Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Freeflying:
Next step after AFF?

 


Ryye  (Student)

Jun 8, 2010, 6:42 AM
Post #1 of 21 (2113 views)
Shortcut
Next step after AFF? Can't Post

Hello everyone. I recently completed my AFF course and am starting to fly solo. I am confident and fluent in my flips and spins and wanted to get a recommendation for the next step. I assume it would be sit flying but I don't want to jump into things too quickly and miss a crucial step in my training.

Any advice you guys can provide would be excellent and I appreciate everything.


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Jun 8, 2010, 9:18 AM
Post #2 of 21 (2075 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Ryye] Next step after AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

Work your license requirements and try a bit of everything - but a 100 jumps or more on your belly is a good idea before dinking around with the other orientations.

Freeflying is fun and includes belly and back, in addition to head up and head down.


Ryye  (Student)

Jun 8, 2010, 11:01 AM
Post #3 of 21 (2049 views)
Shortcut
Re: [rehmwa] Next step after AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, I totally forgot about working on my license requirements, there are many things on there that need to be completed. 100 jumps seems like a lot to do simply belly flying because all I can think about is working on my tracking and maybe perfecting my flips.


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Jun 8, 2010, 11:04 AM
Post #4 of 21 (2046 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Ryye] Next step after AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

It all gets more interesting as you mix it up. "perfecting your flips" really indicates you are just starting. There is a ton to learn yet in all the orientations - enjoy them all.


Skydave103  (D 22664)

Jun 8, 2010, 11:54 AM
Post #5 of 21 (2029 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Ryye] Next step after AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hello everyone. I recently completed my AFF course and am starting to fly solo. I am confident and fluent in my flips and spins and wanted to get a recommendation for the next step.

How about jumping with another belly flier(a good one) and staying on level with them, turn some points, up and down movement, forward and backwards, turning in place with out orbiting (and you are orbiting), arm turns, knee turns, a combo of both.
Thats just the beginning.

everyone is so ready to start freeflying that they never learn the basics of skydiving! Do some 4way RW with a team and you will learn a lot quickly

dave


buff  (D 30567)

Jun 8, 2010, 12:34 PM
Post #6 of 21 (2023 views)
Shortcut
Re: [rehmwa] Next step after AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

The progression as I was told and have followed is:

Proficient in belly then to back.

Profiecient in back then to sit.

Profiecient in sit then to head down.

Every jump is a belly jump in the end. I put about 150+ good RW jumps in the book with 2,3,4-ways before I ever thought about FF. I could go fine on my back but when I tried to sit, well it was a mess. Recovery was on back to keep speed up. I'm approaching 500 jumps and am just now starting to work on head down.


Ryye  (Student)

Jun 8, 2010, 12:56 PM
Post #7 of 21 (2014 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Skydave103] Next step after AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

Being able to fly with a buddy would be amazing, but i'm being told that I am unable to do that until I get my A-license. I suppose this goes hand in hand with what was mentioned about 100 jumps first.

After reading through a few of the posts, sitflying isn't going to happen for a while. I totally agree with the other things mentioned such as flying upside down, knee turns, etc...

I appreciate the advice and it will be fun to get out there this weekend when I get a chance. Thanks again.


Psychonaut  (C License)

Jun 8, 2010, 1:05 PM
Post #8 of 21 (2009 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Ryye] Next step after AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

I would honestly say save your jump ticket if you plan to do a solo.
From here on, except for once in a while, I would always try to be jumping with someone and I would suggest 2 and 4 ways. Yeah bigger ways here and there with more experienced people are fun, but from experience you won't learn much, doing a 2 or 4 way with experience is going to benefit you tons.

And I second the 100 belly jumps before trying anything else. It's not just some number someone chose, but you'll really learn more about your body and how to fly it (even if you don't think so) within those jumps. When I first started sit-flying, after stable I was able to turn 360's without even thinking about it, and I honestly didn't know what exactly I did with my arms to make it happen as it just came almost second nature.


buff  (D 30567)

Jun 8, 2010, 3:34 PM
Post #9 of 21 (1986 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Psychonaut] Next step after AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
And I second the 100 belly jumps before trying anything else. It's not just some number someone chose, but you'll really learn more about your body and how to fly it (even if you don't think so) within those jumps.

+1

Start with 2way belly. You need a reference in the air. Find someone who is profiecient to fall with you. Belly maneuvers translate to other axis flying. You will learn where you look, you will go. Pulling an arm in when flat will barrel roll you, doing it in a sit will cartwheel you but both rotations are around the horizontal axis.

You need that flat experience to understand where your body catches and spills air so that when you go to multi-axis flight, you can understand how to get to where you want to go or do what you want to do. And since everybody starts flat, so must you also.

Let's assume that you know how to "pop up" to get relative to someone when flat flying? Hug the beach ball, dearch and arms out flat, suck up and roll your shoulders down.... Now how do you do it on your ass or head when you are in the 170+ range and the dive time is shortened?

Can you side-slide on your belly and go up-over-under another belly flier? How can you do it in a sit?

It's stuff like this that you get on your belly that makes FF progression easier. And then there is the all important belly skill of TRACKING away from everybody else that the most important belly skill of all. {See very recent incident posts}.

The dark side is fun but not if you are corking or can't move to the campfire.


Ryye  (Student)

Jun 8, 2010, 6:42 PM
Post #10 of 21 (1959 views)
Shortcut
Re: [buff] Next step after AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

A lot of excellent information here and I appreciate you taking the time to write it all out. After reading several of the posts in my thread, I now understand that I have a lot of work to do, and also to have fun while doing it.

I appreciate all of your guys's advice and will definitely take it into consideration. Thanks!


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Jun 9, 2010, 6:23 AM
Post #11 of 21 (1916 views)
Shortcut
Re: [buff] Next step after AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The dark side is fun .

yeah, but he should wait for a bit before starting CrW


FreeFlyer2100  (D 30975)

Jun 17, 2010, 6:50 AM
Post #12 of 21 (1793 views)
Shortcut
Re: [rehmwa] Next step after AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
The dark side is fun .

yeah, but he should wait for a bit before starting CrW

Yeah he should start with proximity flying and then the transition to CRW will be easy Wink


Jacob8259

Jun 22, 2010, 9:14 AM
Post #13 of 21 (1679 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Ryye] Next step after AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

My advice is to get your A license and do a few RW jumps with some experianced persons then after 75-100 jumps talk to some coaches about starting sitfly


GLIDEANGLE  (D 30292)

Jun 22, 2010, 11:52 AM
Post #14 of 21 (1664 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Ryye] Next step after AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

1.  I REALLY dislike the use of the term “graduation” from the AFF program.  It implies completion.  AFF is simply the first phase of study and practice.  Getting to the A-license involves a lot more that just AFF.
 
2.  “simply belly flying” … If it is so simple, how come it takes years, thousands of jumps, and often hundreds (if not thousands) of hours of tunnel time to train the best belly flyers?  By the way… just as most belly flyers can’t freefly well … many freeflyers are mediocre/lousy belly fliers.  If you think belly flying is simple… Go ask the experienced belly flying competitors at your DZ to show you video of a 4 way block move with a vertical component, or of a team turning a handful of points on the hill.  It ain’t easy. 
 
3.  In addition to the skills mentioned in postings above, here are additional important skills to work on during your first 100 jumps:
a.  Spotting
b.  Rear riser turns for both fun and collision avoidance.
c.  Rear riser flares… in case you ever have to land without using brakes.
d.  Rear Riser stalls and stall recovery… see above.
e.  Maximum glide… for returning from long spots.
f.  Flat turns… practice until they are nearly reflexive.  They will come in REAL handy someday.
g.  Landing accuracy… important when your landing area becomes small or cluttered with obstacles. Landing accuracy is also a requirement for licenses A-C.
h.  Landing safely … stand up when you can, PLF when you can’t!  Remember, dirt washes out of a jumpsuit a lot easier than blood.
i.  Packing… save yourself a hunk of cash and learn about your gear.
j.  Take a canopy control course (or two).
 


theonlyski  (D License)

Jun 22, 2010, 12:50 PM
Post #15 of 21 (1653 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Ryye] Next step after AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Being able to fly with a buddy would be amazing, but i'm being told that I am unable to do that until I get my A-license. I suppose this goes hand in hand with what was mentioned about 100 jumps first.

Look around, theres bound to be a coach/d-license holder or two that are going to do either a solo or a two way belly jump sometimes, you can jump with them in small groups (4-way or smaller)

Quote:
6. Students training for group freefall

a. Student freefall training for group freefall jumps must be conducted by either:

1. Student freefall training for group freefall jumps must be conducted by either A USPA Coach under the supervision of a USPA Instructor or;

2. USPA D license holders provided there is a minimum ratio of one D license holder to one student with a maximum of a 4-way.

There is more than likely several people at most DZ's that will jump with you, just gotta ask. (manifest is a good place to start asking)


(This post was edited by theonlyski on Jun 22, 2010, 2:22 PM)


SimonBones  (D 28573)

Jun 22, 2010, 3:44 PM
Post #16 of 21 (1635 views)
Shortcut
Re: [GLIDEANGLE] Next step after AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
many freeflyers are mediocre/lousy belly fliers.

Mediocre/lousy freeflyers are mediocre/lousy belly flyers.

Good freeflyers are good belly flyers.

Excellent freeflyers are excellent belly flyers.

But this is not true the other way around.


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Jun 23, 2010, 8:52 AM
Post #17 of 21 (1600 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SimonBones] Next step after AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
many freeflyers are mediocre/lousy belly fliers.

Mediocre/lousy freeflyers are mediocre/lousy belly flyers.
Good freeflyers are good belly flyers.
Excellent freeflyers are excellent belly flyers.
But this is not true the other way around.

false -

lousy body pilots are generally lousy body pilots in any orientation - true

but being a very good freeflyers absolutely doesn't guarantee any skill on the belly - I know a lot of really good freeflyers that can barely take grips on their belly and I'd recommend they stay on 2-way belly (or smaller) until they get their heads out of their asses.

I also know a LOT of very good HD flyers that can't fly upright to save their lives.

do you think being a great sitflyer guarantees great HD skills and vice versa?

those that truly are excellent at multiple orientations put work into all aspects of flying and are a pleasure to fly with, and they tend to not give in to the stereotypes or bad mouth any type of flying


however - any ability in any orientation certainly gives you more tools in learning to be better in the other orientations (with the right mind set anyway)

skills relate more to mindset and practice than anything else


(This post was edited by rehmwa on Jun 23, 2010, 8:56 AM)


SimonBones  (D 28573)

Jun 23, 2010, 11:11 AM
Post #18 of 21 (1582 views)
Shortcut
Re: [rehmwa] Next step after AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

False -

If you can't fly at all on your belly, you're not a freeflyer.

If you can only sitfly, you're not a freeflyer, you're a sitflyer much the same that if you can only belly fly, you're a bellyflyer.

If someone can only fly on their head and nothing else, than I'd call them a head down flyer, not a freeflyer.

Freeflying is all orientations and axis. All.

If you call yourself a good freeflyer, than you must also be a good belly flyer. It's included.

Quote:
do you think being a great sitflyer guarantees great HD skills and vice versa?

Nope. I think being a great sitflyer means you're a great sitflyer. But if that's all you've got, than you're not a great freeflyer.

There's a reason why competition freeflying includes maneuvers and randoms on belly, back, sit, and head down flying. To master freeflying, one must master all that freeflying encompasses.


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Jun 23, 2010, 12:36 PM
Post #19 of 21 (1574 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SimonBones] Next step after AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

THAT I agree with.

A true freeflyer flies in all orientations.


_flyfree_

Aug 8, 2010, 3:30 AM
Post #20 of 21 (1268 views)
Shortcut
Re: [rehmwa] Next step after AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

hey there,

i started freeflying right after i did my license - so my 30th jump was the first jump of a freefly course - i first learned backflying, then continued with sitfly.

now i have around 150 jumps of which almost 120 jumps are freeflying.

if you want to do freeflying, i'd recommend you to do a course. but as already said before, don't forget about your belly flying skills. do some instructor jumps with an experienced jumper as well to improve at least some levelling and taking grips.

after all skydiving is all about having fun, but also all about being save.


d123  (B 6134)

Aug 9, 2010, 8:50 AM
Post #21 of 21 (1204 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Ryye] Next step after AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey man, most rentals are not freefly friendly. Also, without knowing playing with free-fly you might slide into the next group.
Go tracking alone and see how much you travel. Just track perpendicular to the jump run.
FF also involve hybrids Tongue


(This post was edited by d123 on Aug 9, 2010, 10:37 AM)



Forums : Skydiving Disciplines : Freeflying

 


Search for (options)