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How NOT to throw a drogue - video

 

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skydiverek  (C 952)

Mar 14, 2010, 4:27 AM
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How NOT to throw a drogue - video Can't Post

 
http://www.youtube.com/...I4fhFhK9w&fmt=18


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Mar 14, 2010, 7:29 AM
Post #2 of 83 (4841 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] How NOT to throw a drogue - video [In reply to] Can't Post

This how NOT to throw rocks. Watch it again.


halorob

Mar 14, 2010, 10:09 AM
Post #3 of 83 (4738 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] How NOT to throw a drogue - video [In reply to] Can't Post

That Seahawk has terrible body position and a very large head!


pchapman  (D 1014)

Mar 14, 2010, 10:17 AM
Post #4 of 83 (4728 views)
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Re: [BIGUN] How NOT to throw a drogue - video [In reply to] Can't Post

How not to throw rocks? You arguing for or against?

We all have our bad drogue tosses but that still looks like a really bad one.


Oh, silly me, I must have missed the point:

The guy in the video is from Red Bull, so it must be an intentional toss while rolling 360 after exit. It's just like a low altitude BASE layout backloop: Pull early, PC is out to the side while one is rotating, and the canopy comes off one's back while rotating level again.

So he's just demonstrating his awesome drogue toss timing skillz, releasing it back to wind so that it barely misses the student's legs. Wish I were so good.Wink Wink


BrianM  (D 661)

Mar 14, 2010, 12:07 PM
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Re: [pchapman] How NOT to throw a drogue - video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
so that it barely misses the student's legs.

Barely misses? Look again (see attached).
Attachments: drogue.jpg (140 KB)


pchapman  (D 1014)

Mar 14, 2010, 12:26 PM
Post #6 of 83 (4664 views)
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Re: [BrianM] How NOT to throw a drogue - video [In reply to] Can't Post

You sure had a close look there Brian! So there was drogue and bridle on the student's leg.

It's all about the exciting ride these days. If everything went right all the time, it wouldn't be EXTREME would it!
Wink


JohnDeere  (D License)

Mar 14, 2010, 1:26 PM
Post #7 of 83 (4616 views)
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Re: [halorob] How NOT to throw a drogue - video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
That Seahawk has terrible body position and a very large head!

Its cool to blame it all on the Seahawk but it looks like everything is pretty stable until the instructor wraps his right leg around front causing the barrel rollWink Im not saying its all him fault but he sure helped it.


lowpull  (D 18385)

Mar 14, 2010, 1:37 PM
Post #8 of 83 (4605 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] How NOT to throw a drogue - video [In reply to] Can't Post

What a shitty Tandem I (and I use the I loosely).
Unfortuneately, this is the now the norm on most dz's now, not the exception.


Para5-0  (D 19054)

Mar 14, 2010, 1:39 PM
Post #9 of 83 (4604 views)
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Re: [JohnDeere] How NOT to throw a drogue - video [In reply to] Can't Post

FYI, I am having a flashback here. About ten years ago, I took a costume character with a very similar head piece (A large nose). As soon as we left it acted at a rudder and forced us onto our side. All attempts to get belly down resulted in us both ending up on our side. The passenger was an experienced TI wearing the costume, so it was not his body position. Needless to say the drogue may have come out without being in the best position.lol
It all worked out but it was a fairly scary demo.
Glad this one worked out as well.


JohnDeere  (D License)

Mar 14, 2010, 1:59 PM
Post #10 of 83 (4588 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] How NOT to throw a drogue - video [In reply to] Can't Post

That does make sense. I have watched it a few more times and can see were that could have contributed.


halorob

Mar 14, 2010, 2:07 PM
Post #11 of 83 (4580 views)
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Re: [JohnDeere] How NOT to throw a drogue - video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
That Seahawk has terrible body position and a very large head!

Its cool to blame it all on the Seahawk but it looks like everything is pretty stable until the instructor wraps his right leg around front causing the barrel rollWink Im not saying its all him fault but he sure helped it.
I wasn't casting the blame at the Seahawk, LOL. I was just trying to divert the attention from the horrible drogue tossTongue I just noticed the leg thing too. I'm just glad nothing happened to the Seahawks mascot, they'd end up like 5-11 without him. Oh Wait, they were 5-11 last yearUnsure


NovaTTT  (D 17887)

Mar 14, 2010, 2:15 PM
Post #12 of 83 (4569 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] How NOT to throw a drogue - video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
As soon as we left it acted at a rudder and forced us onto our side.

I see what you're saying but it doesn't look like that's what's going on here.

It looks like the pair started to drop right when the TI reached and then, for some reason, he wrapped his right leg around the Seahawk and amped the twist/barrelroll. The TI held onto the drogue for a brief moment until his right side was outside the rotation.

The first 1.5 secs (prior to reach) looks solid.

.02


halorob

Mar 14, 2010, 2:17 PM
Post #13 of 83 (4564 views)
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Re: [pchapman] How NOT to throw a drogue - video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
How not to throw rocks? You arguing for or against?

We all have our bad drogue tosses but that still looks like a really bad one.


Oh, silly me, I must have missed the point:

The guy in the video is from Red Bull, so it must be an intentional toss while rolling 360 after exit. It's just like a low altitude BASE layout backloop: Pull early, PC is out to the side while one is rotating, and the canopy comes off one's back while rotating level again.

So he's just demonstrating his awesome drogue toss timing skillz, releasing it back to wind so that it barely misses the student's legs. Wish I were so good.Wink Wink
It does kinda look like the roll was intentional BUT sketchy looking at best. I'm sure its not the first time a drogue shoot has come in contact with the tandem. But because he is on Red Bull I'm sure he will be tar'd and feather'd.


halorob

Mar 14, 2010, 2:21 PM
Post #14 of 83 (4556 views)
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Re: [lowpull] How NOT to throw a drogue - video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What a shitty Tandem I (and I use the I loosely).
Unfortuneately, this is the now the norm on most dz's now, not the exception.
. . .


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Mar 14, 2010, 4:02 PM
Post #15 of 83 (4489 views)
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Re: [halorob] How NOT to throw a drogue - video [In reply to] Can't Post

Good thing the feathers are close at hand!
Hah!
Hah!


LukeAikins  (D 21189)

Mar 14, 2010, 11:15 PM
Post #16 of 83 (4321 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] How NOT to throw a drogue - video [In reply to] Can't Post

Man you guys are right that guy is a shitty tandem instructor we should look at getting him in trouble. No better yet lets kick his ass. No better yet lets kill him. He is a member of the Red Bull team they do nothing to help the sport they just take and take and think the rules don't apply to them. We could just line them up and take them all out at once. I have seen almost all of that guys exits and they all suck just as bad.


skydog  (D 567)

Mar 15, 2010, 2:13 AM
Post #17 of 83 (4283 views)
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Re: [LukeAikins] How NOT to throw a drogue - video [In reply to] Can't Post

Trouble is that if you live by the sword then you die by the sword...........

As TI's we have all fucked up and will continue to do so, but by sacrificing safety for "cool" then you are going to get criticised.

With all your jumps it shouldn't have taken a lot to work out the physics of how that would go.

As Red Bull AirForce you have access to a wider audience than most and therefore have a greater responsibility to be better.


jimmytavino  (A 3914)

Mar 15, 2010, 6:06 AM
Post #18 of 83 (4213 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] How NOT to throw a drogue - video [In reply to] Can't Post

i've seen worse......

one thing is for SURE...

that cameraperson MUST be spending a LOT of time deleting
pictures, from the still camera.....Wink
if the pace of shutter firings, shown after landing, is any indication... there must have been a hundred pics. taken,,, during the skydive..Unimpressed
jmy


peek  (D 8884)

Mar 15, 2010, 7:26 AM
Post #19 of 83 (4157 views)
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Re: [LukeAikins] How NOT to throw a drogue - video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Man you guys are right that guy is a shitty tandem instructor we should look at getting him in trouble.

Luke, you mean they didn't tell you? That you are on triple-secret probation? Laugh


LukeAikins  (D 21189)

Mar 15, 2010, 8:36 AM
Post #20 of 83 (4123 views)
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Re: [peek] How NOT to throw a drogue - video [In reply to] Can't Post

Zero Point Zero....


(This post was edited by LukeAikins on Mar 15, 2010, 9:22 AM)


davelepka  (D 21448)

Mar 15, 2010, 9:20 AM
Post #21 of 83 (4082 views)
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Re: [LukeAikins] How NOT to throw a drogue - video [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Mr. Aikins Zero Point Zero....

Zero point zero is some funny shit.

The truth is, this could have gone very wrong. Rolling over like that with the drouge coming out is just asking for it to get wrapped around something. Not caught on a foot, which could be kicked off, but wrapped, as in never coming off and making for some real trouble later on when handles start getting pulled. We've all seen the video of the drouge wrapped around the jumpers neck.

The problem here is that any way you slice it, the TI fucked up. If the guy in the suit was an experienced jumper or a first timer, the plan should have been for a stable exit, hands on harness and legs in between the TI, follwed by a clean drouge throw and then start rocking out for camera.

Regardless of who was in the suit, it needed to be stressed that a clean exit was essential, and that any sort of 'antics' were to be reserved for after the TI had signaled that it was appropriate.

As for the TI or their qualifications, that should be of no consequence. If your claim is that there is a level of expereince that makes the roll-over to drouge toss OK, then you are way off base. That roll should have been unintentional, unwanted, and a wake up call to the TI. If it was anything but that, the TI, regardless of their experience needs their rating pulled. No circumstance on earth would make planning that manuver acceptable.


pbwing

Mar 15, 2010, 10:17 AM
Post #22 of 83 (4044 views)
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Re: [LukeAikins] How NOT to throw a drogue - video [In reply to] Can't Post

...and look how well he did. He went on to become a US Senator!!


diablopilot  (D License)

Mar 15, 2010, 11:04 AM
Post #23 of 83 (3997 views)
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Re: [davelepka] How NOT to throw a drogue - video [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd say the point to be taken here is that EVERY TI out there can and probably has tanked an exit. It happens. I am VERY sure that the TI in this video is aware of the risks involved with an unstable drogue toss and doesn't need a crucifixion to learn a lesson about it here.

However, here is a lesson on controlling our media collectively as a sport. Why a major company like Red Bull who has resources to spare, or even an individual who doesn't would put a mistake out there like this for public consumption is confusing.

Not only can it have the effect of endorsing "cowboy" behavior in the eyes of those don't know any better, but it opens up the door of liability.

I've worked for DZ's that don't care about the product that leaves the video room, and in this day of public media access I think that is a scary position. Other DZ's will have a "video mal" if something not suitable for public consumption is shot.

The bigger challenge these days is every Joe on the DZ has a GoPro on their head and many have no judgment about what is sensible to post, and what should be kept under tight wraps. Too often it's an ego and a desire to "have the cool shot" that prevail.

Does the hypothetical person with the great shot of the airplane diving after a tandem exit realize that the N-number is visible? The FAA has already told our people at USPA HQ that they are looking at social media sites including YouTube. They have commented on winsuits flying by tandems, they pointed out that tandem demos into stadiums are against FAA policy. There are eyes out there, and they are not limited to the FAA.


(This post was edited by diablopilot on Mar 15, 2010, 3:05 PM)


lowpull  (D 18385)

Mar 15, 2010, 11:07 AM
Post #24 of 83 (3993 views)
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Re: [davelepka] How NOT to throw a drogue - video [In reply to] Can't Post

Excellent post Sir!!!

Eloquent, concise, and to the point.

Well spoken!!

ralph


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Mar 15, 2010, 12:23 PM
Post #25 of 83 (3943 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] How NOT to throw a drogue - video [In reply to] Can't Post

Well said Diablopilot!

That reminds me of the "bloopers" tape that Perris Valley Skydiving School used to show to new instructors.

PVSS management never wanted it released to the general public for fear that some ambulance-chasing lawyer would use it as evidence against them in a lawsuit.

Similarly, Jay Stokes has compiled a "tandem horror stories" video that is only supposed to be shown during TICC.


(This post was edited by riggerrob on Mar 15, 2010, 12:26 PM)


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