Forums: Skydiving: General Skydiving Discussions:
The New Skyride??????

 

First page Previous page 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Next page Last page  View All

chicagoland  (D 18676)

Mar 24, 2010, 3:14 PM
Post #151 of 271 (1159 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Jumpdude] The New Skyride?????? [In reply to] Can't Post

There's not much to tell here. We've had zoning issues with the county. Due to the problems, the airport owners have decided to take the airport in a new direction. I'm sure you guys will find a way to twist this into something much more. I encourage everyone to call the airport manager and do your due diligence on me. I'm not perfect, but I think you will be hard pressed to find anyone to call me a liar or a cheater.


Jumpdude  (C License)

Mar 24, 2010, 3:38 PM
Post #152 of 271 (1138 views)
Shortcut
Re: [chicagoland] The New Skyride?????? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
There's not much to tell here. We've had zoning issues with the county. Due to the problems, the airport owners have decided to take the airport in a new direction. I'm sure you guys will find a way to twist this into something much more. I encourage everyone to call the airport manager and do your due diligence on me. I'm not perfect, but I think you will be hard pressed to find anyone to call me a liar or a cheater.

I didn't call you a liar or a cheater, I did imply that you are using the same strong armed tactics as sLyride to get the DZO's to sign on. Had you done this before sLyride, it may have been a huge success, but being that you are about 10 years late and $75,000 short, I think you're in for a major uphill climb.
I don't know if 1800skyrideripoff.com is actually doing much to educate the public about the sLyride scam since it only gets around 1,000 uniques a week, but hopefully you won't build a portfolio for PROSkydivingripoff.com.

No,,,, I don't have that one.Laugh


chicagoland  (D 18676)

Mar 24, 2010, 3:45 PM
Post #153 of 271 (1132 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Jumpdude] The New Skyride?????? [In reply to] Can't Post

I know my word does not mean anything to you guys, but I assure you we are not going to be the next SkyRide. PROskydiving has been very well received by the industry and DZOs are excited about having a system like this to help them streamline their operations and push reservations out to their websites. Feel free to contact any of the DZs on our network and ask them why they joined - it's not because they are worried about us going down the street. We are very concerned about how we are perceived (the only reason I am paying attention to this thread) and are considering adjustments to make sure the industry knows that we want to create a win/win situation for everyone involved, especially the customer.

Doug


Jumpdude  (C License)

Mar 24, 2010, 4:04 PM
Post #154 of 271 (1115 views)
Shortcut
Re: [chicagoland] The New Skyride?????? [In reply to] Can't Post

I will say that, like the other guys pointed out, you made some changes to the text for the Non members, That speaks volumns, but one question I've been setting back wondering someone else would ask, and as far as I can tell, it has not been asked, so I will;
Now that your affiliation with sLyride has been exposed in a public forum, and you know who you they are and what they've done,
Do you plan to stop accepting their GC's, get what ever money is due to you from them and sever all ties to any and ALL of Cary Quattrocchi's business names? If you do plan to stop, when?

Edited to add, How can you set up a system to compete with an entity if you are an affiliate of the same entity?


(This post was edited by Jumpdude on Mar 24, 2010, 4:05 PM)


skydived19006  (D 19006)

Mar 24, 2010, 4:09 PM
Post #155 of 271 (1108 views)
Shortcut
Re: [NovaTTT] TandemRS.com [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.tandemrs.com/
Tandemrs as mentioned earlier appears to be a descent solution for the pitfalls of credit card processing. They charge a set up fee, then eigher $2 per tandem, or $95 flat monthly rate. And damned if it even allows the DZO to set a deposit fee. I looked at Skydive City who uses the service, they charge $25 for the deposit as opposed to a 100% up front.

Interesting, and nothing like Proskydiving, or Skyride.


chicagoland  (D 18676)

Mar 24, 2010, 4:16 PM
Post #156 of 271 (1104 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Jumpdude] The New Skyride?????? [In reply to] Can't Post

After reading this thread, I have thought about it more than ever, but I've never considered PROskydiving to be in competition with SkyRide. We are a software company focused on creating tools for DZs to be productive. We have big plans for other tools for DZOs to put in their arsenal for becoming smooth running, profitable businesses. Yes, we handle reservations, but we never deal with the customers - we've been down this road...

With regards to one of my other companies (completely unassociated financially with PROskydiving), I have to weigh everything out. I know that SkyRide is scamming people, but us ceasing to take their customers will, in no way, slow them down. I guess the justification for me has been financial as well as the idea that we can give these people a great experience out of great airplanes despite their poor decision on where to purchase their jump.

Doug


IanHarrop  (C 1152)

Mar 24, 2010, 4:20 PM
Post #157 of 271 (1098 views)
Shortcut
Re: [chicagoland] The New Skyride?????? [In reply to] Can't Post

One of the things that bothers me what happens when you looks up a state that has no Proskydiving centers.

Look at Montana. The DZs that get the big headlines are all in other states. The actual Montana dropzones are listed as at the bottom in the small print. I believe that a whuffo is not going to look for the fine print and going to miss that there are actual places, good ones, that people can jump at in Montana.

When someone selects Montana they should only get Montana dropzones, not be encouraged to go to another state.

Just my opinion.


Jumpdude  (C License)

Mar 24, 2010, 5:16 PM
Post #158 of 271 (1071 views)
Shortcut
Re: [chicagoland] The New Skyride?????? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
After reading this thread, I have thought about it more than ever, but I've never considered PROskydiving to be in competition with SkyRide. We are a software company focused on creating tools for DZs to be productive. We have big plans for other tools for DZOs to put in their arsenal for becoming smooth running, profitable businesses. Yes, we handle reservations, but we never deal with the customers - we've been down this road...

With regards to one of my other companies (completely unassociated financially with PROskydiving), I have to weigh everything out. I know that SkyRide is scamming people, but us ceasing to take their customers will, in no way, slow them down. I guess the justification for me has been financial as well as the idea that we can give these people a great experience out of great airplanes despite their poor decision on where to purchase their jump.

Doug

I think you are wrong about slowing them down. Now, I'm going to intentionally contradict myself for a minute,
You are correct, you quitting them will not slow them down, but it would be a damn good start, AND, Now back to being consistent, If you quit them, and other DZO's decide that your PROSkydiving is, or can be a better system, sLyride will either go out of business or the Government will get enough reports of customers being scammed that the Fed's will put them out of business. Just my opinion...


(This post was edited by Jumpdude on Mar 24, 2010, 7:09 PM)


Bolas  (D License)

Mar 24, 2010, 6:12 PM
Post #159 of 271 (1037 views)
Shortcut
Re: [chicagoland] The New Skyride?????? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
With regards to one of my other companies (completely unassociated financially with PROskydiving), I have to weigh everything out. I know that SkyRide is scamming people, but us ceasing to take their customers will, in no way, slow them down. I guess the justification for me has been financial as well as the idea that we can give these people a great experience out of great airplanes despite their poor decision on where to purchase their jump.

Doug

That's a load of BS and you know it. If DZ's stop working with them they might try to still sell tandems in your area, but telling people they had to drive 2 states away to TN would stop that real quick.

If DZO's really want to shut them down, stop taking their certificates. It's as simple as that. Let them try to continue to run their national presence from Cedartown and wherever in TN.

As for proskydiving.com, if you limit it to one site and stay away from the location based skydiving keyword searches, I'm not as concerned as most appear to be.


fasted3  (D 30104)

Mar 24, 2010, 6:31 PM
Post #160 of 271 (1024 views)
Shortcut
Re: [chicagoland] The New Skyride?????? [In reply to] Can't Post

As a spectator to this, I've gone both ways. Sometimes you seem like a good guy and other times I've been ready to grab a torch and pitchfork.
I still don't know.
If you wanted to convince me, you would start by severing all relations with Skyride. You know they are scum, so even if it costs you money it's worth it. Next, keep working to give non participating DZ's a fair shake. Don't direct people away from them, or make ones that do participate look more legitimate. Last, don't rape the ones that do sign up. An honest business that actually helps them is worth some bucks, so take what's fair. I don't think you getting half of their profit is fair at all. I don't know what you are getting, but if you aren't greedy about it, and hopefully add some business for them, I'll take you for the good guy you seem to want to be.


Iago  (D License)

Mar 24, 2010, 6:44 PM
Post #161 of 271 (1019 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Jumpdude] The New Skyride?????? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Our marketing plans do not include the internet.
PROSkydiving.com is a website, Right?

In reply to:
We want to sponsor events, take out magazine ads, TV ads, things that will get people thinking about skydiving and generate new business. If they want to Google a DZ near them, that's great, if they end up going to PROskdiving to locate a network DZ, that's fine too. Currently, the internet is the only place we are marketing our industry. That works well for people who know that they want to go skydiving. What about the people who don't even know there's a DZ 20 - 30 miles from their house?

With sLyride, and now PROskydiving in the mix, how can they know where the nearest REAL DZ is? In Tennessee, the only PROSkydiving member DZ that is listed is Skydive East Tennessee, does that mean that if someone in Memphis finds PROSkydiving, they are going to assume that they are going to have to travel over 400 miles? Furthermore, are they to assume that since you have MIke Mullins' two DZ's listed as "Non-PROSkydiving" DZ's, that those two DZ's are somehow inferior?
I also noticed that you have not removed Skydive Smoky Mountains from the Non member list.
Also, when did AFF's cost $55? That's what you've got the "Starting From" price set at for SkydiveET

SkydiveET also does Static Line Progression. Gee, they've gone up. My static lines back at Taylorville in '01 were only $35.

Another issue of textual semantics with the site.


(This post was edited by Iago on Mar 24, 2010, 7:03 PM)


Iago  (D License)

Mar 24, 2010, 6:58 PM
Post #162 of 271 (1004 views)
Shortcut
Re: The New Skyride?????? [In reply to] Can't Post

Ya know, I've read through this thread and I can't help but think about how many people are doubling back on themselves. This is what Skyride COULD have been- an honest, fee based booking service. Nothing hidden, no crap, no deception.

Skyride got as big as they did because they were the first to see the untapped potential of internet marketing applied to this industry. Any place that can setup a fake dropzone website for city X, book a bunch of tandems for a weekend, and then fly a plane full of TIs, video, and rigs up to Dropzone X and bust out tandems for a weekend borders on sheer genius.


So many times I have heard DZOs bitch about having to deal with Skyride customers that show up having been lied to about how they can come skydive at their operation. Strangely enough the topic shifts to 'if they just took the reservation for a reasonable fee, there would be no problem' or something like that.

No one ever had a problem with Skyride booking tandems. They had a problems with the deception, deceit, and fraud involved.

Well here it. A straight up booking service just like AAA, just like Travelocity, just like Expedia. No fraud, no deception, zip, zero, nada. If you would like to use our services we will list your dropzone and take care of all the internet marketing, booking, reservations, credit card processing, (et. al) for $X a booking. If not, that's cool too- we'll still list you on our site as a Skydiving Center where they can go jump. Hell, we'll even post a link. Maybe even a disclaimer that all PRO and non-PRO skydiving centers have committed to follow USPA training and Safety standards. Non-PRO does NOT mean NOT SAFE!!

They're really, really trying to work with everyone in the community as much as possible, but geez some people you just can't please.


(This post was edited by Iago on Mar 24, 2010, 7:01 PM)


Iago  (D License)

Mar 24, 2010, 7:16 PM
Post #163 of 271 (985 views)
Shortcut
Re: [NovaTTT] The New Skyride?????? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I interrupt this thread to make the following observation:

Having kept up with this thread, I'm curious that nobody has mentioned there is already at least one online tandem reservation service provider out there.

I don't know their specifics, but they're not marketing, they're not sending to non-local DZs and they're not listing "member" DZs and pretending they are somehow, therefore, superior.

As far as I can see, this company just acts as a server for online tandem reservations through the DZs website.

Clean and simple.

Please resume the discussion. Wink

Well good, more than one player in the market. Maybe one day we'll see an engine that searches multiple booking services for a tandem like FARECOMPARE.COM does for airline tickets?


Jumpdude  (C License)

Mar 24, 2010, 7:21 PM
Post #164 of 271 (979 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Iago] The New Skyride?????? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Well good, more than one player in the market. Maybe one day we'll see an engine that searches multiple booking services for a tandem like FARECOMPARE.COM does for airline tickets?


I've got one called http://www.Nationwidefraud.com! LaughTongue


Iago  (D License)

Mar 24, 2010, 7:41 PM
Post #165 of 271 (968 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Jumpdude] The New Skyride?????? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

Well good, more than one player in the market. Maybe one day we'll see an engine that searches multiple booking services for a tandem like FARECOMPARE.COM does for airline tickets?


I've got one called http://www.Nationwidefraud.com! LaughTongue

You're missing the point. If you go to a site like FARECOMPARE to book an airline ticket on Delta to go to the Bahamas it will search multiple booking services simultaneously. Now, the prices here will differ slightly (picture the skydiving industry times 10 with multiple DZ all busting out tandems at the same airport) since depending on the marketing arrangements Travelocity may sell the same seat $10 cheaper than Expedia. In exchange for booking the seat on Delta Travelocity is paid a fee by Delta, who then shares it with Farecompare for the assist.

By the logic I see being voiced in this, Farecompare, Travelocity, Expedia, etc. are all a bunch of scammers and fraudsters for redirecting traffic away from Delta's website.

Anyone with half a brain can go directly to Delta.com and see if they can get the same ticket cheaper. Similarly someone can go directly to Skydive The Farm's site and say "Oh look- they're having a special in two weeks. Lets call them and book in two weeks"

Knowing Hans the way I do, if someone books a $179 tandem on a 'tandem special' weekend he'll take care of it at the point of sale instead of sticking them for an extra twenty bucks.

Even better then can see the listing at the bottom and say 'Hey there's a place closer to us in Alabama that doesn't book here- let's check that out before we book with STF'

I'm still not seeing a problem here.


Jumpdude  (C License)

Mar 24, 2010, 7:46 PM
Post #166 of 271 (959 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Iago] The New Skyride?????? [In reply to] Can't Post

I understood what you were saying, I was being funny. Sorry if you didn't take it that way.


pilotdave  (D License)

Mar 24, 2010, 8:04 PM
Post #167 of 271 (942 views)
Shortcut
Re: [chicagoland] The New Skyride?????? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
. I know that SkyRide is scamming people, but us ceasing to take their customers will, in no way, slow them down.

Your dropzone and all of the DZs around you that work with skyride would be better off if skyride went away. They are stealing your business and selling it back to you.

But you feel stuck with skyride because your competitors use skyride. Your competitors are thinking the same freaking thing! They want out of skyride as much as you do! Now you can't just call your competitors and agree to dump skyride... that's probably illegal and if skyride has any money left in their lawyer piggy bank, they might sue.

So your other option is to lead by example. Dump skyride. Your competition will finally be free to do the same.

They will never go away as long as they have you convinced you need them. You existed before skyride, you'll exist after them too. Skyride did not introduce the twin otter to skydiving and they won't take it away.

But I definitely do see a comparison between skyride's tactic in this area and yours. You want DZs to believe that they need to join you or they'll get left in the dust. Once one dropzone in an area joins, all the others better join too.

Dave


(This post was edited by pilotdave on Mar 24, 2010, 8:05 PM)


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Mar 25, 2010, 5:13 AM
Post #168 of 271 (880 views)
Shortcut
Re: [davelepka] The New Skyride?????? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
...Does anyone out there think there is any way to justify this? In person, over the phone, or via e-mail?
Lets' face it, if there was, he would have done it right here, 40 posts ago. Instead, he repeates the same boilerplate, corporate speak bullshit, and doesn't directly address any of these issues.

...In contrast to that, Doug here, who stands to profit immensly from this, has taken very little time or effort to defend his actions, and the reason for that is because he cannot.

...He has no defense to the points I have made, and his inaction is what really validates my postion.

...I see no such defense as so such defense exists.

I'm still waiting for answers to the issues raised in Post # 77.......and waiting......and waiting....

Well, I'll be dang, you are right, Dave.

I'll add:
1. Tandemrs seems to be a much more straightforward service for booking than this one. I don't see any "preferred DZ" issues...no re-directing customers from one DZ to another.

2. If chicagoland thinks that re-directing customers away from DZ A to DZ B is helping the industry, DZ A is just going to love him when it goes out of business. I don't know what to say except, "SlyRide stench".


(This post was edited by popsjumper on Mar 25, 2010, 5:24 AM)


Harmless  (D 30719)

Mar 25, 2010, 5:29 AM
Post #169 of 271 (865 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Iago] The New Skyride?????? [In reply to] Can't Post

You are correct, more and more PRO seems like an up and up honest business... but that doesn't make them a good business choice for DZs.

Others have already pointed out why, for two reasons.
1) Most DZs don't need major marketing programs unless they are competing with other major marketing programs (i.e. Skyride and PRO) Yes that is a direct similarity. Both Skyride and PRO make money by standing between potential customers and local DZs.

2) DZs could use a good online booking system, but only as a background system and not for 15-20% of the sale.


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Mar 25, 2010, 6:51 AM
Post #170 of 271 (833 views)
Shortcut
Re: [chicagoland] The New Skyride?????? [In reply to] Can't Post

Just a little off topic but it is related.

How is the contract written between you and 1800skyride/Thrill Planet?

Matt


Opie  (D 13906)

Mar 25, 2010, 7:20 AM
Post #171 of 271 (817 views)
Shortcut
Re: [chicagoland] The New Skyride?????? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
After reading this thread, I have thought about it more than ever, but I've never considered PROskydiving to be in competition with SkyRide. We are a software company focused on creating tools for DZs to be productive. We have big plans for other tools for DZOs to put in their arsenal for becoming smooth running, profitable businesses. Yes, we handle reservations, but we never deal with the customers - we've been down this road...

With regards to one of my other companies (completely unassociated financially with PROskydiving), I have to weigh everything out. I know that SkyRide is scamming people, but us ceasing to take their customers will, in no way, slow them down. I guess the justification for me has been financial as well as the idea that we can give these people a great experience out of great airplanes despite their poor decision on where to purchase their jump.

Doug

Take a look at your words again and tell us how you expect everyone to believe what an honest and trustworthy businessman you are.

You need to stop partnering with Skyride and make it known that you will not be a part of their scams and fraud if you ever expect to have a trustworthy business reputation on the proskydiving side of things. You can't just say your dropzone and proskydive business is unrelated because they are separate business entities. They are both your busineses and this is a small industry, everyone will put the connection together. Your reputation is YOU and how you run all your busineses.

I have nothing against Doug or his business model of Proskydiving. I think it could be very successful if run in an ethical way but his partnership with a company(SKYRIDE) that he knows and admits is scamming people is a cloud over his business and ethical reputation that I think will haunt him in more ways than he realizes.


timmyfitz  (D License)

Mar 25, 2010, 7:24 AM
Post #172 of 271 (812 views)
Shortcut
Re: [chicagoland] The New Skyride?????? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Feel free to contact any of the DZs on our network and ask them why they joined

That would be the logical way to do it, as I suggested it to someone in this thread. But then they would probably have nothing to bitch about.

Keep up the good work.


soiledblues

Mar 25, 2010, 7:28 AM
Post #173 of 271 (803 views)
Shortcut
Re: [chicagoland] The New Skyride?????? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
There's not much to tell here. We've had zoning issues with the county. Due to the problems, the airport owners have decided to take the airport in a new direction. I'm sure you guys will find a way to twist this into something much more. I encourage everyone to call the airport manager and do your due diligence on me. I'm not perfect, but I think you will be hard pressed to find anyone to call me a liar or a cheater.

I had the wrong comparison earlier. With a few more bars to listen to, now I realize where I've heard this song before... different key, same melody -- Rod Blagojevich. "[Play the tapes in their entirety!]"

I think he has had enough national news coverage so everyone on here has probably heard of Blagojevich (recently impeached and indicted ex-gov of Illinois). Despite what the Prosecutor believes, Blago's convinced in his own mind he's right about all the things he's done because he believes his motives are pure and in support of the little guy.

So, in this case, do some spin on it and then "call the airport manager."

As for the "due diligence" checklist, Strong Enterprises probably needs to be on that list as well.


Iago  (D License)

Mar 25, 2010, 7:30 AM
Post #174 of 271 (800 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Harmless] The New Skyride?????? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You are correct, more and more PRO seems like an up and up honest business... but that doesn't make them a good business choice for DZs.

Others have already pointed out why, for two reasons.
1) Most DZs don't need major marketing programs unless they are competing with other major marketing programs (i.e. Skyride and PRO) Yes that is a direct similarity. Both Skyride and PRO make money by standing between potential customers and local DZs.

2) DZs could use a good online booking system, but only as a background system and not for 15-20% of the sale.

I would beg to differ with this. As I've pointed out, Skyride was the first to realize the potential of Internet mass-marketing in this industry and they exploited it to the max. The Internet is the way to go, particularly with the younger tech generation. They don't listen to much radio (MP3s, IPods, streaming audio), don't read a whole lot of newspapers or magazines (CNN.COM, FOXNEWS.COM, YAHOO, etc.) and don't watch live TV (Hulu, Netflix, XBox, PS3, etc.) Internet marketing is cheap compared with other mass-media like newspaper and radio.

The DZs are paying PRO to handle all the marketing, server and website infrastructure, construction, maintenance, yadda yadda yadda. DZOs don't have time for this- they're too busy chucking meat and trying to scratch out a living. If PRO decides to try and boost East TN's Internet sales by running a marketing campaign out at UT they put out the cash to do it. If ET books 50 tandems that month off the PRO site they pay PRO for the bookings. If not, they don't pay anything.

Would ET get these tandems anyways? I don't know and neither does anyone else.

Plenty of other companies and business' make money being the middleman. Amazon, Travelocity, Yahoo! Shopping, Fidelity, Charles Schwab, etc. etc. All get a slice for handling the transactions between suppliers and consumers. I'll let the DZOs decide if they need a major marketing program and decide to use PRO's services. Time will tell if this works out or not and is worth the fees.

Untill the DZs start to report that this is trash and a complete waste I say 'Full Throttle'


Jumpdude  (C License)

Mar 25, 2010, 7:38 AM
Post #175 of 271 (791 views)
Shortcut
Re: [chicagoland] The New Skyride?????? [In reply to] Can't Post

Are you listening to what we are saying? You said earlier in this thread something about you would rather not get beat up here in the forums, (or something to that effect), But first, when asked if you accept the sLyride GC's, yes, you did give an honest answer of "Yes", That's respectable that you were at least honest about that, BUT, the cloud, very DARK cloud is still hanging over your head and the ONLY way you are going to get rid of it is to sever your ties to sLyride. Do the right thing and lead by example.


First page Previous page 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Skydiving : General Skydiving Discussions

 


Search for (options)