Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
" Flying through the opening"

 


cmejump2  (D 27420)

Jul 15, 2010, 8:03 PM
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" Flying through the opening" Can't Post

Exactly what does "flying through the opening" mean? If during the opening I feel more pressure on my right-side should I add pressure on the right-side? If so, how? Harness shifting or riser input?


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Jul 15, 2010, 8:06 PM
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Re: [cmejump2] " Flying through the opening" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Exactly what does "flying through the opening" mean? If during the opening I feel more pressure on my right-side should I add pressure on the right-side? If so, how? Harness shifting or riser input?
Balance your body, stay even in the harness, hands off the risers.


Floflo

Jul 16, 2010, 2:34 AM
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Re: [cmejump2] " Flying through the opening" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Exactly what does "flying through the opening" mean? If during the opening I feel more pressure on my right-side should I add pressure on the right-side? If so, how? Harness shifting or riser input?

9 times out of ten you will make things worse trying that.
As Phoenix said, have a clean position when pitching, stay even in the harness and let your canopy open on its own. It will make a better job at it than you.


cmejump2  (D 27420)

Jul 16, 2010, 1:46 PM
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Re: [Floflo] " Flying through the opening" [In reply to] Can't Post

So flying through the opening is doing nothing to react to any lobsided pressure being felt?


pchapman  (D 1014)

Jul 16, 2010, 7:21 PM
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Re: [cmejump2] " Flying through the opening" [In reply to] Can't Post

There's a lot more to hash out here.

Some answers have suggested one may be trying to fly oneself through the opening (ie, not be entirely passive), but not be trying to fly the canopy through the opening.

And one has to be very careful with terminology. If told to "stay even in the harness" that could mean trying to keep even pressure on both leg straps. But what if the right side pulls up harder, and the canopy turns off towards the left? What does "stay even" mean? Push down on the right side? Or just keep the pressure balanced, in effect leaning to the left?

I don't have a perfect answer to provide either.

I sort of thought: If the canopy is trying to twist off to one side, one would rather try to let oneself go with it. Trying to physically twist the other way isn't going to help as one has little power to twist the lines, so all one might to is get closer to the lines getting half a twist -- where they touch each other and all resistance to further twisting is lost, and the jumper tends to spin his body around upon completion of the opening.

But while trying to oppose any twisting isn't good, one can try to oppose different pressures on the left and right leg straps, that may indicate the canopy is trying to turn. There one can shift weight onto whatever side is trying to pull up more, to try to keep the risers even. Still, one wants to "go with the canopy" -- if it starts to dart off to the left, you want to be turning left too, to follow the canopy, and not let it get twisted relative to you.

That should provide ideas for further refinement or revision.


Zlew  (D 21616)

Jul 18, 2010, 6:17 PM
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Re: [cmejump2] " Flying through the opening" [In reply to] Can't Post

There are lots of different ideas as to exactly what that means, but I think the basic idea is pretty simple. With high speed, elliptical and or higher wingloaded canopies, your can't just be along for the ride when you toss your PC. On student-ish canopies you can just be along for the ride from PC pitch until slider down and you will most likely be just fine. High performance canopies are very sensitive to body position, harness, riser, and almost any other type of input. Just like you need to fly your landing until the canopy is no longer flying (not just when your feet touch the ground), you might want/need to be aware of what you are doing as soon as you toss your PC.

On my canopy, if I open and one side has more pressure than the other, it absolutely will turn (sometimes violently) in the direction that is more loaded. Usually just getting even or putting pressure on the other side can keep it from doing that, and/or stop the turn/spin during the deployment.


Floflo

Jul 19, 2010, 3:25 AM
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Re: [Zlew] " Flying through the opening" [In reply to] Can't Post

As it has been written here, trying to correct the opening might (Or will on a highly loaded elliptical) give you line twists.
My experience:

- On a Crossfire loaded at 1.8, I used to try to control the opening by using harness and risers. Not that my openings were bad, but I think I was bored because they were long...
I had from time to time (1 out of 10 maybe) an off heading opening, but nothing really violent or problematic. Until someone looked at my openings and told me to just "follow the flow" instead of fighting it. I haven't had an off heading opening since.

- On a Katana, same WL: I wasn't really comfortable during the first openings, had the feeling the canopy wanted to spin while searching. So bad habits came back and I tried to control it, what resulted in a very violent spin and a cutaway on the 10th jump. Looking at the video afterwards, it was obvious that the canopy was opening normally, and the very moment my hand starts to pull (Very gently) on the riser opposite to the turn, the canopy twists and dives like crazy.
So now I just let it open, and, instead of trying to fight it, I follow it where it wants to go. I just try to keep the same pressure on both sides of the harness (What means not to do anything most of the times) and keep my hands on the risers spreading (And not pulling!) them very very gently apart to avoid line twists.
My openings are now very good, with an occasional (1 out of 30?) 90.

So, my advice: Just follow your canopy, don't fight it, by staying even in the harness (What for me means keeping the same pressure on both leg straps and not touching the risers).
Of course, it starts with a good body position when pitching.


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Jul 19, 2010, 6:44 AM
Post #8 of 19 (1965 views)
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Re: [Floflo] " Flying through the opening" [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
and keep my hands on the risers spreading (And not pulling!)

This is what I do. I have all 4 in my hands (2 per hand), just below the toggles, and pull away from the center.


(This post was edited by ianmdrennan on Jul 19, 2010, 6:45 AM)


DocPop  (C License)

Jul 19, 2010, 7:59 AM
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Re: [ianmdrennan] " Flying through the opening" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
and keep my hands on the risers spreading (And not pulling!)

This is what I do. I have all 4 in my hands (2 per hand), just below the toggles, and pull away from the center.

No concerns about getting fingers trapped if it does spin up?

I just started jumping an elliptical and am finding that doing absolutely nothing except remaining symmetrical in the harness with feet and knees together is giving me the best results. (Note: I only have 7 jumps on the elliptical so far).


frost  (D 25011)

Jul 19, 2010, 9:00 AM
Post #10 of 19 (1937 views)
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Re: [Floflo] " Flying through the opening" [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
hands off the risers

Quote:
9 times out of ten you will make things worse trying that.

I don't think that holds any water. I find that controlling the canopy by grabbing both risers with each hand during the opening sequence reduces the off heading openings and/or allows to quickly stop them.


AggieDave  (D License)

Jul 19, 2010, 9:04 AM
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Re: [frost] " Flying through the opening" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
hands off the risers

Quote:
9 times out of ten you will make things worse trying that.

I don't think that holds any water. I find that controlling the canopy by grabbing both risers with each hand during the opening sequence reduces the off heading openings and/or allows to quickly stop them.


I think it holds water for people who try to pull down on the rears to fly the opening instead of pushing the riser groups to maintain the opening sequence.


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Jul 22, 2010, 3:46 PM
Post #12 of 19 (1827 views)
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Re: [DocPop] " Flying through the opening" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:
and keep my hands on the risers spreading (And not pulling!)

This is what I do. I have all 4 in my hands (2 per hand), just below the toggles, and pull away from the center.

No concerns about getting fingers trapped if it does spin up?

Nah, not really. Note where I hold them (pretty low down).
http://www.youtube.com/...#p/a/u/2/WwfTnCybrSo


(This post was edited by ianmdrennan on Jul 22, 2010, 3:46 PM)


DocPop  (C License)

Jul 23, 2010, 8:01 AM
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Re: [ianmdrennan] " Flying through the opening" [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Ian - the video makes it very clear.


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Jul 23, 2010, 11:35 AM
Post #14 of 19 (1731 views)
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Re: [DocPop] " Flying through the opening" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Thanks Ian - the video makes it very clear.
I do even fly my opening with wing suit.Wink


motomike  (D License)

Nov 9, 2010, 4:05 PM
Post #15 of 19 (1492 views)
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Re: [cmejump2] " Flying through the opening" [In reply to] Can't Post

Any thoughts on looking at the canopy when it is opening?

Just started flying Sabre2 loaded at 1.5 and the opening have been anything but predictable... My buddy had the same experiences and he was told to relax and not look at the canopy during opening. I tried it once and seemed to open on heading. (thinking that if your are looking at your canopy you might be unintentional turning harness)

http://www.youtube.com/user/motomiket#p/a/u/2/3_yzFkbmJWk


Throttlebender  (C 39112)

Nov 9, 2010, 4:36 PM
Post #16 of 19 (1479 views)
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Re: [motomike] " Flying through the opening" [In reply to] Can't Post

I was taught to look at the horizon through the entire opening, feet and knees together, legs straight, and hands clasped together at my belt line. So far, it's worked like a charm. Easy on my neck and all but a few have been on heading.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Nov 9, 2010, 9:00 PM
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Re: [Throttlebender] " Flying through the opening" [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
feet and knees together

I'm pretty sure the idea here is to get you to keep your legs symetrical, and if your feet and knees are together, your legs can't help but be symetrical.

One question, how does this feel in your nut/unit area? Sounds like a horrible time to me.

I prefer to have my feet about shoulder width apart, and my knees however far apart they are when my feet are shoulder width apart. As long as you keep your legs (more specifically, your hips) symetrical, you should be able to relax the nutcracker deal with your feet and knees together on opening.

Edit to add - A quick search turned up a quick video.

To me, this looks comfortable, feet and knees together does not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRh2WhzhGsQ


(This post was edited by davelepka on Nov 9, 2010, 9:04 PM)


Dutton  (D 15542)

Nov 10, 2010, 6:10 AM
Post #18 of 19 (1376 views)
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Re: [cmejump2] " Flying through the opening" [In reply to] Can't Post

If you drop a hip while flying your canopy, it will turn in that direction. That is a harness turn. While your canopy is opening and it is shaking back and forth over your head, you will feel pulses in your harness. If you react to that by shifting your hips out of neutral to "steer", when the slider comes down the parachute will turn, sometimes violently.
Keeping your legs together serves to keep you from leaning in the harness during opening. Since your legs are connected permanently to your hips- It is easy just to think about not dropping a hip, keep them level with the horizon or perpendicular to your line of travel.
Grabbing the risers seems to make the deceleration more comfortable for me, but it is a mistake to pull on the rears to influence the opening. On my canopy it will result in an instant violent inflation. If I want to grab something it usually the mudflaps.

Although I like the idea of grabbing my nuts. That usually feels good, too.


Throttlebender  (C 39112)

Nov 10, 2010, 6:31 AM
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Re: [davelepka] " Flying through the opening" [In reply to] Can't Post

That was a fun clipWink

Actually, I arrange my package quite thoroughly and cinch my leg straps tightly so everything is out of the way. I probably overdo it to be honest. Regarldess, it doesn't hurt at all. Does that mean it's a good technique or does that mean I have small balls?Unsure



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