Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
C'mon folks

 


airdvr  (D 10977)

Mar 29, 2010, 1:10 PM
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C'mon folks Can't Post

it's only March and already we've got quite a few fatalities. Let's be careful out there.


emmiwy  (B 33982)

Mar 29, 2010, 1:27 PM
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Re: [airdvr] C'mon folks [In reply to] Can't Post

+1

Thanks for reiterating. I was at a point this weekend where I had to decide whether to jump or not in high winds (15-18mph winds with 22mph gusts). Two of my mentors recommended highly that I not and were happy with my decision not to.

On the same day I had a misrouted chest strap that was caught on the ground before we went up. I feel lucky I learned this lesson to scare me before its too late.

Be safe and blue skies everyone!


kallend  (D 23151)

Mar 29, 2010, 4:25 PM
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In reply to:
it's only March and already we've got quite a few fatalities. Let's be careful out there.

Four in the last 10 days in the US alone. That's 25% of ALL last year's total.Frown And the season has hardly got going at the northern DZs.


labrys  (D 29848)

Mar 29, 2010, 4:45 PM
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Re: [kallend] C'mon folks [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
That's 25% of ALL last year's total

Last year there were 4 before the end of January.


kallend  (D 23151)

Mar 29, 2010, 6:03 PM
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Quote:
That's 25% of ALL last year's total

Last year there were 4 before the end of January.

OK, but the average January lasts more than 10 days.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Mar 29, 2010, 6:10 PM
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Re: [labrys] C'mon folks [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Last year there were 4 before the end of January

Keep in mind that these incidents are in no way related to the calender year. There is no reset button on 12/31 that wipes the slate clean, and gives some sort of 'fresh start'. Grouping them together by year is really just a way to catagorize them.

Which brings me to my next point, unless you can pinpoint some sort of significant change in training, or procedures, there is no reason to believe that the average number of fatalities will change, or at least change to any significant degree from one year to the next. The worst part about a year with very few fatalities (or even two such years in a row), is the average re-asserting itself in the years to come.

Maybe we can buck that trend by using these low numbers, and the fear of the numbers rebounding to maintain the average, as a motivator to really up our game in general. Maybe the low numbers themsleves will be the significant change that will spur everyone to be that much more vigilant in the coming years.

Of course, maybe Bill Booth will prove to be right (again) and we'll just find new and more exciting ways to kill oursleves. That's the more likely outcome, but that previous thought was nice while it lasted.

Cases in point - skydiving while in very poor health (with corrective surgery scheduled to boot), jumping a Stiletto with a wingsuit and possible opening at less than 2.5k, jumping in high and gusty winds with a .7 wingloading, and swooping a small Velo in gusty winds over buildings.

Bill Booth wins again.


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Mar 29, 2010, 8:28 PM
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In reply to:
it's only March and already we've got quite a few fatalities. Let's be careful out there.
Sure, Its our choice.Crazy


Squeak  (E 1313)

Mar 29, 2010, 9:31 PM
Post #8 of 17 (1529 views)
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In reply to:
In reply to:
it's only March and already we've got quite a few fatalities. Let's be careful out there.
Sure, Its our choice.Crazy
a lot of the times yes, it's operator error often, that means CHOICE


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Mar 29, 2010, 11:38 PM
Post #9 of 17 (1502 views)
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Re: [davelepka] C'mon folks [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Cases in point - skydiving while in very poor health (with corrective surgery scheduled to boot), jumping a Stiletto with a wingsuit and possible opening at less than 2.5k, jumping in high and gusty winds with a .7 wingloading, and swooping a small Velo in gusty winds over buildings.

Bill Booth wins again.

A-you don't know Pete opened lower than 2.5k. I have every reason to believe he did. He was open at least 500' higher than the videographer who was in the saddle around 1.8, and in all likelihood much higher than the 500' estimate. Pete was pretty conservative.
B-I'll bet the farm that Pete's situation was medical/health related and not related in any significant way to canopy choice. A hard opening on a Stiletto is not any different than a hard opening on a Pilot. Hard openings (assuming that's what caused his loss of self-ability) come from everything.
That said...it's already not a great year.


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Mar 30, 2010, 3:31 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
it's only March and already we've got quite a few fatalities. Let's be careful out there.
Sure, Its our choice.Crazy
a lot of the times yes, it's operator error often, that means CHOICE
Disagree, attitude or karma isn't a choice.

Quit this sport is a choice.....but not a solution.


kkeenan  (D 22164)

Mar 30, 2010, 7:34 AM
Post #11 of 17 (1398 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] C'mon folks [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quit this sport is a choice.....but not a solution.

Quitting the sport may be a solution for a person. If they don't skydive, then they most likely will not be in a skydiving accident.

Certainly, that is not a solution for the sport, but it could be a solution for the person who quits.


kallend  (D 23151)

Mar 30, 2010, 12:06 PM
Post #12 of 17 (1337 views)
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Re: [davelepka] C'mon folks [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Last year there were 4 before the end of January

Keep in mind that these incidents are in no way related to the calender year. There is no reset button on 12/31 that wipes the slate clean, and gives some sort of 'fresh start'. Grouping them together by year is really just a way to catagorize them.

.

But they may be related to the season. A lot of uncurrent jumpers start jumping again right around now.


labrys  (D 29848)

Mar 30, 2010, 4:30 PM
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Re: [kallend] C'mon folks [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Last year there were 4 before the end of January.

OK, but the average January lasts more than 10 days.

Three of the 4 happened within 3 days. 2 were on the same day. This is just another "average" year so far.


robinheid  (D 5533)

Mar 30, 2010, 4:45 PM
Post #14 of 17 (1243 views)
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Re: [kallend] C'mon folks [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:
Last year there were 4 before the end of January

Keep in mind that these incidents are in no way related to the calender year. There is no reset button on 12/31 that wipes the slate clean, and gives some sort of 'fresh start'. Grouping them together by year is really just a way to catagorize them.

.

But they may be related to the season. A lot of uncurrent jumpers start jumping again right around now.

My goodness, I'm agreeing with my good unmet friend Professor Kallend!

Add to that a key factor I've noticed over the 30+ years I've been doing this: Not only are people generally less current than usual in the March-April time frame, they also forget about the consequences of density altitude changes brought about by warmer temperatures.

Even those who remain generally current during the winter months often make density altitude-related errors by turning too low, flaring too late, etc.

So in addition to all of the other jibber-jabber about giving yourself extra margin until your currency catches up after the winter, there is much to be said for reviewing density altitude charts and getting reacquainted with how hotter air affects the way your canopy flies - and then adjust accordingly.

Cool


Squeak  (E 1313)

Mar 30, 2010, 5:49 PM
Post #15 of 17 (1213 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] C'mon folks [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Disagree, attitude or karma isn't a choice.

Quit this sport is a choice.....but not a solution.
How is attitude NOT a choice?? and Karma belongs with crytal balls and majic wands.

Many of the recent deaths are related to operator error in one form or other.
Not karma not gear failure, not the ground being angry at them.Crazy


davelepka  (D 21448)

Mar 30, 2010, 7:39 PM
Post #16 of 17 (1166 views)
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Re: [kallend] C'mon folks [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
But they may be related to the season. A lot of uncurrent jumpers start jumping again right around now.

Indeed they do, and a valid point in terms of what to watch out for this time of year.

I can't help but notice that all four of these incidents were in locations with year-round jumping (2 x Florida, Georgia, and Texas). I'm not sure if these jumpers were current locals, or uncurrent visitors, but the locations are such that they could have been current and these incidents occurred despite that.


Squeak  (E 1313)

Mar 30, 2010, 9:30 PM
Post #17 of 17 (1130 views)
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Re: [davelepka] C'mon folks [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
But they may be related to the season. A lot of uncurrent jumpers start jumping again right around now.

Indeed they do, and a valid point in terms of what to watch out for this time of year.

I can't help but notice that all four of these incidents were in locations with year-round jumping (2 x Florida, Georgia, and Texas). I'm not sure if these jumpers were current locals, or uncurrent visitors, but the locations are such that they could have been current and these incidents occurred despite that.
it can also be a matter of Stats, year round jumping, would predispose them to year round incidents, statistically speaking.



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