Yes I have one in one of my rigs....yes I prefer to jump it.
I have one not incase I am knocked out...I have it incase I do some remakably stupid thing and should have died (which includes putting myself into a situation where I COULD be knocked out)....I have one to give me that extra margin of safety.
But this person didn't pack correctly, and could not pull his reserve...I am glad he is alive, but negligance is what caused this.
thats a bit harsh Ron, OK if he did pack incorrectly, many many ppl have made errors in packing and a lot of those ppl are very highly respected skydivers mistakes happen, unfortunate but true. You just do the best you can and if ALL else fails hope the Cypress doesn't
sorry squeak, I have to agree with Ron on this one. I always pack my own rig just for the sake of safety. I always know what I am jumping every time. I have over 2,000 pack jobs and no malfunctions causing reserve rides. I also have just under 700 jumps. Careless packing is like driving drunk, it isn't an option. Be ever vigilant when you pack a canopy, you never know when a fun jump might turn into a ......"I need to deploy to keep from hitting that goofball below me who tracked up jump run and opened high". That isn't the time for a malfunction, actually it might be the difference of not just saving one life, but two or more.
My reply was to your last post. Can you do those things while unconcious (a good pilot chute will not get you concious, and you can't locate your reserve handle when you're unconcious)? I, too, think that a cypres is for when Murphy is visiting and when everything goes wrong. i.e you're unconcious, centrifugal force disables you from getting to your handles, etc. I don't see why that's a lame excuse for a cyprus. someone knocking you unconcious is not necessarily your fault (bad separation from the guy after you, you don't see him coming from behind you, and boom).
This guy was NOT knocked out. And most Cypres "saves" are people who make a mistake, or just flat screw up.
I can see screwing up and giving yourself a hard pull. I have not done it to myself in 2600 jumps, but I have seen it.
What I cannot understand is "He could not locate his reserve handle".
This person is alive because a bunch of electrons saved his ass....Inspite of this guys best efforts to kill himself.
Factors in this "accident"
1. Either this person or his packer packed his pilot chute badly.
2. This person could not locate a handle that he needed to save his life.
To fix #1...Pay attention when you pack.
To fix #2...Be able to find your handle, or don't jump....did this person make the first main attempt low? Did he spend to much time trying to deloy the main? Why could they not find the reserve handle?....It's been in the pocket all 6 times I have had to use it.
My point is an AAD is a back up.....If you can't save your own life you should look into bowling. I am saying you should quit....but you should really think about the fact that you should have died.
Again....How many "Saves" have been do to the jumper being knocked out vs the jumper doing something stupid?
Right, I think we both are misunderstanding each others' posts. I was under the impression that you were not pro-Cypres as a last backup. But apparently you are. My post was disregarding the incident at the top of the thread, just stating that if you are unconcious your only chance will be a Cypres. But since you see the Cypres as I do, no point in arguing. One "real" cypres save is enough to make it a good thing.
I think it's a perfectly valid argument for AAD's; It's one of the ways you can justify an AAD to yourself (or to nagging people you might respect) without having to admit you aren't perfect. Lots of people who use that argument will never forget to pull; on the other hand, if not for the fear of knocking themselves out, some skydivers would not wear an AAD. noone ever thinks they will not be able to pull *their* handles... If you ever do a jump where you belive you can't get to a handle you are a dumbass... so without this lame argument in favor of AAD's people will die.
I wear an AAD... just in case someone else knocks me out.. because obviously I'm perfect otherwise.... ;) I wouldn't jump if I thought I wasn't going to pull all the necessary handles... Since I believe all skydivers feel this way... and some still go in due to no pulls well I guess some of us aren't perfect.
(This post was edited by dex on Feb 19, 2003, 6:00 AM)
What I cannot understand is "He could not locate his reserve handle".
Second/third hand info:
This guy is an experienced jumper. His pull-out was stuck. He cut away. He couldn't locate his reserve handle. He apperently had just changed gear. His old rig had a metal ripcord. His new rig has a pillow. He apparently kept searching for metal instead of fabric... Cypres saved him.
He was only the first who had a reserve ride at our DZ that day...
You have to define *experienced* 100 jumps? 1000? 10,000? This guy was not *experienced* with a pillow reserve.
In reply to:
His pull-out was stuck.
Why? Did he pack it wrong? If so was he *experienced*?
In reply to:
He couldn't locate his reserve handle. He apperently had just changed gear. His old rig had a metal ripcord. His new rig has a pillow. He apparently kept searching for metal instead of fabric...
So the real story here is:
A guy just got a new rig.. He packed a malfuction with his pilot chute. He just changed from a Metal handle to a pillow, and was not able to find the handle to save his own life. Thank God he had a cool toy that managed to save his life when he could not.
If he had PACKED correctly...no problem here, and no story. If he had PRACTICED the new procedures with the soft handle....No problem, and no story.
I am glad he lived....but he should not have, and it should be noticed that he should have died. Other than buying a cool black box this jumper did nothing to ensure his future existance.
I 'm sorry, are you saying that you cannot get unconcious, so that is a lame excuse for having a cypres???? Getting unconcious is as bad as "shit happens" can get, and it may not even come from a collision. You have a super weird way of thinking, man, if that's what you meant.
No, what I AM saying is that people who say "I have it incase I am knocked out" are using a lame excuse.
The actual chances of being "saved" due to being knocked outis VERY low....has it happend? Yes. Would there be some people who DID get knocked out around if they had them? Yes.
But again MOST CYPRES "SAVES" are from the jumper doing something STUPID! Not being knocked out.
This jumper did something stupid....he was awake.
The "I have it incase I get knocked out" Argument is lame. I bet it is NOT why most people get them.
I for one, have it incase I do something remarkably STUPID. Which CAN include putting myself into a situation where I COULD be knocked out.....
But I am done with this....
Its a device that CAN save you if you are knocked out....But in all probability it will most likely be used to save you after you make some very large mistake...which can include putting yourself into a position that COULD knock you out. Or in this case bad packing and just not getting to the reserve in time.
239 documented "Saves" 7 were collisions. 2.9% 2 were jumpers exiting the A/C and getting knocked out. 0.8% 2 were 2 jumpers getting BOTH shoulders dislocated. 0.8% 1 was a student that spun until blackout. 0.4%
12 Real Saves 5% 10 from being unconcious. 4.1% 2 from shoulder injury 0.8%
12 out of 239 "Saves".....That leaves 227 to "Screwed up big".
See? more "saves" to stupidity than getting knocked out.
Hi Ron I wanted to reply to you but you post too much so, my point is shit happen and who´s fault is it at that moment dose not really matter we can debate that when we standing on the ground (if we made it through) that jump ,I would think that if someone had 2,3 or so cypres activation in the first 100 jump or so should re think about is future in the sport cypres alone would not save the day every time (it is nor it claim to be 100% )but for those time when things go wrong I would like to think that I don´t have to pay with my life for it when so sort machine is there to use. for another point I can see on your profile that you jump what called rocket pocket canopy, from what I´ve seen in the sport 100% of the people who jump those canopy usually swoop them and 95% of those had one close call or more (too low turn hook turn uneven flair line twist ) are they should all die or broken back would be paying just about right for there screw-up .it is not a perfect world all most every one deserve a second chance Amir