, 2011, 10:23 AM
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Re: [Beatnik] Oldest canopy being jumped? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi guys..

There is a video on youtube somewhere of a Russian guy jumping a German WWII RZ-20 parachute...at around 2005! Just can't find the link right now.
The RZ series parachutes are really scary, I have a RZ-20 here as well...as a collector's item. Very thin webbing material and the canopy is made of some "Ersatz" silk that feels very strange.

Blue Skies
Uwe


pchapman  (D 1014)

Jun 10, 2011, 12:25 PM
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Re: [anj4de] Oldest canopy being jumped? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Uwe - here's what I found for the RZ-20 jump:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWEEsoXRCBA


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jun 12, 2011, 9:37 AM
Post #18 of 25 (1482 views)
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Re: [anj4de] Oldest canopy being jumped? [In reply to] Can't Post

"
In reply to:
...
The RZ series parachutes are really scary, I have a RZ-20 here as well...as a collector's item. Very thin webbing material and the canopy is made of some "Ersatz" silk that feels very strange."

......................................................................

Rayon?


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jun 15, 2011, 11:17 AM
Post #19 of 25 (1366 views)
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Re: [Beatnik] Oldest canopy being jumped? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The oldest canopy that I heard of being jumped was from a guy in Arizona who has a Russell Lobe. That parachute has to be over 80. Not sure if it is still being jumped or how often. I doubt it is too regularly because of the rarity of it.

.........................................................................

That was probably Weird Wayne Snider (sp?). About a decade ago, SKYDIVING Magazine published a photo of Wayne jumping an ancient, round silk canopy.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jun 15, 2011, 11:19 AM
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Re: [lucky508] Oldest canopy being jumped? [In reply to] Can't Post

"
In reply to:
... Ive only ever seen one silk canopy. I was asked to pack it in a WWII chest reserve for display only. It was damaged and missing most of the lines. The canopy had a very spongy feeling to it. It was faded to a light caramel color. At least I think it was faded. I dont know what the original color really looked like. ...
"

.......................................................................

Caramel was probably its original colour. I suspect that it was made of "second grade" silk .. strong enough (to meet MIL SPEC), but not perfectly white.


sundevil777  (D License)

Jun 24, 2011, 10:06 PM
Post #21 of 25 (1259 views)
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Re: [likestojump] Oldest canopy being jumped? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Beatnik,
what is a "Russell Lobe" canopy?

http://www.flightglobal.com/...1928%20-%200958.html

From the article:

Quote:
Each sort is entirely manually
operated, a jerk on a large release ring freeing the parachute
and also ejecting it from the pack. There are no elastics,
springs or pilot parachutes involved.

Anyone know how that worked?


pchapman  (D 1014)

Jun 25, 2011, 5:16 AM
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Re: [sundevil777] Oldest canopy being jumped? [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Poynters:

"The ripcord led to cones or wire loops in each corner of the back side of the container; the cover wrapped around the canopy and lines and was secured at each corner. After the ripcord released the corners, it pulled a web strap which aided in removing the cover and then another strap under the top fold of the canopy assisted it into the air."

Poynters has a small picture, but it still isn't clear to me just how that works. Possibly the strap inside did a zig zag of sorts through the folded canopy that would tend to move some of the canopy about when yanked. (Rather than just having the strap slide out from between the folds, leaving the canopy undisturbed.) Just guessing.

Still it all seems to be a variation of "dump it in the air canopy first".

Nice find. Pages 0956 to 0959 of that Flight magazine are about Irvin parachutes and Russell parachutes.

P.S.-- Who needs a pilot chute anyway? They seem to be suspicious newfangled things. As quoted in the Irvin part of the report:

"One respect in which it differs in design from some other parachutes, is the attachment of the small pilot parachute which springs out sharply when the rip cord ring is pulled during descent and pulls the large canopy out. But it is by no means necessary for safe functioning. The Irvin will open just as well without its pilot chute, which can be described as a sort of extra safety device. When the question as to its necessity was raised in America, the U.S.A. Air Services decided that if it was not absolutely essential it certainly did no harm and they decided definitely that it should remain.
It speeds the opening of the parachute rather than retards it and thereby allows for safe jumps from very low altitudes."


(This post was edited by pchapman on Jun 25, 2011, 5:27 AM)


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jun 27, 2011, 10:07 AM
Post #23 of 25 (1208 views)
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Re: [sundevil777] Oldest canopy being jumped? [In reply to] Can't Post

"
In reply to:
... a jerk on a large release ring freeing the parachute
and also ejecting it from the pack. There are no elastics,
springs or pilot parachutes involved.

Anyone know how that worked?"

........................................................................

Early PEPs just depended upon wind to blow the canopy out of the container.
Remember that this was long before Leo Valentine invented the "French frog", belly-to-earth method of free-falling stable.
We have subsequently learned that pilot-chutes help round canopies deploy more reliably by holding tension, which helps keep the skirt (lower Lateral Band) level.

Modern spiral spring pilot-chutes were not invented until the Second World War (George Quilter) and were slow in adoption.
For example, the West German Army was still using umbrella type pilot-chutes until 1986 (when I attended their static-line program) and the Chinese Air Force was still buying spring-less pilot-chutes in 1991.


anj4de

Aug 23, 2011, 2:47 PM
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Re: [riggerrob] Oldest canopy being jumped? [In reply to] Can't Post

..."Modern spiral spring pilot-chutes were not invented until the Second World War (George Quilter) and were slow in adoption.
For example, the West German Army was still using umbrella type pilot-chutes until 1986 (when I attended their static-line program) and the Chinese Air Force was still buying spring-less pilot-chutes in 1991."...

The umbrella type pilot chute is still being used in T-10R reserves over here in Germany as of today (08/2011)! And there is no talk going on right now to change that to an M-1A or a MIRPS anytime soon. There are trials going on for a completely new system but until it hits the troops it will be some time...years?

cheers
Uwe


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Aug 23, 2011, 5:08 PM
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Re: [anj4de] Oldest canopy being jumped? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
..."Modern spiral spring pilot-chutes were not invented until the Second World War (George Quilter) and were slow in adoption.
For example, the West German Army was still using umbrella type pilot-chutes until 1986 (when I attended their static-line program) and the Chinese Air Force was still buying spring-less pilot-chutes in 1991."...

The umbrella type pilot chute is still being used in T-10R reserves over here in Germany as of today (08/2011)! And there is no talk going on right now to change that to an M-1A or a MIRPS anytime soon. There are trials going on for a completely new system but until it hits the troops it will be some time...years?

cheers
Uwe

...........................................................................

Hah!
Back in 1986 (when I jumped at the Bundeswher Lufttransporte/Luftlande Schule) they could have claimed that they were just waiting to work the bugs out of their trefoil type static-line rig .... but 25 years later, the German Army needs a better excuse for using out-dated reserve pilot chutes.
Perhaps the answer is static-line main canopies so reliable that they no longer need reserves.

Hint: most of their allies (France, Britain and the USA) have developed static-line main canopies that are 99.99999999 reliable.



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