Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Infinity Risers

 


base698  (D 23456)

Jun 24, 2010, 10:25 AM
Post #1 of 17 (2226 views)
Shortcut
Infinity Risers Can't Post

I was having intermittent toggle fires on my Infinity risers used in a Mirage container. It seemed to happen about 1/4 jumps. It was definitely unstowed as it was coming out of the pack tray. The toggles were also NEVER in the top keeper after opening. Sometimes the cat's eye is still through the toggle. I just switched to Mirage risers... I'll just watch the tacking on the hard housing Tongue

Anyone else have that container combo?


ChrisL  (C 35323)

Jun 24, 2010, 1:24 PM
Post #2 of 17 (2156 views)
Shortcut
Re: [base698] Infinity Risers [In reply to] Can't Post

I hate it when my toggles catch on fire.

I've heard good things about FM-200 fire suppression systems. Maybe you could install it on your risers Smile


(This post was edited by ChrisL on Jun 24, 2010, 1:29 PM)


diablopilot  (D License)

Jun 24, 2010, 1:29 PM
Post #3 of 17 (2152 views)
Shortcut
Re: [base698] Infinity Risers [In reply to] Can't Post

Never had a problem till last week. Then twice. I'm keeping an eye on it but haven't found an issue yet. Container is an Infinity, but that shouldn't make a difference.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jun 24, 2010, 2:03 PM
Post #4 of 17 (2134 views)
Shortcut
Re: [base698] Infinity Risers [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Nine times out of ten, here's how that happens - After the toggle is stowed, is jammed so far into the keepers that the two keepers actually get closer together. Now the riser inbetween the keepers is slacked, and the load is actually being taken by the toggle, which is fine on the ground during packing but it becomes a problem on deployment.

On deployment, when the riser takes the load it spreads the keepers back to their original distance apart, and as the lower keeper moves further away from the upper, it pulls the nose out the toggle out of the keeper.

It's funny you mention Mirage in your story, because I first saw this years ago on a set of Mirage risers. I've been jumping Infinity risers for the few years with no problem, but then again I know what to look for.

After you stow your toggles, you can test them by grabbing the riser above and below the toggle, and giving it a good sharp 'tug' to see where the load is. If the toggle moves at all, it was too tight in the keepers.


djmarvin  (D 22292)

Jun 24, 2010, 5:02 PM
Post #5 of 17 (2102 views)
Shortcut
Re: [base698] Infinity Risers [In reply to] Can't Post

Over time the top keeper can "stretch" or "wear". Have your rigger look at it. I just threw a stitch line inside the existing stitch line and that tightened mine up enough that I haven't had the problem since. (it doesn't take much, the new stitch line is immediately next to the exitsting one)


kingbunky  (B 5376)

Jun 25, 2010, 5:24 AM
Post #6 of 17 (2010 views)
Shortcut
Re: [djmarvin] Infinity Risers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Over time the top keeper can "stretch" or "wear". Have your rigger look at it. I just threw a stitch line inside the existing stitch line and that tightened mine up enough that I haven't had the problem since. (it doesn't take much, the new stitch line is immediately next to the exitsting one)

i have a friend with a javelin, had the same problem, and got that fix advice from derek thomas. it worked great!


base698  (D 23456)

Jun 25, 2010, 7:09 AM
Post #7 of 17 (1985 views)
Shortcut
Re: [davelepka] Infinity Risers [In reply to] Can't Post

I was aware of the riser having slack and I watch that on every jump while packing (especially since I was having at least 1 toggle fire a day).


pilot-one  (D 30000)

Jun 25, 2010, 8:21 AM
Post #8 of 17 (1962 views)
Shortcut
Re: [davelepka] Infinity Risers [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
After you stow your toggles, you can test them by grabbing the riser above and below the toggle, and giving it a good sharp 'tug' to see where the load is. If the toggle moves at all, it was too tight in the keepers.

I have almost every jump on Infinity risers and follow this exact procedure on every pack job. I noticed the "slack" early on when I got my first Infinity rig at about 20 jumps and have watched this closely. So far I have never had a toggle fire but I'm pretty sure I will be having one soon now that I've mentioned it.


VTmotoMike08  (D 30399)

Jun 25, 2010, 1:16 PM
Post #9 of 17 (1905 views)
Shortcut
Re: [base698] Infinity Risers [In reply to] Can't Post

Funny that you mentioned it, I had the same thing- infinity risers (on a PD demo) that I put in my Mirage. I have not had a toggle fire in 550 jumps on my javelin risers (in my mirage). I had two in 19 jumps on the katana demo with infinity risers, and I _almost_ chopped them both! I think davelepka got the cause right. No way did I pack it unstowed, I was super careful on packing because it was a demo canopy.

Anyway, I highly recommend javelin risers. I'll never jump infinity risers again. Sure they work most of the time, and the ones that come on the demo canopies are probably spanked, but my javelin risers also have 400- 500 jumps on them and have no problems at all. Infinity must have been asleep when they designed their risers, what could possibly make them think that the oversized, loose loop on the back is a good way to stow the excess lineCrazy. Javelin uses an elastic band- its not rocket science. FYI, I dont use the mirage risers because they are still the cloth loops while javelin puts a stiffiner in the loop that makes it easier to grab with gloves on.


indyz  (D 28525)

Jun 25, 2010, 2:02 PM
Post #10 of 17 (1897 views)
Shortcut
Re: [VTmotoMike08] Infinity Risers [In reply to] Can't Post

And on the other hand, I have well over 1000 jumps on Infinity risers with no issues. I know other companies make great risers as well, but I won't be switching from VSE any time soon.


tetra316  (D 26945)

Jun 25, 2010, 2:08 PM
Post #11 of 17 (1895 views)
Shortcut
Re: [indyz] Infinity Risers [In reply to] Can't Post

As do I. Well, it's more like 1300 jumps on my Infinity risers and not a single brake fire. And my risers are the ones without any keeper on the back.

I think the brake fire issue is more packing method, which can vary depending on your gear.


Martini  (D 23756)

Jun 25, 2010, 10:37 PM
Post #12 of 17 (1861 views)
Shortcut
Re: [VTmotoMike08] Infinity Risers [In reply to] Can't Post

I have lots of riser sets, my Infinity risers, both velcro and non-velcro, are not only my favorites but the ones that I most trust. Second to them are a set of pin-type risers from RWS.


stayhigh  (F 111)

Jun 25, 2010, 10:43 PM
Post #13 of 17 (1859 views)
Shortcut
Re: [VTmotoMike08] Infinity Risers [In reply to] Can't Post

I hate elastic band on javelin and wings risers.
they make the break line fray.

Im getting new mirage but i am selling mirage riser only to get infinity riser.

IMO Javeline and wings create the worst kinds of riser and toggle selection.


floormonkey  (D License)

Jul 12, 2010, 12:18 PM
Post #14 of 17 (1717 views)
Shortcut
Re: [base698] Infinity Risers [In reply to] Can't Post

When I got my new Infinity, I had brake fire issues. JC Colclasure told me to do a better job stowing my excess. No brake/toggle fires since then.

Make sure the bulk of the line can't be used by the slider to push down/release the toggle.


airathanas  (D 29277)

Jul 12, 2010, 12:41 PM
Post #15 of 17 (1698 views)
Shortcut
Re: [floormonkey] Infinity Risers [In reply to] Can't Post

I have had problems with my Infinity risers and toggle fires in the past too. I have an Infinity rig, not a Mirage. it seems like the toggle keepers are too high above the ring on the riser. I had a rigger put a line of stitching along the side of the toggle keepers to make them more snug. I've needed this done twice. I haven't had any problems since then though.


roccoflys  (D 28619)

Jul 12, 2010, 12:44 PM
Post #16 of 17 (1697 views)
Shortcut
Re: [floormonkey] Infinity Risers [In reply to] Can't Post

my first thought also was that the slider could be causing your problem. do you have slider stops on your risers? i also don't like the stretchy excess line stow sleeve- i prefer the ones that vse uses. there are also other ways to stow your excess than by using that sleeve- especially if it gives you issues (i.e. around the top of your toggle)! and i guarantee that no one is sleeping at vse.


coticj  (D License)

Jul 22, 2012, 11:28 AM
Post #17 of 17 (1129 views)
Shortcut
Re: [davelepka] Infinity Risers [In reply to] Can't Post

I started having toggle fires about two weeks ago on Javelin risers in Javelin and Icon Sport containers. I have the problem with the slack in the riser if the toggles are put all the way in. I found that if I straighten the slack (pull the riser) one toggle goes 1cm out from the top stop and the other about 0.5cm. So does this happen because the risers are getting stretched out?

I don't quite understand the solution mentioned (about putting another seam on the upper keepers). So the solution would be to physically reduce the length the how far you can put the toggle nose into the keeper? Wouldn't that make the problem equally bad?

Out of the 5 jumps this weekend I had toggle fire on 3 jumps.



Forums : Skydiving : Gear and Rigging

 


Search for (options)