Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Relative Work:
Poll: Your Average Fallrate

 

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vidiot  (D 2431)

Feb 22, 2003, 3:27 AM
Post #1 of 52 (2676 views)
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Poll: Your Average Fallrate Can't Post

First of all, I'd like to apologize for cross-posting, but I wanted to make sure I reach those only reading the forum of their specific interest.

Maybe you can help: I'm trying to figure out more accurate fallrates for the different disciplines. With all those ProTracks out there, it should be possible to collect a wide sample of average freefall speeds and to calculate an overall avergae freefall speed for the different disciplines.

So, I'd really appreciate if you could state your average fallrate for the different jump types you do, based on your ProTrack readings (TAS), e.g:

RW: 120mph
Freefly: 180mph
Speed: 250mph
Wingsuit: 80mph

I'll summarize and post the results later.


Thanks for your help!
Klaus


(This post was edited by vidiot on Feb 22, 2003, 3:28 AM)


174fps  (C 3060)

Feb 22, 2003, 11:04 AM
Post #2 of 52 (2644 views)
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Re: [vidiot] Poll: Your Average Fallrate [In reply to] Can't Post

Why do you want TAS? not SAS
people jumping in Colorado where the ground is
5000' or so above sea level will record higher speeds
than the same person jumping at Perris near sea level.
the whole point of SAS is to level the playing field.

Andrew
Cool


kallend  (D 23151)

Feb 22, 2003, 1:00 PM
Post #3 of 52 (2637 views)
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Re: [174fps] Poll: Your Average Fallrate [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Why do you want TAS? not SAS
people jumping in Colorado where the ground is
5000' or so above sea level will record higher speeds
than the same person jumping at Perris near sea level.
the whole point of SAS is to level the playing field.

Andrew
Cool

TAS has a precise, scientifically defined meaning. SAS is just an invention of L&B.


vidiot  (D 2431)

Feb 22, 2003, 3:48 PM
Post #4 of 52 (2625 views)
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Re: [174fps] Poll: Your Average Fallrate [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Why do you want TAS? not SAS

If you prefer SAS, post your average fall rates in SAS instead of starting a discussion whether it should be SAS or TAS.

So, what's your average fallrate?

K.


vidiot  (D 2431)

Feb 22, 2003, 3:51 PM
Post #5 of 52 (2623 views)
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Re: [kallend] Poll: Your Average Fallrate [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
TAS has a precise, scientifically defined meaning.

So, what's your average TAS?

K.


SkydiveMonkey  (B 102345)

Feb 22, 2003, 4:02 PM
Post #6 of 52 (2621 views)
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Re: [vidiot] Poll: Your Average Fallrate [In reply to] Can't Post

Your average TAS drops throughout the dive. How can you say?


vidiot  (D 2431)

Feb 22, 2003, 4:15 PM
Post #7 of 52 (2619 views)
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Re: [SkydiveMonkey] Poll: Your Average Fallrate [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Your average TAS drops throughout the dive. How can you say?


So does your SAS. Just give me an average fallrate, SAS/TAS, whatever makes you happy...

I expect the difference between SAS and TAS to be less then the median deviation of the results I'm getting of this poll...

If you want to assure proper numbers state SAS as well of elevation of your reference point and
ground pressure, as well as an height, pressure and temperature profile of your jump.

Whatever you do, just post your average fallrates...

K.


(This post was edited by vidiot on Feb 22, 2003, 4:35 PM)


SkydiveMonkey  (B 102345)

Feb 22, 2003, 4:20 PM
Post #8 of 52 (2617 views)
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Re: [vidiot] Poll: Your Average Fallrate [In reply to] Can't Post

Flat is about 120mph, Sit is about 140mph (SAS) - TAS I don't know about cos I don't use that setting.


vidiot  (D 2431)

Feb 22, 2003, 4:32 PM
Post #9 of 52 (2614 views)
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Re: [SkydiveMonkey] Poll: Your Average Fallrate [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Flat is about 120mph, Sit is about 140mph

Those are still the same numbers you posted hours ago in the freefly forum. Why all the fuzz? Got any numbers for HD, Speed, WS? SAS or TAS, whatever you prefer...


(This post was edited by vidiot on Feb 22, 2003, 4:53 PM)


SkydiveMonkey  (B 102345)

Feb 22, 2003, 4:43 PM
Post #10 of 52 (2610 views)
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Re: [vidiot] Poll: Your Average Fallrate [In reply to] Can't Post

None for HD etc as I don't do them (yet). Not trying to be "smart" as you put it, but I don't have TAS numbers to give you. Smile


vidiot  (D 2431)

Feb 22, 2003, 4:54 PM
Post #11 of 52 (2606 views)
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Re: [SkydiveMonkey] Poll: Your Average Fallrate [In reply to] Can't Post

Who mentioned "Dum^H^H^HSmart"?


vidiot  (D 2431)

Feb 22, 2003, 5:04 PM
Post #12 of 52 (2600 views)
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Re: [vidiot] Poll: Your Average Fallrate [In reply to] Can't Post

Let's try to get back to the original topic: Please post your average fallrates for the different jump types you do, based on your ProTrack readings, e.g:

RW: 120mph
Freefly: 180mph
Speed: 250mph
Wingsuit: 80mph

Please state SAS/TAS, whatever makes you happy...

I'll summarize and post the results later.

Thanks for your help!
Klaus


indyz  (D 28525)

Feb 22, 2003, 7:29 PM
Post #13 of 52 (2583 views)
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Re: [vidiot] Poll: Your Average Fallrate [In reply to] Can't Post

Have you read Gary Peek's report? He did a bunch of jumps with an electronic barograph and made the results available. Many of the jumps have TAS readings, and they all have "SLAS," sea level airspeed, readings. You probably want to keep in mind that Gary is a big guy, so his speed on the solo jumps might be on the high side.


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Feb 22, 2003, 9:08 PM
Post #14 of 52 (2577 views)
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Re: [vidiot] Poll: Your Average Fallrate [In reply to] Can't Post

Even within flat RW it can vary by quite a bit.

I've found that zoo l/o loads sometimes get as low as 110 mph TAS and people -still- wonder why somebody went low. DUH! L/Os listen up, pick up the pace and you'll have fewer people going low!

Slow 4-way in my experience is maybe 118ish, average 4-way is about 120ish and fast 4-way maybe 125ish. It seems to me that the better teams also prefer slightly faster fall rates. I've shot 4-way teams as fast as 135, fat boys though.

My straight down belly range in camera suit is about 98 to 135ish.

5'11 and 235 out the door.

Me in a tracking dive, sweater, BDU pants is about 104.
Me in a tracking dive wearing camera wings is about 90ish.

Me in a sit, sweater & jeans is about 155 to 160.


ltdiver  (D 20506)

Feb 22, 2003, 9:47 PM
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Re: [quade] Poll: Your Average Fallrate [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
My straight down belly range in camera suit is about 98 to 135ish.

So, are you saying that you could 'out float' me now?! Wink

ltdiver


174fps  (C 3060)

Feb 23, 2003, 10:38 AM
Post #16 of 52 (2546 views)
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Re: [vidiot] Poll: Your Average Fallrate [In reply to] Can't Post

From 98 to 124mph SAS( I have been as high as 130 but cant make turns at that speed) depending on who I am jumping with and how much lead I am wearing.
probably 118 average
140 to 145 in a sit. 142 av.
yes I am a bit floaty.


JYorkster  (D 23658)

Feb 23, 2003, 3:55 PM
Post #17 of 52 (2532 views)
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Re: [ltdiver] Poll: Your Average Fallrate [In reply to] Can't Post

I only have RW #'s...

Bounces around mostly between 116-124...I'd say average 119/120 SAS.

Rock


Enrique  (C 32172)

Feb 24, 2003, 8:28 AM
Post #18 of 52 (2500 views)
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Re: [vidiot] Poll: Your Average Fallrate [In reply to] Can't Post

My 4-way team's average is 117 mph. IC and OC are the heaviest (and faster fallers) and the Point and Tail each wear 12 lbs. of weight.


Watcher  (D 24876)

Feb 24, 2003, 5:16 PM
Post #19 of 52 (2466 views)
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Re: [Enrique] Poll: Your Average Fallrate [In reply to] Can't Post

111 to 113. mph. Could go slower but it starts to get mushy with me and tail flying flat I think.


keskeie  (D 26254)

Feb 24, 2003, 9:32 PM
Post #20 of 52 (2450 views)
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Re: [quade] Poll: Your Average Fallrate [In reply to] Can't Post

So is that TAS or SAS? And why do you use what you use, Paul?


Premier faulknerwn  (D 17441)
Moderator
Feb 25, 2003, 9:52 AM
Post #21 of 52 (2429 views)
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Re: [keskeie] Poll: Your Average Fallrate [In reply to] Can't Post

114-120 RW
118-135 Sit
90-100 tracking (in a freefly suit)

all SAS


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Feb 25, 2003, 10:31 AM
Post #22 of 52 (2423 views)
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Re: [keskeie] Poll: Your Average Fallrate [In reply to] Can't Post

Those are all TAS (didn't I say that?).

Anyway, I happen to like TAS because to me, it makes a bit more sense, but I also understand why some other folks like SAS.

TAS is the calculated True Air Speed based on the rate of change in pressure over the time of the freefall samples being taken.

For "Speed" skydiving competitions TAS is used on a leg mount.

SAS is Skydiver Air Speed and is an invention of L&B. It is their attempt to "normalize" the exact same information that was sampled in their TAS calculations but recalculates it as if the entire skydive took place at 4,000 feet above mean sea level on a "standard" day.

There are several advantages of this -- the key one being that in theory you can compare fall rates independent of the DZ you happen to be at.

The problem is that ProTracks don't seem to be mounted uniformly on all skydivers. Some skydivers have their ProTracks mounted on the outside of their helmets and some have them mounted on the inside of their helmets. Well, this is a pretty big deal because the main variable in the SAS calculation is the air temperature. Obviously a sample taken outside a helmet and inside a helmet are going to be quite different.

Anyway, I've been keeping track of my fall rates on a ProTrack for a couple of years now and I record them in my logbook as well. I've gotten pretty good at being able to tell how fast the group I'm shooting is going without even looking at it now. I'm usually not more than 1 or 2 mph off what the ProTrack says, which I think is pretty good since that's just about the limit of the accuracy of any two ProTracks when compared to each other anyway.


(This post was edited by quade on Feb 25, 2003, 10:32 AM)


kallend  (D 23151)

Feb 25, 2003, 11:32 AM
Post #23 of 52 (2415 views)
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Re: [vidiot] Poll: Your Average Fallrate [In reply to] Can't Post

110-120 RW (depends on the group)
180 head down
80 - 85 tracking


vidiot  (D 2431)

Feb 25, 2003, 12:38 PM
Post #24 of 52 (2408 views)
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Re: [indyz] Poll: Your Average Fallrate [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Have you read Gary Peek's report?

Interesting link, thanks!


courage

Mar 15, 2003, 5:54 AM
Post #25 of 52 (2300 views)
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Re: [vidiot] Poll: Your Average Fallrate [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi. Check out Speed Skydiving results at www.hangout.no/speednews. Results are in kph. Males on the left. Females on the right. By the way, we have quit using the leg mount and have been, since November 2000, using the average between two Pro-Tracks, mounted on each side of the hip. The resuls on the top are the best scores in competition since Nov 2000, and the ones below are the best from the 2002 World Cup series.


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