Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
What deployment method do you have on your primary sport rig?

 

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Poll: What deployment method do you have on your primary sport rig?
BOC throw-out 242 / 87%
Other throw-out 2 / 1%
Pull-out 28 / 10%
Rip-cord 5 / 2%
Other (please describe) 1 / 0%
278 total votes
 
DocPop  (C License)

Jun 22, 2010, 9:08 PM
Post #1 of 63 (3047 views)
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What deployment method do you have on your primary sport rig? Can't Post

I recently ordered a new container with a pull-out and they tried to talk me out of it saying it was old technology.

Just wanted to get an idea of what you guys are using.


diablopilot  (D License)

Jun 22, 2010, 9:10 PM
Post #2 of 63 (3026 views)
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Re: [DocPop] What deployment method do you have on your primary sport rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I recently ordered a new container with a pull-out and they tried to talk me out of it saying it was old technology.

Just wanted to get an idea of what you guys are using.

Who tried to talk you out of it?


DocPop  (C License)

Jun 22, 2010, 9:12 PM
Post #3 of 63 (3018 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] What deployment method do you have on your primary sport rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

The guy at the place I ordered it from. I do not want to get into who it was as that is not really relevant.

He did not succeed as I had already done my research and decided that's what I wanted.


Blink  (C 3275)

Jun 22, 2010, 9:19 PM
Post #4 of 63 (3009 views)
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Re: [DocPop] What deployment method do you have on your primary sport rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have had a pull out for the past 500 jumps, and am looking at getting another rig, with a pull out system.

I absolutely love it and recommend it to everyone.


DocPop  (C License)

Jun 22, 2010, 9:31 PM
Post #5 of 63 (2992 views)
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Re: [Blink] What deployment method do you have on your primary sport rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I have had a pull out for the past 500 jumps, and am looking at getting another rig, with a pull out system.

I absolutely love it and recommend it to everyone.

Any particular reason?


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Jun 22, 2010, 9:35 PM
Post #6 of 63 (2989 views)
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Re: [DocPop] What deployment method do you have on your primary sport rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I have had a pull out for the past 500 jumps, and am looking at getting another rig, with a pull out system.

I absolutely love it and recommend it to everyone.

Any particular reason?
Its no problem if you don;t want to jump with wing suit.
Advantage? You container stay closed as long you pull.
It can be a good point for speed skydiving and FF too.


pilotdave  (D License)

Jun 22, 2010, 9:52 PM
Post #7 of 63 (2965 views)
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Re: [DocPop] What deployment method do you have on your primary sport rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

People that use pullouts are more rare and more loyal than people that use racers. Now racers with pullouts... There may be nothing more rare in the entire sport. Smile

Personally I don't think pros are worth the cons. And I believe the inventor of both systems has posted on here that he prefers throwouts.

But overall, both deployment systems work really really well. So it's not like it makes such a big difference.

Dave


Chrisky

Jun 23, 2010, 2:48 AM
Post #8 of 63 (2859 views)
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Comprehensive pro/con linked here [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Advantage? You container stay closed as long you pull.
Same with a BOC with a pud. The key difference is that one opens the container directly before putting the PC into the wind. The disadvantage is that if one doesnt pull all the way, one is more likely to have a PC hesitation as it may be caught in the burble.

But read this, excellent thread on the subject:

This thread contains Bill Booths' post on the subject.


(This post was edited by Chrisky on Jun 23, 2010, 4:37 AM)


Beatnik  (D 1051)

Jun 23, 2010, 4:02 AM
Post #9 of 63 (2817 views)
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Re: [pilotdave] What deployment method do you have on your primary sport rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
And I believe the inventor of both systems has posted on here that he prefers throwouts.

I may be wrong but I believe the systems were invented by different people and the pullout was mainly a system against horseshoes.

To the OP, did they also tell you that throw outs were old technology? Considering they came out before the pull out.


piisfish

Jun 23, 2010, 5:22 AM
Post #10 of 63 (2782 views)
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Re: [DocPop] What deployment method do you have on your primary sport rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

i use a BOC throwout , and my guess is JohnRich is the one who voted "ripcord" Laugh


councilman24  (D 8631)

Jun 23, 2010, 5:46 AM
Post #11 of 63 (2773 views)
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Re: [DocPop] What deployment method do you have on your primary sport rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

Nobody has posted yet that was around in the 80's and 90's. Pull outs went through even worse growing pains than throw outs. Throw outs went through twisted belly bands, loops of bridle with an elastic loop for closing, ROL cordura pockets, spandex pockets, front of leg strap pockets, etc. When we got curved pins and BOC spandex/elastic most of the problems were solved.

Pullouts had lots of problems with floating puds. It took almost until the 2000's to come up with handles that stayed put and could still be pulled. Many of the reserve rides I packed back then were lost handles or hard pulls. Also pull outs had/have the ability to be packed by the used in a no pull possible configuration by loading the PC before the pin. In addition, unless there was a group of pull out users on a DZ there often were many of the instructors and even riggers who were unfamiliar with it. Also there were more variations on handle systems than with throwout.

One argument for TO. The PC puts a lot more force on that pin than the jumper can with a pull out handle. Other side is that the jumper controls the container opening.

IF the jumper is well trained on the pull out system, and its a well established secure handle system, and all of the packers the jumper uses knows how to pack it, then a pull out can be successful. But there must be a reason the pull out is a small percentage of the sport, coming out of the 80's and 90's when both systems were changing and evolving.

And pull out uses just have to be more flexible to find that floating handle.Wink TongueAngelic


NovaTTT  (D 17887)

Jun 23, 2010, 6:54 AM
Post #12 of 63 (2729 views)
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Re: [DocPop] What deployment method do you have on your primary sport rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

You're obviously not buying a Racer. Might want to reconsider that. Wink


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jun 23, 2010, 7:11 AM
Post #13 of 63 (2710 views)
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Re: [DocPop] What deployment method do you have on your primary sport rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

 
The councilman beat me to it, but a pull out is OK as long as the rig is small enough (or your arms are long enough) to reach back and place an open hand flat on your pin cover. That's what it takes to retrieve a floating pud and avoid a reserve pull.

Also, as long as you don't mind not using a packer, and not being able to check if your PC is cocked (in the case of a collapsable PC) on a pin check, then go for the pull out.

In all reality, pull out and throw out are about the same in terms of functionality, reliability, problem areas, and maintainence.


JohnRich  (D License)

Jun 23, 2010, 7:32 AM
Post #14 of 63 (2684 views)
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Re: [piisfish] What deployment method do you have on your primary sport rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
i use a BOC throwout , and my guess is JohnRich is the one who voted "ripcord" Laugh

Ha! Actually, that vote was already there when I entered. So now there's two for "ripcord". I wonder who that other dinosaur is?


Blink  (C 3275)

Jun 23, 2010, 7:35 AM
Post #15 of 63 (2681 views)
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Re: [DocPop] What deployment method do you have on your primary sport rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I have had a pull out for the past 500 jumps, and am looking at getting another rig, with a pull out system.

I absolutely love it and recommend it to everyone.

Any particular reason?

Personal preference. I've jumped both, was trained on BOC throw out, and prefer the pull out for a couple reasons:

Eliminates horseshoe malfunctions, the container is open as soon as it's pulled
The one "mulfunction" you can experience is a floating pud, which really isn't a big deal (I've had it twice)
It looks so much better than a giant pouch on the bottom of the container

Obviously this is just how I feel, to each there own.

Also, I believe there is a bias towards throw out because of lack of education. More people have never even heard of a pull out, so when they go to buy a new rig, they get what they're familiar with. When I bought mine, I did some research and talked to instructors who gave me the full scoop. When I first started jumping it, I was the third person at our DZ to have one, now I think the numbers are doubled and I hear people talking about new rigs and considering pull out now that they've seen them around.

Cheers.


DocPop  (C License)

Jun 23, 2010, 7:36 AM
Post #16 of 63 (2676 views)
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Re:What deployment method do you have on your primary sport rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the insights, guys.

I chose a pull-out (on an Infinity I-24SN if it matters) for the following reasons:

1. The lower risk of a horseshoe (I realize this is a compromise as you exchange that risk for the risk of a pud-in-tow).

2. It appears to me, and this will probably cause debate, that it is a more secure and freefly friendly option (no bridle exposed, no risk of spandex becoming saggy and worn-out).

3. I think it has a neater appearance than a BOC.

My friend and mentor has given me instruction on the differences and I have been practicing with his rig for both deployment and packing. i will NOT use packers.


pilotdave  (D License)

Jun 23, 2010, 8:05 AM
Post #17 of 63 (2638 views)
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Re: [Blink] What deployment method do you have on your primary sport rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Eliminates horseshoe malfunctions, the container is open as soon as it's pulled

On a throwout rig, one way to get a horseshoe is when the container opens prematurely with the PC still in the pouch. That can't happen with a pullout. But there are other ways to get a horseshoe that are not eliminated. I'm not sure how much I like the idea of my PC inside my open container and my handle still in place compared to what i'd get with a BOC.

Dave


Blink  (C 3275)

Jun 23, 2010, 8:11 AM
Post #18 of 63 (2629 views)
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Re: [pilotdave] What deployment method do you have on your primary sport rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
On a throwout rig, one way to get a horseshoe is when the container opens prematurely with the PC still in the pouch. That can't happen with a pullout. But there are other ways to get a horseshoe that are not eliminated. I'm not sure how much I like the idea of my PC inside my open container and my handle still in place compared to what i'd get with a BOC.

True, although I've never heard of it happening (not saying it can't, simply saying I've personally never heard/read of it). Also, I'm not sure how every manufacturer secures their PUDs, but the systems I've seen would (highly likely) release when there was any kind of force that would be produce from such a malfunction.

Edit to Add:
I'm not saying BOC is bad, I do occasionally jump one (borrowed gear), and my next rig will likely be BOC just due to popularity on used gear, but once the season is done it'll be converted. :)


(This post was edited by Blink on Jun 23, 2010, 8:13 AM)


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jun 23, 2010, 9:01 AM
Post #19 of 63 (2578 views)
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Re: [DocPop] What deployment method do you have on your primary sport rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

>I recently ordered a new container with a pull-out and they tried to talk
>me out of it saying it was old technology.

It is older technology, but it also works fine. There are differences, as you know; this might be an issue if you use packers a lot.


airtwardo  (D License)

Jun 23, 2010, 10:02 AM
Post #20 of 63 (2537 views)
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Re: [Blink] What deployment method do you have on your primary sport rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
I have had a pull out for the past 500 jumps, and am looking at getting another rig, with a pull out system.

I absolutely love it and recommend it to everyone.

Any particular reason?

Personal preference. I've jumped both, was trained on BOC throw out, and prefer the pull out for a couple reasons:

Eliminates horseshoe malfunctions, the container is open as soon as it's pulled
The one "multifunction" you can experience is a floating pud, which really isn't a big deal (I've had it twice)
It looks so much better than a giant pouch on the bottom of the container

Obviously this is just how I feel, to each there own.

Also, I believe there is a bias towards throw out because of lack of education. More people have never even heard of a pull out, so when they go to buy a new rig, they get what they're familiar with. When I bought mine, I did some research and talked to instructors who gave me the full scoop. When I first started jumping it, I was the third person at our DZ to have one, now I think the numbers are doubled and I hear people talking about new rigs and considering pull out now that they've seen them around.

Cheers.

I have about 1500 jumps on a pull out and liked it, did have a few floating handles over that time time but since I can scratch my ankles without bending over I never had a problem reaching back & tracing the pud.

I was thinking about getting one on my new rig but after reading Booths reasoning, I went with the throw-out. . .

Preventing a horseshoe...never had one, never even seen one live, not a big concern for me. There are a lot of 'reasons' those who like pull outs are so loyal, but overall as Bill B. explained it's dated technology that fixes a near non-existent problem and has as much potential for creating other deployment glitches.


dragon2  (D 101989)

Jun 23, 2010, 12:28 PM
Post #21 of 63 (2472 views)
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Re: [Blink] What deployment method do you have on your primary sport rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
On a throwout rig, one way to get a horseshoe is when the container opens prematurely with the PC still in the pouch. That can't happen with a pullout. But there are other ways to get a horseshoe that are not eliminated. I'm not sure how much I like the idea of my PC inside my open container and my handle still in place compared to what i'd get with a BOC.

True, although I've never heard of it happening (not saying it can't, simply saying I've personally never heard/read of it).

Happened on my DZ a few years back. So now you've heard of one Tongue

Anyway I wouldn't want a pull-out for my regular rig as I jump wingsuit, but for just about everything else a pullout is fine and I think just about every serious CRW team I've seen had pullouts on their rigs. Most people nowaydays tend to just buy a freefly handle for a bit of extra security though. Very important: pullout & packers is not always a good combination Crazy


TheCaptain  (D License)

Jun 23, 2010, 12:37 PM
Post #22 of 63 (2458 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Re:What deployment method do you have on your primary sport rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Thanks for the insights, guys.

I chose a pull-out (on an Infinity I-24SN if it matters) for the following reasons:
.
That is an interesting choice of container size. If I may ask why so small on the reserve tray. I know you can get a PD Optima 143 in that tightly but with the main tray being so large why restrict the reserve size?


pilotdave  (D License)

Jun 23, 2010, 1:10 PM
Post #23 of 63 (2431 views)
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Re: [dragon2] What deployment method do you have on your primary sport rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I think just about every serious CRW team I've seen had pullouts on their rigs

Now don't go confusing the issue with CRW rigs. They're in their own world! At the 2008 USPA nationals I noticed some of them seemed to be jumping a hybrid setup... pilot chute in a BOC, but pullout pin to open the container. Actually ripcord cable from the PC to the closing loop if I remember correctly. But look at the attached photo and decide if you want to take gear advice from those guys. Tongue

Dave


(This post was edited by pilotdave on Jun 23, 2010, 1:12 PM)
Attachments: crw_rigs.jpg (160 KB)


muff528  (D 17609)

Jun 23, 2010, 2:36 PM
Post #24 of 63 (2389 views)
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Re: [dragon2] What deployment method do you have on your primary sport rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
On a throwout rig, one way to get a horseshoe is when the container opens prematurely with the PC still in the pouch. That can't happen with a pullout. But there are other ways to get a horseshoe that are not eliminated. I'm not sure how much I like the idea of my PC inside my open container and my handle still in place compared to what i'd get with a BOC.

True, although I've never heard of it happening (not saying it can't, simply saying I've personally never heard/read of it).

Happened on my DZ a few years back. So now you've heard of one Tongue

Anyway I wouldn't want a pull-out for my regular rig as I jump wingsuit, but for just about everything else a pullout is fine and I think just about every serious CRW team I've seen had pullouts on their rigs. Most people nowaydays tend to just buy a freefly handle for a bit of extra security though. Very important: pullout & packers is not always a good combination Crazy

I noticed at Zhills (where there were a lot of European visitors) during the mid 90's that it seemed that most Europeans preferred pull-out while most Americans used throw-out. Of course there were exceptions.


DocPop  (C License)

Jun 23, 2010, 2:51 PM
Post #25 of 63 (2377 views)
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Re: [TheCaptain] Re:What deployment method do you have on your primary sport rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Thanks for the insights, guys.

I chose a pull-out (on an Infinity I-24SN if it matters) for the following reasons:
.
That is an interesting choice of container size. If I may ask why so small on the reserve tray. I know you can get a PD Optima 143 in that tightly but with the main tray being so large why restrict the reserve size?

My bad - it is an I-23SN.

It is sized for a Optimum 143 and a 135 nine cell main. Is that such an odd combination?


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