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We need a windtunnel in OHIO!

 

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west33freefall  (C 38126)

Mar 31, 2010, 2:52 PM
Post #1 of 49 (4215 views)
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We need a windtunnel in OHIO! Can't Post

So Ohio has over 10 DZs, Pennsylvania has over 10, and Indiana has Over 10 DZs as well. Chicago is with-in a drive. So why is there no wind tunnel around. We have really nice shopping complexes in Columbus on the north east side called Easton and Polaris. Both of these would be prime spots for a windtunnel. Not only would over 30 DZ's have access to a windtunnel, but these prime shoping and tourist areas would ensure profit through first time flyers. I am just trying to see if anyone else thinks someone needs to put one in.


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Mar 31, 2010, 3:46 PM
Post #2 of 49 (4190 views)
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Re: [west33freefall] We need a windtunnel in OHIO! [In reply to] Can't Post

The designer of the AAC Tunnel is juts up the road in Dayton. He has been looking for a group to build one for.

Alpha Mechanical Engineering

Matt


Andy9o8  (D License)

Mar 31, 2010, 3:46 PM
Post #3 of 49 (4190 views)
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Re: [west33freefall] We need a windtunnel in OHIO! [In reply to] Can't Post

Short answer: Wind tunnels are expensive to build, run, maintain and staff; so that makes them risky ventures. Even when the economy is doing well, it's very, very hard to get enough investors and/or financiers together (and get them to stay together!) to fund a wind tunnel and get it built and operating. Given the lackluster economy right now, that's doubly the case, and is likely to remain so.

So don't hold your breath. And don't believe websites that talk about "planned" wind tunnels. If you don't see serious construction actively under way on-site on a daily basis, it ain't gonna happen.


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Mar 31, 2010, 4:12 PM
Post #4 of 49 (4177 views)
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Re: [west33freefall] We need a windtunnel in OHIO! [In reply to] Can't Post

Easton is a poor choice. The "entertainment" is folding up. Gameworks is closing and so did Shadowbox. Its all shopping anymore. Polaris is worse since its mainly indoor anymore and the only lots to build one are far off and there is no other entertainment around it other then clothing and food.

Overall the better spots to look at are near Kings Island in Cinci or near Cedar Point. The issue with those locations is there is not enough of a draw to keep the tunnel flying during the day during the winter with no tourists attending those attractions. Kings Island is the only real option since Cinci is close and Cedar Point is in the middle of no where.

Ohio might have 10 DZ's but only 2 or 3 of them are Turbine and only 1 of them is a multi turbine and none of them are even running an Otter sized plane. Greensburg in Indy has an Otter and that's another draw for the Cinci area. The 182 DZ's just don't have enough jumper population to equal more then one of the turbine DZ's. The ones in Indy are in the same boat. 1 Turbine and its got more experienced jumpers then just about the rest of the DZ's in the state combined. Besides jumpers may buy a lot of time but the profit margins are higher on tourists so its got to be built where tourists are if you want block prices to be cheaper.

Getting the $5 million to build on in this economy is a huge gamble. I know its been looked at and there are some other issues that would need to be worked out before a tunnel could be built anywhere in the state of Ohio.

The safer bet is in Chicago. Somewhere in the lakefront area and the tunnel would be successful on tourists and skydivers could fill the remaining times. Its got easy transportation for people to fly or drive into it and the fares are cheap.


west33freefall  (C 38126)

Mar 31, 2010, 4:19 PM
Post #5 of 49 (4175 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] We need a windtunnel in OHIO! [In reply to] Can't Post

We will also be getting a Casino in the very near future that may or may not be some added potential revenue. It just seems like a decently worthy venture. Ifly Utah doesn't have many DZs in the area minus a few and they stay busy. I am not a business man I would just like to see a windtunnel with-in 2-4hrs drive. Seems to me it would have some potential for revenue. But Like i said I am not a business man. Just a pipe dream.


hchunter614  (B 30368)

Mar 31, 2010, 4:59 PM
Post #6 of 49 (4168 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] We need a windtunnel in OHIO! [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually Sandusky would be a good location. There are at least 3 indoor waterpark resorts that are usually fully booked over the winter months. Not to mention all of the bored skydivers that can't jump during the winter months.


Crystaldek

Apr 1, 2010, 10:46 AM
Post #7 of 49 (4094 views)
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Re: [west33freefall] We need a windtunnel in OHIO! [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok, So I am in the Chicagoland area and my boss was looking for new ways to make money and is really looking seriously at having a wind tunnel out here, but wants to make it a portable one.

Does anyone have any idea at where I would get any info on that and if you think it would be able to generate a profit.

I am a skydiver, but have never really had an opportunity to spend time in one, so I am not sure as to what the revenue could be


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
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Apr 1, 2010, 11:02 AM
Post #8 of 49 (4089 views)
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Re: [Crystaldek] We need a windtunnel in OHIO! [In reply to] Can't Post

Skip the portable and go for a fixed one. Portable means you are having to run a gas or diesel engine to power it and that is a limiter in power and size from what I've gathered. Average Skyventure has 1000+ HP and your largest diesel engine is lucky to put out more then 300 HP. It also means since its an outdoor tunnel that you are at the mercy of the weather and won't be running it during the snowing winter, rain or other bad weather. That is a huge portion of the year in the midwest that you would not be able to run customers. Not only that but historically the non-enclosed portable designs have been unable to cleanly fly freefliers with out needing to add a ton of drag/baggy suits. Since a lot of the current focus on freeflying is VRW and the need to fly fast clean air you would be marketing yourself of of that entire market that is a huge consumer of block time. A recirculating Skyventure design will let you run 24/7/365 if you wanted to.

You could get a cheap portable tunnel (compared to a Skyventure price) but you also would not be meeting the needs of the jumpers that want the tunnel. Having a 16 foot tunnel like XP would be great but even a 12 or 14 foot model would meet almost all the needs for the Midwest.


padraigbrowne  (E 507)

Apr 2, 2010, 4:27 AM
Post #9 of 49 (4050 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] We need a windtunnel in OHIO! [In reply to] Can't Post

For a mobile tunnel this one sounds pretty good

http://www.superflyvwt.com/Unit_Cost.html
http://www.ukskydiving.com/...t_wind_tunnel.htm?c=
250k - 400k
900hp
135mph ( I was using 95mph in Skyventure Manchester last week , 200lbs in tight jumpsuit )


jtnesbitt  (B 30189)

Apr 2, 2010, 7:20 AM
Post #10 of 49 (4033 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] We need a windtunnel in OHIO! [In reply to] Can't Post

Part of the issue could also be taxes. Ohio has a 10% entertainment tax that they try their hardest to apply to damn near everything. I believe people have in fact looked into building one and that was just one more hurdle to overcome.


SKYWHUFFO  (D License)

Apr 2, 2010, 8:18 AM
Post #11 of 49 (4026 views)
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Re: [jtnesbitt] We need a windtunnel in OHIO! [In reply to] Can't Post

If i was looking to build a tunnel (HIN HINT) The first thing i would do is contqact John Suiter go to Bodyflight.net He consults on portables and permnanant tunnels. IT costs you about what i spend on Beer to consult with him. And to top it of he is still probably one of the top three if not the best tunnel flyer in the US. He is the real deal and probably has worked over the numbers location etc in his head.

Also you have a tunnel 3-4 hours south of CINCY at pigeon Forge take a trip there.


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Apr 2, 2010, 10:43 AM
Post #12 of 49 (4010 views)
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Re: [SKYWHUFFO] We need a windtunnel in OHIO! [In reply to] Can't Post

The things you say about John are spot on, but I think Dawn was always faster at the numbers calculatin'Wink

Matt


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Apr 2, 2010, 11:35 AM
Post #13 of 49 (4007 views)
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Re: [jtnesbitt] We need a windtunnel in OHIO! [In reply to] Can't Post

Also word was that the state wanted to regulate the safety on it like a roller coaster or fair ride with inspections, safety precautions, etc. That alone might kill the project since its a non-tethered ride that the state might not sign off on. Unsure


stratostar  (Student)

Apr 3, 2010, 6:59 PM
Post #14 of 49 (3937 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] We need a windtunnel in OHIO! [In reply to] Can't Post

Recert on the river in Newport


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Apr 3, 2010, 7:27 PM
Post #15 of 49 (3934 views)
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Re: [stratostar] We need a windtunnel in OHIO! [In reply to] Can't Post

That would be a great location for a Recerc.
Gets pats the Ohio Tax issues and is close enough to all the other patron locations.

Matt


stratostar  (Student)

Apr 3, 2010, 9:03 PM
Post #16 of 49 (3927 views)
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Re: [matthewcline] We need a windtunnel in OHIO! [In reply to] Can't Post

And it could have a nice view depending on location. And walking distance to the Hofbrauhaus beer garden.


eUrNiCc  (D 28406)

Apr 4, 2010, 2:36 PM
Post #17 of 49 (3887 views)
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Re: [stratostar] We need a windtunnel in OHIO! [In reply to] Can't Post

Why on earth doesn't Chicago have a tunnel yet? it has a large seasonal skydiver population that would keep the tunnel going over the winter & a steady flow of tourists (esp for the midwest).


Andy9o8  (D License)

Apr 4, 2010, 5:12 PM
Post #18 of 49 (3875 views)
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Re: [eUrNiCc] We need a windtunnel in OHIO! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Why on earth doesn't Chicago have a tunnel yet? it has a large seasonal skydiver population that would keep the tunnel going over the winter & a steady flow of tourists (esp for the midwest).

See post #3. Same reason there isn't one in, say, a heavily populated region like the Mid-Atlantic. I think there's finally a new one going up in Texas; but for the most part, until the economy rebounds in a major way, it probably ain't gonna happen.


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

Apr 5, 2010, 2:14 PM
Post #19 of 49 (3805 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] We need a windtunnel in OHIO! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Also word was that the state wanted to regulate the safety on it like a roller coaster or fair ride with inspections, safety precautions, etc. That alone might kill the project since its a non-tethered ride that the state might not sign off on. Unsure


This is an issue as I and a business partner have been looking in to building a tunnel in Ohio for some time now. We are looking at the Kings Island area and I agree it is the one place to build it in Ohio. Skydivers dont make tunnels money.... tourists do with the exception of XP. It would need to be a recirc. tunnel for the cold months and you are talking 5-7 mill easy. Right now it is a HUGE gamble with the economy the way it is. I have looked in to detailed numbers with Skyventure and I think it is something we could pull off but right now it is just too risky. C-bus may have some advantage with O. State being there but we decided that the Kings Island area was best.


hchunter614  (B 30368)

Apr 5, 2010, 2:49 PM
Post #20 of 49 (3792 views)
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Re: [Rstanley0312] We need a windtunnel in OHIO! [In reply to] Can't Post

Why not Sandusky? Cincy only has Kings Island and 1 indoor water resort (Great Wolf Lodge). Sandusky has Cedar Point and 3 indoor water resorts (Great Wolf, Kalahari and Castaway Bay). I think that you could draw quite a bit of business from those indoor water resorts in the winter months. Taking a little trip to the wind tunnel would break up the stay at the resort. Also Chicago is only a 4 hour drive plus you have at least 10 other major metropolatin areas within a couple hour drive. Sandusky is much more of a tourist destination than Cincy is. (But I'd be a happy camper if it was in Columbus - lol - hell I'd be happy if it was in the state)


(This post was edited by hchunter614 on Apr 5, 2010, 2:52 PM)


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

Apr 5, 2010, 3:05 PM
Post #21 of 49 (3785 views)
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Re: [hchunter614] We need a windtunnel in OHIO! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Why not Sandusky? Cincy only has Kings Island and 1 indoor water resort (Great Wolf Lodge). Sandusky has Cedar Point and 3 indoor water resorts (Great Wolf, Kalahari and Castaway Bay). I think that you could draw quite a bit of business from those indoor water resorts in the winter months. Taking a little trip to the wind tunnel would break up the stay at the resort. Also Chicago is only a 4 hour drive plus you have at least 10 other major metropolatin areas within a couple hour drive. Sandusky is much more of a tourist destination than Cincy is. (But I'd be a happy camper if it was in Columbus - lol - hell I'd be happy if it was in the state)

But the population is much greater in Cincy which oiffsets the slightly less tourist business. Also.... Cinci has the Beach water park as well along with an NFL and MLB team. these factors make Cincy a better spot but I do like the N. KY suggestion to skirt the taxes.


SKYWHUFFO  (D License)

Apr 5, 2010, 4:58 PM
Post #22 of 49 (3769 views)
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Re: [Rstanley0312] We need a windtunnel in OHIO! [In reply to] Can't Post

2 tunnels within 3-4 hours of each other. Not too smart. You have to remember Pigeon Forge is just south of Cincy. I would say(of course i am bias because of my location) Indy. Central to everything everyone has mentioned already.


hchunter614  (B 30368)

Apr 5, 2010, 5:31 PM
Post #23 of 49 (3765 views)
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Re: [Rstanley0312] We need a windtunnel in OHIO! [In reply to] Can't Post

But The Beach is only a summer attraction. The 3 water park resorts in Sandusky are indoor and year round with much of their business during the winter months. Therefore you would have tourists year round.


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

Apr 6, 2010, 7:26 AM
Post #24 of 49 (3727 views)
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Re: [hchunter614] We need a windtunnel in OHIO! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
But The Beach is only a summer attraction. The 3 water park resorts in Sandusky are indoor and year round with much of their business during the winter months. Therefore you would have tourists year round.


Still... the population and the people that the sporting events bring in seems to be more substantial IMO.

I have nothing against good ol Sandusky Tongue I love Cedar Point!!


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

Apr 6, 2010, 7:30 AM
Post #25 of 49 (3725 views)
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Re: [SKYWHUFFO] We need a windtunnel in OHIO! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
2 tunnels within 3-4 hours of each other. Not too smart. You have to remember Pigeon Forge is just south of Cincy. I would say(of course i am bias because of my location) Indy. Central to everything everyone has mentioned already.

From what I understand I would not be too concerned about the Flyaway tunnel in Pigeon Forge at all. Also, I would be looking to pull from the states to the north and west more so than the states south of Cincy. I think that the KY jumpers would even pull better to Cincy.

I do love Nap town though..... I may be giving up my season Colts tickets this year Unsure so I will not be there as much.


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