Forums: Skydiving: Wind Tunnels:
How much time?

 


Gators1240  (A 58804)

Aug 21, 2010, 8:23 AM
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How much time? Can't Post

Ok so I'm about to start aff and I know tunnel time will help tremendously. I plan on getting some before I start aff but how much time would really be appropriate before I start?


ebusto  (C 38493)

Aug 21, 2010, 10:41 AM
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Re: [Gators1240] How much time? [In reply to] Can't Post

As much as you can afford.

Or, start with 15 minutes. Try to fly those 15 minutes in an hour block so you have plenty of rest time. Make sure you inform your instructor that you are an AFF student, and they will structure your training appropriately.


Gators1240  (A 58804)

Aug 21, 2010, 10:48 AM
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Re: [ebusto] How much time? [In reply to] Can't Post

Awesome thanks I was planning on 15 minutes prior to starting my aff and then maybe some more while I am going through it. I've heard there are differences between the two so I wasn't sure if doing too much tunnel time prior to actually getting up there would end up being a bad thing.


CornishChris  (C 102981)

Aug 21, 2010, 2:20 PM
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Re: [Gators1240] How much time? [In reply to] Can't Post

None. Personally I think you get more out of both tunnel and AFF if you deal with them seperately. Once you have some jumps you will appreciate the tunnel a whole lot more.

bring flame now.


VanillaSkyGirl

Aug 21, 2010, 7:57 PM
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Re: [CornishChris] How much time? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
None. Personally I think you get more out of both tunnel and AFF if you deal with them seperately. Once you have some jumps you will appreciate the tunnel a whole lot more.

bring flame now.

I actually agree with this, and I LOVE learning new skills in the tunnel. (I even used to work in one!) I've seen many people who begin flying in the tunnel, prior to skydiving. They sometimes prefer the tunnel and have a difficult time wanting to skydive more than tunnel fly, which is not the case with those, who begin by jumping. Since the tunnel is such an easy environment in which to progress without worrying about canopy skills or the weather, it can also be a godsend to many.

It's probably a good idea to begin skydiving, then to add to your skills by getting some tunnel time, after getting licensed. Of course, if you are having flying issues during AFF, you can always do a tunnel session with your instructor or coach to work on skills needed in the sky. Good luck with whatever you choose to do!


(This post was edited by VanillaSkyGirl on Aug 21, 2010, 7:59 PM)


Gators1240  (A 58804)

Aug 21, 2010, 10:41 PM
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Re: [VanillaSkyGirl] How much time? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you for the info. I don't think I could live without actually being in the sky but I plan to use the tunnel to build a solid foundation of belly skills prior to getting out there(as much as 15 minutes will do lol). I think aff will be easier if I have some kind of idea as to how i need to move my biddy in the air


RackJR  (D 27326)

Aug 22, 2010, 12:50 PM
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Re: [Gators1240] How much time? [In reply to] Can't Post

A lot of the stress of beginning skydiving is that you don't know what to do when you leave the airplane. You don't know how to control yourself, and are relying on two other people to control you (not something most adults do, or are comfortable with). If you fly in a tunnel, you'll begin to learn how to control yourself. For most people, a little bit of confidence can go a long way. Knowing that if everything goes wrong, and you lose both instructors, you can still control yourself, stay stable (or regain stability), and deploy your parachute, can be tremendously comforting. Having to figure all that out while you're screaming toward the ground can be a little hectic. Why not build your skill set in a relatively stress free environment? If you don't understand what's going on while in the tunnel, your instructor will take you out the door, explain it to you calmly, and get you back in to try again. Try that on a skydive. :)
Careful under canopy. The ground hurts.


hparrish  (D 25090)

Aug 23, 2010, 4:33 PM
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Re: [RackJR] How much time? [In reply to] Can't Post

Perfect Explanation.......Tunnels make it so that the only stress that is left for AFF Training is dealing with the very normal response of Fear itself. Not performance anxiety.


hookitt  (D License)

Aug 24, 2010, 4:54 PM
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Re: [Gators1240] How much time? [In reply to] Can't Post

As long as the instructors tailor your training for actual skydiving, it will help tremendously.

If you're just in there flying for the heck of it, you will still learn, BUT, there is a tendency to let the student fly rather flat.

While that is very safe in the tunnel, it's very annoying to an AFF instructor in the skyWink A skydiving student needs to arch a bit more than the average brand new tunnel student.


Good luck. Have fun!


Gators1240  (A 58804)

Aug 24, 2010, 5:16 PM
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Re: [hookitt] How much time? [In reply to] Can't Post

Well when I made the reservation I let them know that I will be starting aff soon and will tell them again when I go on Thursday so hopefully they will tailor my tunnel time towards helping me in the sky which I'm sure they will


hparrish  (D 25090)

Aug 25, 2010, 10:04 PM
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Re: [Gators1240] How much time? [In reply to] Can't Post

why not pay a tunnel instructor to train you via the AFF syllabis? Nothing says you can't learn AFF in the tunnel first and then in the sky.

Its not uncommon for AFF students to fail a level and have to re-pay for that jump a 2nd or 3rd time until you pass. That can get pretty expensive.

Thats where the tunnel is such a great tool. you can fly 5 minutes straight until you master a skill. In the sky you only have 40-60 seconds per jump to perform and pass that level.


absane  (A 58418)

Aug 26, 2010, 1:21 PM
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Re: [CornishChris] How much time? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
None. Personally I think you get more out of both tunnel and AFF if you deal with them seperately. Once you have some jumps you will appreciate the tunnel a whole lot more.

bring flame now.

I agree. The first time I set foot in a tunnel was after AFF 5. Had I gone to a tunnel before AFF 1, I would have essentially wasted my money because the sensory overload I had during my first jump would have negated any skills I learned at the tunnel. Instead, I got used to the overload, and did 15 minutes in a tunnel. It really helped me as far as stability goes.


absane  (A 58418)

Aug 26, 2010, 1:28 PM
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Re: [hookitt] How much time? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
AIf you're just in there flying for the heck of it, you will still learn, BUT, there is a tendency to let the student fly rather flat.

While that is very safe in the tunnel, it's very annoying to an AFF instructor in the skyWink A skydiving student needs to arch a bit more than the average brand new tunnel student.

Yea... I remember going to the tunnel for the first time and the only way that I could fly in there was flat. It wasn't something I was comfortable with because up until that point, I had the hardest arch you'd see any student flying with. Glad I moved away from that... because my fall rate was ridiculous. At least my instructors thanked me for making their lives a lot easier ;)


Gators1240  (A 58804)

Aug 26, 2010, 2:59 PM
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Re: [absane] How much time? [In reply to] Can't Post

I went today and did ten minutes and I completely understand what you mean about flying flat. If I had any actual arch at all I was on the netting so in order to stay up I had to flatten out a lot. I learned a lot about how to actually control myself in the air though. It was a great experience and I have a whole new respect for how difficult it actually is control yourself. In glad I did it and have somewhat of a foundation to know what I will be doing once I am in the air


SwampGod  (D 27345)

Aug 27, 2010, 12:10 PM
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Re: [Gators1240] How much time? [In reply to] Can't Post

Flying flatter in the tunnel, or arched but on the net are both very acceptable ways to learn how to fly your body. It's ALL body flight. And it all builds confidence and skills, no matter when you do it.

In the sky, we have students arch to a comfortable, stable arch and as instructors match their speed. In the tunnel, we start students with a slower wind speed and then turn it up. Very simply, higher wind speeds can be twitchier and therefore potentially more dangerous. Slower wind speeds require a flatter body and sometimes more extended arm and leg position than AFF students are typically used to, so it can be a little confusing at first if it's not explained that there may be some differences.

When we work on the net, it allows us to isolate the vertical component of body flight and just concentrate on horizontal and rotational motion. This approach reduces the enormous amount of information we're trying to process to more digestible baby steps. Plus, the resistance provided by the net forces people to exaggerate certain moves, which when done in a structured manner can be INCREDIBLY useful. I'll utilize both net-work and resistance training when I'm coaching people in the tunnel at any stage, not just newbies. I'll even use it on myself when I'm trying something new or want to make a particular flight orientation more solid.

The only time I've seen previous tunnel time detract is when the tunnel instructors didn't pay enough attention to leg awareness with a student and the person spent the next couple of jumps backsliding, but that is very rare.

In short (ha!), having worked with people in the tunnel and the air who do their tunnel time after 0 jumps or 20... I echo the sentiment that people who do tunnel time before their first jump are usually more confident in the freefall portion of AFF. This allows them to free their brain up for the technically more demanding job of opening and landing their canopy.

Not that freefall isn't demanding, but truly relaxing can solve most freefall problems. You relax too much and your landing... well... you'll land, I reckon.

All I know is I've taken an inflatable monkey on a mock AFF jump, and it rocked the freefall portion. The landing on the other hand... Tongue

Blue ones-

eli


Ron

Sep 1, 2010, 1:40 PM
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Re: [Gators1240] How much time? [In reply to] Can't Post

I am an AFFI and have many hours in the tunnel as a flier and as a coach.

I used to teach a military program that consisted of about 15 mins of tunnel and then we would START at single JM AFF L4.

So, being an instructor that has instructed normal AFF and been an instructor that has taught tunnel/AFF, I can't agree with those that say that tunnel is wasted before you have some jumps. The students I had that spent 15 mins in the tunnel normally did MUCH better than the students that had no tunnel and went to AFF L1.

For example... there is NO WAY I would take a first timer on a L4 but I have no issue taking a person that has shown the basic skills in a tunnel on a L4.

ANY amount of time will help. It will help cut down on the sensory overload if you are familiar already... Same reason a Tandem can be a good place to start.

10-15 mins should be all you need to have no problem with AFF.


Gators1240  (A 58804)

Sep 5, 2010, 8:37 PM
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Re: [Ron] How much time? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the great advice. I actually ended up doing a bit more tunnel time before aff than I had planned to (26 minutes) and I flew through aff with no problems. Never had to repeat a level and because of the control I learned in the tunnel and aff, on my level 7 we jumped from 13500, and I finished all my TLO's (front loop, back loop, 3-5 second track, left 360, right 360) at about 10500 which was much quicker than I had thought it would have taken. Although it seems flying flat in the tunnel never really happened for me and I have an insane arch which made it difficult for everyone I've jumped with to match my fall rate. I'm doing some tunnel time and coaching now to try and correct that



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