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Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not?

 

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Premier RickH  (D 18955)

Jun 21, 2010, 8:04 AM
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Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? Can't Post

I would like to pass on to the skydiving community a lesson that should be learned by all jumpers.

A jumper with approx. 50 jumps was gearing up and getting ready to board the plane, a highly experienced camera person noticed that this jumper had a Go Pro camera attached on top of his helmet. The jumper was questioned about his skill level, the jumper stated that the Go Pro is very small and that in no way will it ever get hung on his risers on opening, so his opinion was that it should not fall under USPA guidelines: of a recommendation of 200 skydives should be performed before flying a camera.
The jumper boarded the plane and performed his skydive. The incident was brought to my attention and the jumper was questioned by me immediately following his jump.
As we were talking I could tell the jumper was visibly nervous, he began to explain to me that after he deployed his parachute he noticed that his chest strap had been misrouted. Lesson learned!
A camera is a DISTRACTION! Like it or not! I asked this jumper how many times he checked his camera to make sure it was on before he left the plane? He said he checked it multiple times. It is obvious that after he geared up, he never once checked himself, before he entered the plane, never checked his gear, while in the plane and before exiting he never checked his gear.....he checked his camera multiple times.
After this incident, I walked around to other low time jumpers and found that their were others with Go Pro cameras.
I have since spoken to all jumpes at our DZ regarding the use of Go Pro cameras, and have made it mandatory tha we adhere to USPA recommendations....even if it is just a Go Pro....it is a camera!


MajorDad  (D 579)

Jun 21, 2010, 8:15 AM
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Re: [RickH] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for posting about this near-miss.

Seems that since these things are small and inexpensive, lots of people are getting them before they should.

The 200 jump recommendation is a good one.

However there will always be those with Mad Skillz who will complain about being held back...

Blue Ones,


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jun 21, 2010, 8:45 AM
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Re: [RickH] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

Opps # 11 logged due to small format cameras. I'm sure there are lots more.
Thanks for posting.


brettski74  (C 3197)

Jun 21, 2010, 10:28 AM
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Re: [RickH] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
the jumper stated that the Go Pro is very small and that in no way will it ever get hung on his risers on opening, so his opinion was that it should not fall under USPA guidelines

Interesting that a guy with 50 jumps thinks that he has the knowledge and experience to decide both why particular recommendations exist and whether or not they should apply to him/her. That almost never happens!


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
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Jun 21, 2010, 10:32 AM
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Re: [DSE] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

>Opps # 11 logged due to small format cameras. I'm sure there are lots more.

Are you keeping a log of these? It would be great to have for the next "I'll just turn it on and forget about it" bumpkin.


likestojump1975

Jun 21, 2010, 11:01 AM
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Re: [billvon] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

alot of them are keeping it in their pockets and waiting until jump-run to snap it on and hit record. that way no one on the ground sees them to ask them about it.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
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Jun 21, 2010, 11:14 AM
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Re: [likestojump1975] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

>alot of them are keeping it in their pockets and waiting until jump-run to
>snap it on and hit record.

Cool. So they're distracted in freefall _and_ jump run.

Had a guy with about 300 jumps on the plane last week doing a solo tracking practice dive. He had a camera on with a .3 lens. Perhaps he was going to film his feet.


Psychonaut  (C License)

Jun 21, 2010, 11:41 AM
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Re: [billvon] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Had a guy with about 300 jumps on the plane last week doing a solo tracking practice dive. He had a camera on with a .3 lens. Perhaps he was going to film his feet.

HAHA! +1


demoknite  (D License)

Jun 21, 2010, 11:44 AM
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Re: [RickH] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
As we were talking I could tell the jumper was visibly nervous, he began to explain to me that after he deployed his parachute he noticed that his chest strap had been misrouted. Lesson learned!

How many skygod/camera gods were on the flightline and didnt notice his chest strap being misrouted? Maybe they were too busy seeing who had the most jump numbers or the sickest camera set up on the lift instead of checking each others gear?

/cynical


jdfreefly  (D 24037)

Jun 21, 2010, 12:04 PM
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Re: [demoknite] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

Why would we spend time checking each other's gear when we could spend that time high fiving each other prior to exit? Next you're going to expect a pin check.

/sarcastic


virgin-burner

Jun 21, 2010, 3:11 PM
Post #11 of 294 (4313 views)
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Re: [jdfreefly] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
As we were talking I could tell the jumper was visibly nervous, he began to explain to me that after he deployed his parachute he noticed that his chest strap had been misrouted. Lesson learned!

How many skygod/camera gods were on the flightline and didnt notice his chest strap being misrouted? Maybe they were too busy seeing who had the most jump numbers or the sickest camera set up on the lift instead of checking each others gear?

/cynical

In reply to:
Why would we spend time checking each other's gear when we could spend that time high fiving each other prior to exit? Next you're going to expect a pin check.

/sarcastic

how bout those that actually have learned to maintain and check their gear for themselves!?

and while we're at it, i dont like ANYONE even put their small finger on my gear, if i dont ask them to; and i wont, unless i think i've forgotten something, or have concerns something got dislodged or whatever.. Crazy


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jun 21, 2010, 3:48 PM
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Re: [billvon] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
>Opps # 11 logged due to small format cameras. I'm sure there are lots more.

Are you keeping a log of these? It would be great to have for the next "I'll just turn it on and forget about it" bumpkin.

Yep...Keeping a log. I'm figuring my "oops" column is around a 3:1 (for every one heard about, there are three that go unreported)


jdfreefly  (D 24037)

Jun 21, 2010, 4:36 PM
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Re: [virgin-burner] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm going to assume that you are not being sarcastic, but if you are my apologies.

While I completely understand this attitude, I really detest it. If you don't have confidence in the people you jump with to adequately and safely give you a gear check then spend some time with them on the ground reviewing it.

When a newer jumper sees you refusing a gear check in the plane they will be that much more likely to do the same. It sets a very bad example.

Also, I'm sure you think that you don't need one, but my experience is that you are wrong. A friend of mine (who was a jumpmaster) came down from a load once and threw his rig on the ground only to have his reserve pilot chute hit him in the face. He thinks the pin got pushed up in the plane and since he too was of the opinion that he didn't need a gear check it was not caught before exit. I've never seen him jump since without getting a gear check from someone else before exiting.

Check your shit, check your friends shit and have your friends check your shit or one of you could be in a world of shit.


airtwardo  (D License)

Jun 21, 2010, 4:52 PM
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Re: [jdfreefly] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

threw his rig on the ground only to have his reserve pilot chute hit him in the face.

Maybe throwing his rig on the ground wasn't such a good idea huh? Wink

I too will give a gear check when asked, but DO NOT like anyone I don't know, or haven't asked... fiddling with my gear when it's on my back.


jdfreefly  (D 24037)

Jun 21, 2010, 5:00 PM
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Re: [airtwardo] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

To be clear, it's never a good idea to just start messing with someone's gear. I just don't like the attitude of not trusting other skydivers to check your gear. If I can't trust you to check my gear, I don't really want to be in the same plane as you.

Edit to stop the highjack: Yes it's a fucking camera!


(This post was edited by jdfreefly on Jun 21, 2010, 5:01 PM)


The111  (D 29246)

Jun 21, 2010, 5:38 PM
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Re: [billvon] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Had a guy with about 300 jumps on the plane last week doing a solo tracking practice dive. He had a camera on with a .3 lens. Perhaps he was going to film his feet.

To play devil's advocate... my first camera jump was a solo wingsuit jump with a .3 lens on my video camera. I had about 400 jumps.

However, back on the other side of the argument: on that same jump I chased a cloud too far (for pretty footage) and almost broke my ankle landing off near lots of tall trees with nasty wind shear.

If you have a new camera setup that you intend to jump with people eventually, I do think it is a good idea to jump it solo first. But it is still a distraction, even then.


(This post was edited by The111 on Jun 21, 2010, 5:38 PM)


virgin-burner

Jun 21, 2010, 5:57 PM
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Re: [jdfreefly] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm going to assume that you are not being sarcastic, but if you are my apologies.

While I completely understand this attitude, I really detest it. If you don't have confidence in the people you jump with to adequately and safely give you a gear check then spend some time with them on the ground reviewing it.

When a newer jumper sees you refusing a gear check in the plane they will be that much more likely to do the same. It sets a very bad example.

Also, I'm sure you think that you don't need one, but my experience is that you are wrong. A friend of mine (who was a jumpmaster) came down from a load once and threw his rig on the ground only to have his reserve pilot chute hit him in the face. He thinks the pin got pushed up in the plane and since he too was of the opinion that he didn't need a gear check it was not caught before exit. I've never seen him jump since without getting a gear check from someone else before exiting.

Check your shit, check your friends shit and have your friends check your shit or one of you could be in a world of shit.

nope, not really.. 'twardo had a good post on it as well!

around here, u're supposed to have stuff checked yourself; poor you if you havent!


ridestrong  (C 38471)

Jun 21, 2010, 6:25 PM
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Re: [virgin-burner] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
i dont like ANYONE even put their small finger on my gear, if i dont ask them to

I'd be pissed if someone just started touching my gear (pin check etc..) without me asking them to. I always do a pre and in-flight gear check myself and will occasionally ask for a pin check if I feel the need. 90% of the time I am the last one to check/adjust my gear and I prefer it that way.


virgin-burner

Jun 21, 2010, 6:31 PM
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Re: [ridestrong] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
i dont like ANYONE even put their small finger on my gear, if i dont ask them to

I'd be pissed if someone just started touching my gear (pin check etc..) without me asking them to. I always do a pre and in-flight gear check myself and will occasionally ask for a pin check if I feel the need. 90% of the time I am the last one to check/adjust my gear and I prefer it that way.

IMHO it should be more like 99%; but good job going there! Smile


pilotdave  (D License)

Jun 21, 2010, 6:42 PM
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Re: [ridestrong] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it's funny that everyone is so afraid of getting their gear touched by anyone else. We all trust each other to know their gear is safe, but if they touch our own, it's the end of the world. What exactly do you think someone might do back there? I mean don't get me wrong, I don't need tandem students playing with my gear, but if a jumper with more experience than me decides there's something they feel the need to check out back there, I'm usually going to be ok with that. It's nice when they ask first, but in a loud jump plane things happen.

This sport requires us to trust each other. When your pin falls out as you climb out, everyone else could pay the price. Every licensed skydiver SHOULD know how to give a gear check. You don't need to trust them all, but you should learn to trust some of em. Our gear is all about the same. Yours (not to anyone in particular) isn't special.

Back on to the topic of this thread, its starting to look like we should be handing out gopros at first jump courses because everyone's going to have one soon enough. In my experience, most of the new jumpers using them don't even know the SIM has any recommendations for camera flying.

I was just talking to an old timer with 2000+ jumps who's been in the sport forever. He told me he tried a gopro for a while just to get some inside video of his own jumps. He found it so distracting that he got rid of it. And yet everyone with 50 jumps doesn't get distracted at all. It's a miracle.

Dave


(This post was edited by pilotdave on Jun 21, 2010, 6:47 PM)


The111  (D 29246)

Jun 21, 2010, 6:55 PM
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Re: [pilotdave] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I think it's funny that everyone is so afraid of getting their gear touched by anyone else. We all trust each other to know their gear is safe, but if they touch our own, it's the end of the world. What exactly do you think someone might do back there?

Exactly. To those who don't like others touching your gear, I challenge you to find ONE documented example where a skydiver was injured/killed because he let another skydiver touch his rig on the plane.


ridestrong  (C 38471)

Jun 21, 2010, 8:02 PM
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Re: [pilotdave] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

I was just talking to an old timer with 2000+ jumps who's been in the sport forever. He told me he tried a gopro for a while just to get some inside video of his own jumps. He found it so distracting that he got rid of it. And yet everyone with 50 jumps doesn't get distracted at all. It's a miracle.

Dave

The youth of today have grown up living their lives with multiple "distractions". I'd go as far as to say that some of them wouldn't know what to do WITHOUT some type of camera on them at all times.

Some people may be distracted by a camera and others may not. Shocked


Premier faulknerwn  (D 17441)
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Jun 21, 2010, 8:05 PM
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Re: [The111] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

Not injured or killed but I've had stuff mucked up. If you jump non-common gear its easy.

Once had a pullout handle loose in the airplane. I asked a friend to stick it back in. He did, but unfortunately shoved it down the BOC pouch that was also on the rig. I noticed that one on jump run!

Multiple times now I have had people tuck the walrus teeth on Racers underneath the bottom flap instead of the top flap (one was even a rigger!) That can possibly cause a container lock if the rig is tight enough. Luckily I always discovered those when reaching back for my own personal gear check in the plane and fixed it myself.

If you jump "non-typical" gear people can screw it up. That's why I'm paranoid.. THey haven't hurt me but they have screwed it up.

(Oh and I have had people try and pull my pilot chute cap off to check the reserve pin too :-)


airtwardo  (D License)

Jun 21, 2010, 8:17 PM
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Re: [The111] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I think it's funny that everyone is so afraid of getting their gear touched by anyone else. We all trust each other to know their gear is safe, but if they touch our own, it's the end of the world. What exactly do you think someone might do back there?

Exactly. To those who don't like others touching your gear, I challenge you to find ONE documented example where a skydiver was injured/killed because he let another skydiver touch his rig on the plane.

I don't want to find any examples...just like I don't want you touching my gear.

Why is that concept so hard to grasp?

1/2 you people can't spot, pack or land without slamming into each other or the ground...yeah I really want yer 'expertise' all over my gear...SlyTongue


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jun 21, 2010, 9:30 PM
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Re: [The111] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
To those who don't like others touching your gear, I challenge you to find ONE documented example where a skydiver was injured/killed because he let another skydiver touch his rig on the plane.

I don't know about anyone being killed, but I do know that an experienced jumper had never seen a bridle routed the way I route it and when pulling my pin cover he pulled my pin. My reserve pin cover is off limits.
FWIW, for the eval jumps I route my bridle like most others, and still had it popped on the ground.
In 11 gear checks yesterday alone, my pin was popped on the ground. No one died when my pin was popped in the plane, but there wasn't enough time to re-close the container in the plane and I wasn't happy about riding back down.

There are those I trust and those I don't. I don't want others touching my gear without first asking (if for no reason other than courtesy). I'd submit many others feel the same. As an examiner, there are jumps where you *have* to trust, and hope nothing happens.

Back to the original post/point...a small format camera is a camera, and of course is a distraction.


(This post was edited by DSE on Jun 21, 2010, 9:37 PM)


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