Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Canopy Relative Work:
Learning progression?

 


crotalus01  (B 28932)

Jul 26, 2010, 11:32 AM
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Learning progression? Can't Post

Curious if there is a recommended learning progression for CRW? I recently started doing 2 stacks with an experienced friend, with me docking on him. Super fun and I dont see myself getting tired of it anytime soon, but I am already wanting to learn more - where should I go from here?
Thanks.


crotalus01  (B 28932)

Jul 26, 2010, 9:24 PM
Post #2 of 20 (2016 views)
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Re: [crotalus01] Learning progression? [In reply to] Can't Post

44 views and no advice?
Surely someone has some advice for me. Obviously i am not going to be docking on my buddy and doing 2 stacks forever - should I let him dock on me next? Try and do a side by side? I want to keep it relatively simple and as safe as possible until I have the $$$ to refit my canopy to be more CRW friendly - currently I am flying a Safire 189 with microline, my buddy is flying a F-111 220 with Dacron. Both have trailing PCs. I am having my rigger install 2 to 1s on my risers in the next month so I can use my front risers more effectively. A retractable PC and dacron lines are my next mod.
Any suggestions (other than CRW camp, no money or vacation time for that - have to learn where I am with what I have)....


Premier faulknerwn  (D 17441)
Moderator
Jul 27, 2010, 7:43 AM
Post #3 of 20 (1984 views)
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Re: [crotalus01] Learning progression? [In reply to] Can't Post

Start with center cell rotations - each of you docking on each other and work from there. You can't really retrofit retract pilot chutes on canopies very well. For the cost of a new line set (probably $300 or so) you can easily sell your canopy and pick up a used Triathlon or Spectre which would be more appropriate for CRW.

Once you get on a 7-cell you can practice learning offset docks but you don't want to do end cell docks on 9 cells.

Triathlons are always for sale on dz.com for a good price.


FreeFlyer2100  (D 30975)

Jul 27, 2010, 7:48 AM
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Re: [crotalus01] Learning progression? [In reply to] Can't Post

I would agree that the center rotations and runbacks are the first exercises for a CRW camp. But you really do need to get rid of that canopy, might be why so many views and few replies. CRW is done on 7 cell canopies for a reason and while your 9 cell Safire can teach you about proximity flying and some CRW basics you are really limiting yourself. Get under a 7 cell like Tri, Spectre or Lightning and you will see your skills increase very fast. This may not be the advice you are looking for but CRW is not learned on the internet, it is learned in the air with the right equipment. Good luck and hope you stick with it.


sebcat  (D 22826)

Jul 27, 2010, 12:47 PM
Post #5 of 20 (1956 views)
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Re: [crotalus01] Learning progression? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I am having my rigger install 2 to 1s on my risers in the next month so I can use my front risers more effectively.
What is this?

In reply to:
Any suggestions (other than CRW camp, no money or vacation time for that - have to learn where I am with what I have)....
It's all about priorities. CRW camps are worth it, finding an experienced CRW dog to jump with is worth it, jumping with the proper gear is worth it. Make the money and the time :)

People have died getting entangled in bridles. People have died doing everything right too, but it's always good to have the odds on your side I guess.


sprtdth  (D 4730)

Jul 27, 2010, 8:40 PM
Post #6 of 20 (1931 views)
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Re: [crotalus01] Learning progression? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I am having my rigger install 2 to 1s on my risers in the next month so I can use my front risers more effectively. A retractable PC and dacron lines are my next mod.

For stacks/rotations you don't need 2 to 1's. Riser blocks, yes.

Retract P/C mod $350
Dacron lines $225
Line install $75
Factory type tail pocket $180
Total $830
For a canopy that's not CRW compatable.

That's 2/3 of the way to a brand new Lightning! Think of what you could do with that money with a used Spectre/Tri....
Just my thoughts


ruthers  (D 4468)

Jul 28, 2010, 7:11 AM
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Re: [sprtdth] Learning progression? [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=96395;d=1

Lightning 193 for $400

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=96396;d=1

Lightning 218 for $300, including a set of risers!

They are pretty big, but they are proper CRW canopies and they are damn cheap! No need to turn existing freefall canopies into a dog's breakfast of adapted gear.

If you want to jump with others, a wingloading of around 1.3-1.5 is probably a good place to be. Comments anyone?


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Jul 28, 2010, 11:40 AM
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Re: [sebcat] Learning progression? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I am having my rigger install 2 to 1s on my risers in the next month so I can use my front risers more effectively.
What is this?

2 to 1's are like using a pulley system, usually a ring is installed on the risers with a string run through it from an attachment point below the ring, and the other end has a handle attached. You pull on the handle and you feel about half the normal riser pressure.


chuckbrown  (D 19538)

Jul 28, 2010, 1:04 PM
Post #9 of 20 (1882 views)
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Re: [BillyVance] Learning progression? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
I am having my rigger install 2 to 1s on my risers in the next month so I can use my front risers more effectively.
What is this?

2 to 1's are like using a pulley system, usually a ring is installed on the risers with a string run through it from an attachment point below the ring, and the other end has a handle attached. You pull on the handle and you feel about half the normal riser pressure.

On the other hand, you have to put twice as much input on the front risers.


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Jul 28, 2010, 1:24 PM
Post #10 of 20 (1878 views)
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Re: [chuckbrown] Learning progression? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
I am having my rigger install 2 to 1s on my risers in the next month so I can use my front risers more effectively.
What is this?

2 to 1's are like using a pulley system, usually a ring is installed on the risers with a string run through it from an attachment point below the ring, and the other end has a handle attached. You pull on the handle and you feel about half the normal riser pressure.

On the other hand, you have to put twice as much input on the front risers.

Yeah, that too. Got to be careful what toggles you have in your hands. I loved my hard cased D shaped toggles, easy to let go and grab the other, and go right back. Had them both on the brake lines and 2 - 1's.


crotalus01  (B 28932)

Jul 28, 2010, 7:38 PM
Post #11 of 20 (1854 views)
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Re: [ruthers] Learning progression? [In reply to] Can't Post

I would love to get a Lightning, the problem is not just money but that I also need something I can use for normal freefall - I am NOT taking a Lightning to terminal!
I have a Vengeance 170 that I have about 20 jumps on, but I have decided to wait to fly it again for at least another 200 or so jumps - I never had a problem with it, I can do most of Bill Vons downsize checklist with it, and my instructors told me I would be fine flying it (and I do love it!) but I know for a fact that it is beyond my skillset if the shit hit the fan.
I only have Saturdays off from my job so travel is pretty much out, plus the $$ issue. I am kind of stuck with what I have. I am going to make it as CRW friendly as I can until I can afford a CRW camp and/or canopy. If that means I am limited to doing 2 stacks until then, then I guess I will get really good at docks/rotations :)

Edit to add thanks for all the info and advice!


(This post was edited by crotalus01 on Jul 28, 2010, 7:38 PM)


sebcat  (D 22826)

Jul 28, 2010, 9:17 PM
Post #12 of 20 (1843 views)
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Re: [BillyVance] Learning progression? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you for the explanation.


Premier faulknerwn  (D 17441)
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Jul 29, 2010, 6:49 AM
Post #13 of 20 (1824 views)
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Re: [crotalus01] Learning progression? [In reply to] Can't Post

Then that's your solution - sell the Vengeance and use that money to buy A Triathlon or Spectre. Heck, if you sold both canopies, you could buy a new one.

You've got a perfectly good canopy there that you can't jump for hundreds of jumps - why not sell it and buy an appropriate canopy for what you're doing now?


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Jul 29, 2010, 8:46 AM
Post #14 of 20 (1815 views)
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Re: [faulknerwn] Learning progression? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Then that's your solution - sell the Vengeance and use that money to buy A Triathlon or Spectre. Heck, if you sold both canopies, you could buy a new one.

You've got a perfectly good canopy there that you can't jump for hundreds of jumps - why not sell it and buy an appropriate canopy for what you're doing now?

Agreed. I am sure the Vengeance would be an easy sell. Hell, with a Triathlon, you can do so many things with it - CRW, accuracy, or swoop. It's that versatile. And if you land off, which is often the case on CRW jumps, you absolutely want to be under a Triathlon or similar 7 cell platform to get you down safely in a tight spot.


crotalus01  (B 28932)

Jul 29, 2010, 5:12 PM
Post #15 of 20 (1788 views)
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Re: [BillyVance] Learning progression? [In reply to] Can't Post

Blush Never thought about that, and I have a friend that I am pretty sure would buy it from me for what I paid for it -Thanks Smile
I will be trolling the classifieds for an appropriate 7 cell....


CaTo  (D 81811)

Jul 30, 2010, 12:50 AM
Post #16 of 20 (1771 views)
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Re: [crotalus01] Learning progression? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I will be trolling the classifieds for an appropriate 7 cell....

if you want to be future-crw-proof, I would suggest a PD-Storm


Premier faulknerwn  (D 17441)
Moderator
Jul 30, 2010, 5:11 AM
Post #17 of 20 (1759 views)
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Re: [CaTo] Learning progression? [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually unless someone else there has a storm as well I would recommend not getting a storm. The trim on the storm is so steep that they are imcompatible with anything but other storms.

Triathlons and lightnings and specters are very compatible with each other as well as other canopies.


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Jul 30, 2010, 10:06 AM
Post #18 of 20 (1748 views)
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Re: [crotalus01] Learning progression? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Blush Never thought about that, and I have a friend that I am pretty sure would buy it from me for what I paid for it -Thanks Smile
I will be trolling the classifieds for an appropriate 7 cell....

Cool. Let me know when you get it and we'll plan something and I'll help you. Smile


crotalus01  (B 28932)

Jul 30, 2010, 3:36 PM
Post #19 of 20 (1734 views)
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Re: [BillyVance] Learning progression? [In reply to] Can't Post

Generally speaking, do I want my w/l to be about the same as now - 1.3ish?
If so I should be looking for a 190 - 170 or somewhere in between.
Also is any 7 cell generally okay? I have friends who love their Spectres...


Premier faulknerwn  (D 17441)
Moderator
Jul 30, 2010, 7:03 PM
Post #20 of 20 (1726 views)
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Re: [crotalus01] Learning progression? [In reply to] Can't Post

Yep 1.3ish works very well for CRW. Spectres are very compatible with most everything as are Triathlons so either should work well for you..

W



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