Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
How many altimeters?

 

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davjohns  (B 36948)

Jun 21, 2010, 8:57 AM
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How many altimeters? Can't Post

My digital altimeter went out during freefall yesterday. My audible worked fine. There was no safety issue. But my landing was not as accurate as I like because I gave myself a larger margin for error given the lack of an altimeter.

I am considering wearing two altimeters on one hand. They are small enough that it shouldn't be an annoyance. I'll use two digitals since the analogs don't register wtih my brain as quickly.

Does anyone else do this?


AggieDave  (D License)

Jun 21, 2010, 9:00 AM
Post #2 of 72 (2192 views)
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Re: [davjohns] How many altimeters? [In reply to] Can't Post

I wear two altis in competition. Beyond that I just wear one, although I don't use an audible anymore. You can also get a mudflap mount for your altimeter, which will eliminate your hand-real-estate problem.

http://www.boneheadcomposites.com/...tem.html?m8:item=503


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Jun 21, 2010, 9:03 AM
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Re: [davjohns] How many altimeters? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it's silly.

And accuracy should be worked on until you don't need the alti at all really - eyeballs are much better once you're low enough. Though with 33 jumps in 2 years, you're better served getting more current. Certainly you aren't using the alti to set up swoops at 33 jumps??

HOWEVER, if 2 alti's make you comfortable, then that's all that matters. Not a bunch of dz.com commentaries.


dgskydive  (C 25738)

Jun 21, 2010, 9:05 AM
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Re: [AggieDave] How many altimeters? [In reply to] Can't Post

I was the opposite. I only used an audible. I realized one day that I never looked at my Alti anymore. I am not recommending that for you or anyone else though.

Just never looked at mine. Set my audible for 4k break off and at pull time.


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Jun 21, 2010, 9:09 AM
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Re: [dgskydive] How many altimeters? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I realized one day that I never looked at my Alti anymore.

I thought the same thing until I took the AFF cert course. I found out I look at it all the time, it just doesn't register in my brain unless what I see is unexpected. Now I recall my checks more clearly not just when it sets off that alarm.

I'd always have both a visual and my pro-track. And that's what I advise. trying to walk the talk here anyway.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jun 21, 2010, 9:12 AM
Post #6 of 72 (2161 views)
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Re: [davjohns] How many altimeters? [In reply to] Can't Post

>I am considering wearing two altimeters on one hand. . . . Does anyone else do this?

No. I land by sight. The only time I look at my altimeter under canopy is if I am curious about what altitude I was open by, or what altitude another jumper is deploying at.

I strongly recommend learning to land 100% by sight. It's a lot safer to keep your eyes out than to spend time (even a little time) looking at an altimeter.


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Jun 21, 2010, 9:17 AM
Post #7 of 72 (2154 views)
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Re: [davjohns] How many altimeters? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
But my landing was not as accurate as I like because I gave myself a larger margin for error given the lack of an altimeter.
You are so funny. How many altimeters does your current canopy requires?Cool


dgskydive  (C 25738)

Jun 21, 2010, 9:51 AM
Post #8 of 72 (2111 views)
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Re: [rehmwa] How many altimeters? [In reply to] Can't Post

I was speaking (not wearing an alti) in terms of 4way or what ever type of RW. If it were a coaching jump or anything dealing with a student, I would wear one just so they see that I am wearing one. Instructing is a different, you need to know when the student did or did not do something.


Ron

Jun 21, 2010, 9:52 AM
Post #9 of 72 (2107 views)
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Re: [davjohns] How many altimeters? [In reply to] Can't Post

As others have said... Learn to land by sight and then use the Alti as a back up.

Alti's fail more often than eyes.

Alti's are normally more accurate, but you should be able to land without using one.


AggieDave  (D License)

Jun 21, 2010, 9:54 AM
Post #10 of 72 (2103 views)
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Re: [billvon] How many altimeters? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
>I am considering wearing two altimeters on one hand. . . . Does anyone else do this?

No. I land by sight. The only time I look at my altimeter under canopy is if I am curious about what altitude I was open by, or what altitude another jumper is deploying at.

I strongly recommend learning to land 100% by sight. It's a lot safer to keep your eyes out than to spend time (even a little time) looking at an altimeter.

You have the experience built up to be able to do that.

Personally I recommend low time jumpers use an accurate altimeter to help them setup their patterns. This is in conjunction with proper awareness and setting yourself up for success in the holding area in regards to the rest of the people on the load. Then you can fly the pattern you planned at the altitudes you want. This helps promote learning accuracy and it also helps promote wings level landings after a long enough final to have the canopy return to neutral flight.

This builds the experience needed to accurately fly an appropriate pattern by using the Mark 1 Mod 0 eye ball only.


(This post was edited by AggieDave on Jun 21, 2010, 9:55 AM)


Fast  (D 28237)

Jun 21, 2010, 9:54 AM
Post #11 of 72 (2105 views)
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Re: [davjohns] How many altimeters? [In reply to] Can't Post

Two is more trouble than it's worth. Learn what site pictures look like and learn to deal with the problem of it dying. What do you do if both of them die? Give up and burn in? Prolly not, so just get a sight reference in your head. you'll be a better skydiver at the end of the day because of it.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jun 21, 2010, 9:59 AM
Post #12 of 72 (2098 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] How many altimeters? [In reply to] Can't Post

>Personally I recommend low time jumpers use an accurate altimeter to
>help them setup their patterns.

Definitely agree here. For the first X jumps, using an altimeter as a reference can get you used to the sight pictures - "turn base at an altitude that looks like this, turn final at an altitude that looks like this."

>This helps promote learning accuracy and it also helps promote wings
>level landings after a long enough final to have the canopy return to
>neutral flight.

I agree, with the caveat that even students must NOT be looking at their altimeters once they turn final; all their attention needs to be on the landing at that point. (Figured you meant that, just wanted to say it explicitly.)


AggieDave  (D License)

Jun 21, 2010, 10:03 AM
Post #13 of 72 (2096 views)
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Re: [billvon] How many altimeters? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I agree, with the caveat that even students must NOT be looking at their altimeters once they turn final; all their attention needs to be on the landing at that point. (Figured you meant that, just wanted to say it explicitly.)

Yes, thank you for clarifying that point. It is one of the paramount requirements for a safe landing!


millertime24  (C 38793)

Jun 21, 2010, 11:49 AM
Post #14 of 72 (2019 views)
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Re: [davjohns] How many altimeters? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
My digital altimeter went out during freefall yesterday. My audible worked fine. There was no safety issue. But my landing was not as accurate as I like because I gave myself a larger margin for error given the lack of an altimeter.

I am considering wearing two altimeters on one hand. They are small enough that it shouldn't be an annoyance. I'll use two digitals since the analogs don't register wtih my brain as quickly.

Does anyone else do this?

I use 4. An Alti-Galaxy on my left hand, a Neptune on my right, an Optima in my ear and the all important MK-I Eyeball. I figure chances of all of these going out in a single jump is next to zero. Its always good too to know one of them doesnt need batteries to work either.


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Jun 21, 2010, 11:52 AM
Post #15 of 72 (2014 views)
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Re: [millertime24] How many altimeters? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I use 4. An Alti-Galaxy on my left hand, a Neptune on my right, an Optima in my ear and the all important MK-I Eyeball. I figure chances of all of these going out in a single jump is next to zero. Its always good too to know one of them doesnt need batteries to work either.

Sure, then you have a collision that smacks your Alti into your Neptune and then the battery in the Optima malfunctions and leaks into your two MK-Is.....

that's why I make chirping noises as I approach the ground and listen to the bounceback to time my flares


pilotdave  (D License)

Jun 21, 2010, 11:57 AM
Post #16 of 72 (2004 views)
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Re: [davjohns] How many altimeters? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd recommend something different. These are just my opinions... Lose the digital altimeter and replace it with a reliable analog altimeter. Once you're comfortable that you can do alright without an altimeter, go ahead and put the digital one back on if you want. The analog altimeter will be waiting in your gear bag for your batteries to die again.

Also, lose the audible. I think relying on an audible altimeter to know when to break off and when to pull is a disaster waiting to happen. Or at least a low pull waiting to happen. Audibles make people lazy about altitude awareness. They don't provide altitude awareness except when they beep. When they don't beep, you aren't altitude aware if you're relying on an audible.

Relying on your eyes is great... when your eyes are trained. That takes time to develop, which is why AFF students are taught to pull if they can't read their altimeter for any reason. No altimeter = no altitude awareness... at least at first.

If you really want an audible, use it as a true backup. Set breakoff and pull altitudes 100 feet low. If you hear them before acting, you weren't altitude aware. But they reminded you before it was too late. If it happens often, its probably a sign that you should move that audible to your pocket for a while and work on altitude awareness.

It's amazing how easy it is to become reliant on an audible. It happened to me a long time ago. I had an audible that stopped beeping at pull time sometimes. I'd break off and then track until it beeped. But one day it didn't beep. My track felt awfully long so I checked my altitude and found myself a little above 2000. Way below where I had planned to pull. After that, having an unreliable audible was a great thing. I learned not to rely on it.

I personally suggest waiting until you have at least 200 jumps to add an audible. Develop good habbits before you destroy them.

Dave


(This post was edited by pilotdave on Jun 21, 2010, 12:01 PM)


millertimeunc  (D 31152)

Jun 21, 2010, 12:00 PM
Post #17 of 72 (1998 views)
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Re: [millertime24] How many altimeters? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
My digital altimeter went out during freefall yesterday. My audible worked fine. There was no safety issue. But my landing was not as accurate as I like because I gave myself a larger margin for error given the lack of an altimeter.

I am considering wearing two altimeters on one hand. They are small enough that it shouldn't be an annoyance. I'll use two digitals since the analogs don't register wtih my brain as quickly.

Does anyone else do this?

I use 4. An Alti-Galaxy on my left hand, a Neptune on my right, an Optima in my ear and the all important MK-I Eyeball. I figure chances of all of these going out in a single jump is next to zero. Its always good too to know one of them doesnt need batteries to work either.

So...your eyeballs are battery powered? My Alti-Galaxy doesn't take batteries, either. Tongue


millertime24  (C 38793)

Jun 21, 2010, 12:02 PM
Post #18 of 72 (1992 views)
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Re: [millertimeunc] How many altimeters? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
My digital altimeter went out during freefall yesterday. My audible worked fine. There was no safety issue. But my landing was not as accurate as I like because I gave myself a larger margin for error given the lack of an altimeter.

I am considering wearing two altimeters on one hand. They are small enough that it shouldn't be an annoyance. I'll use two digitals since the analogs don't register wtih my brain as quickly.

Does anyone else do this?

I use 4. An Alti-Galaxy on my left hand, a Neptune on my right, an Optima in my ear and the all important MK-I Eyeball. I figure chances of all of these going out in a single jump is next to zero. Its always good too to know one of them doesnt need batteries to work either.

So...your eyeballs are battery powered? My Alti-Galaxy doesn't take batteries, either. Tongue

Well technically the brain is nothing more than a series of electrical signals being processed so um yeah I guess. Havent you ever seen the Matrix?Tongue


azureriders  (D 28830)

Jun 21, 2010, 12:40 PM
Post #19 of 72 (1969 views)
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Re: How many altimeters? [In reply to] Can't Post

TWO, one in my right eye socket, the other in my left eye socket; anything more is just redundancy. I do however strongly believe in being redundant so, my eyes are my primary altimeter and I normally wear a wrist mount visual as well, and that is to say that I rely on my eyes first and then possibly on a mechanical device. Sly


airtwardo  (D License)

Jun 21, 2010, 12:45 PM
Post #20 of 72 (1958 views)
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Re: [davjohns] How many altimeters? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
My digital altimeter went out during freefall yesterday. My audible worked fine. There was no safety issue. But my landing was not as accurate as I like because I gave myself a larger margin for error given the lack of an altimeter.

I am considering wearing two altimeters on one hand. They are small enough that it shouldn't be an annoyance. I'll use two digitals since the analogs don't register wtih my brain as quickly.

Does anyone else do this?



no


speedy

Jun 21, 2010, 2:12 PM
Post #21 of 72 (1905 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] How many altimeters? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have always two alitmeters, my neptune and my eyes.

Seems to work for me Smile


Heatmiser  (C License)

Jun 21, 2010, 2:13 PM
Post #22 of 72 (1900 views)
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Re: [speedy] How many altimeters? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I have always two alitmeters, my neptune and my eyes.

Seems to work for me Smile

My DZO needs no altimeter! He waits till he can feel the pressure wave building.ShockedLaugh


airtwardo  (D License)

Jun 21, 2010, 2:24 PM
Post #23 of 72 (1890 views)
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Re: [Heatmiser] How many altimeters? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I have always two alitmeters, my neptune and my eyes.

Seems to work for me Smile

My DZO needs no altimeter! He waits till he can feel the pressure wave building.ShockedLaugh

I just take 2000' of fishing line, put a window weight on one end and slip-knot the other end around the scrotum....toss the weight out the door at exit, pull when yer balls stop hurting!


beowulf  (C License)

Jun 21, 2010, 2:56 PM
Post #24 of 72 (1876 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] How many altimeters? [In reply to] Can't Post

LOL

LaughLaugh

That was a good one!!


virgin-burner

Jun 21, 2010, 3:14 PM
Post #25 of 72 (1863 views)
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Re: [dgskydive] How many altimeters? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I was the opposite. I only used an audible. I realized one day that I never looked at my Alti anymore. I am not recommending that for you or anyone else though.

Just never looked at mine. Set my audible for 4k break off and at pull time.

4k break-off!? and when is your pull-time then, after adequate separation of course? and when is your "oh-shit!!!"-moment!? Crazy


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