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Night jump questions......

 

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Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

Jan 21, 2010, 7:27 AM
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Night jump questions...... Can't Post

So I'm gonna get in my first night jump yes that's right I owe beer. I am in Ohio and the jump will be at Ft. Knox in the KY which will be balls cold but so worth it out of a C130 Smile So I of course have been thinking about it and the extra precautuion that must be taken. Any advice or things to really focus on?

Is the landing really that much different perception wise?


(This post was edited by Rstanley0312 on Jan 21, 2010, 7:28 AM)


JohnRich  (D License)

Jan 21, 2010, 7:54 AM
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Re: [Rstanley0312] Night jump questions...... [In reply to] Can't Post

Read the night jump briefing in the SIM.


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Jan 21, 2010, 7:57 AM
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Re: [Rstanley0312] Night jump questions...... [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.dropzone.com/...tail_page.cgi?ID=570


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

Jan 21, 2010, 8:14 AM
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Thanks brother I was looking for something like that on here and John..... although my first reaction is to tell you "ya I know and already have"..... I know why you said read the SIM.

I really wanted some accounts or little thngs others have experienced on landing and what the difference is.


IanHarrop  (C 1152)

Jan 21, 2010, 8:54 AM
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Re: [Rstanley0312] Night jump questions...... [In reply to] Can't Post

Good Article here:
http://theblueskyranch.com/...fing_files/frame.htm


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

Jan 21, 2010, 9:38 AM
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Re: [IanHarrop] Night jump questions...... [In reply to] Can't Post


That was great thank you Ian


kmills0705  (D 21696)

Jan 21, 2010, 10:19 AM
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Re: [Rstanley0312] Night jump questions...... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So I'm gonna get in my first night jump yes that's right I owe beer. I am in Ohio and the jump will be at Ft. Knox in the KY which will be balls cold but so worth it out of a C130 Smile So I of course have been thinking about it and the extra precaution that must be taken. Any advice or things to really focus on?

Is the landing really that much different perception wise?

Rob, I did my two required night jumps years and years ago for my D license requirement. I was nervous at the time but remembered the sheer beauty and peace of a night jump.

This past New Years Eve I made 3 night jumps down in ZHills. Ten years had passed since my last one so it was almost like being a virgin again!!! I was not quite as nervous. And all three were amazing.

Keep in mind (should clouds cooperate) there is a full moon on January 30th. So on the 29th we will have pretty close to a full moon. You will be amazed at how well you can see.

You will learn a lot at the briefing. Much of which is covered in the SIM. The fact that the full moon will cast a shadow on the ground and there have been jumpers who made a low turn thinking there was a canopy in close proximity.

As far as landings go I don't do anything much differently on a night jump (especially since I am conservative to begin with and you don't see me swooping). You lose a little depth perception. But all in all landings are not difficult at night. (And Normiss if you are reading this you can leave your comments out!!! :P)

When we are doing our day jumps I would recommend you open a little high and really check out the landing area making mental notes of any obstacles on the ground that you might not see at night. In ZHills I made mental notes of landing area so I would know what to avoid.

It will be awesome and a jump you will never forget.

Oh and Rob - I think a few of us are going to grab some food and drinks after the briefing Thursday night... so plan on joining us!

See you next week!!!


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

Jan 21, 2010, 12:26 PM
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Re: [kmills0705] Night jump questions...... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
So I'm gonna get in my first night jump yes that's right I owe beer. I am in Ohio and the jump will be at Ft. Knox in the KY which will be balls cold but so worth it out of a C130 Smile So I of course have been thinking about it and the extra precaution that must be taken. Any advice or things to really focus on?

Is the landing really that much different perception wise?

Rob, I did my two required night jumps years and years ago for my D license requirement. I was nervous at the time but remembered the sheer beauty and peace of a night jump.

This past New Years Eve I made 3 night jumps down in ZHills. Ten years had passed since my last one so it was almost like being a virgin again!!! I was not quite as nervous. And all three were amazing.

Keep in mind (should clouds cooperate) there is a full moon on January 30th. So on the 29th we will have pretty close to a full moon. You will be amazed at how well you can see.

You will learn a lot at the briefing. Much of which is covered in the SIM. The fact that the full moon will cast a shadow on the ground and there have been jumpers who made a low turn thinking there was a canopy in close proximity.

As far as landings go I don't do anything much differently on a night jump (especially since I am conservative to begin with and you don't see me swooping). You lose a little depth perception. But all in all landings are not difficult at night. (And Normiss if you are reading this you can leave your comments out!!! :P)

When we are doing our day jumps I would recommend you open a little high and really check out the landing area making mental notes of any obstacles on the ground that you might not see at night. In ZHills I made mental notes of landing area so I would know what to avoid.

It will be awesome and a jump you will never forget.

Oh and Rob - I think a few of us are going to grab some food and drinks after the briefing Thursday night... so plan on joining us!

See you next week!!!


I'm in and I am also pretty pumped. The night jump is gonna be pretty damn cold. ;)


Travman  (E License)

Jan 21, 2010, 2:44 PM
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Re: [Rstanley0312] Night jump questions...... [In reply to] Can't Post

Maintain awareness, there are less visual cues.

I did a night jump on jump 67. After opening I located the DZ then collapsed the slider and unstowed toggles, which took longer than usual due to gloves and I was trying to stay relaxed. Once I had done that I realised strong uppers had blown me too far downwind to get back to the DZ. I landed off-dz in pitch black (no moon) in a barbed wire fence - broke my nose.


format  (B 15348)

Jan 21, 2010, 5:14 PM
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Re: [Travman] Night jump questions...... [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Mine was #94 (just after 2nd reserve ride).
I've decided to rely on altimeter.. which brought me to pictch black off landing too, pure luck got me land standing.
Next one, same night, was spot on, tnx to adjusting steering of 100ft larger canopy than usual (without checking altimeter).


sparkie  (D License)

Jan 22, 2010, 1:12 AM
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Re: [kmills0705] Night jump questions...... [In reply to] Can't Post

is it still a requirement for D?

What a strange requirement to have to do 2 night jumps for your d licence.

What would one benefit from that experience, safety wise? It's not like you ever going to jump out of something and suddenly discover that the sun has set long ago...

Crazy


BobMoore  (D 13136)

Jan 22, 2010, 4:13 AM
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Re: [sparkie] Night jump questions...... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What a strange requirement to have to do 2 night jumps for your d licence.

That's what I thought, too. Maybe they felt they had to justify the "Master Skydiver" label they put on the D license.

That always embarrassed me. I didn't feel that I was a master skydiver then and I don't now.


(This post was edited by BobMoore on Jan 22, 2010, 4:14 AM)


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jan 22, 2010, 4:15 AM
Post #13 of 152 (3588 views)
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Re: [sparkie] Night jump questions...... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
is it still a requirement for D?

What a strange requirement to have to do 2 night jumps for your d licence.

What would one benefit from that experience, safety wise? It's not like you ever going to jump out of something and suddenly discover that the sun has set long ago...

Crazy

Oh God...there has been many conversations about that very thing (heated ones, I might add). The consensus seems to be:
1. From the older guys: I had to do it you should too.
2. It makes for a more well-rounded skydiver.
3. You may be on the plane when it gets dark and have to do an emergency exit.

Other than that, proponents have nothing.

Tim Crouch says we do it to prepare for those occasions where you do step out and suddenly realize its dark.

Funny thing...they removed the water jump requirement as though we will never have need of it. Apparently, the powers that be seem to think that we will never accidently hit water whereas we might accidently jump at night.
Crazy


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

Jan 22, 2010, 6:50 AM
Post #14 of 152 (3538 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Night jump questions...... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
is it still a requirement for D?

What a strange requirement to have to do 2 night jumps for your d licence.

What would one benefit from that experience, safety wise? It's not like you ever going to jump out of something and suddenly discover that the sun has set long ago...

Crazy

Oh God...there has been many conversations about that very thing (heated ones, I might add). The consensus seems to be:
1. From the older guys: I had to do it you should too.
2. It makes for a more well-rounded skydiver.
3. You may be on the plane when it gets dark and have to do an emergency exit.

Other than that, proponents have nothing.

Tim Crouch says we do it to prepare for those occasions where you do step out and suddenly realize its dark.

Funny thing...they removed the water jump requirement as though we will never have need of it. Apparently, the powers that be seem to think that we will never accidently hit water whereas we might accidently jump at night.
Crazy


I don't know if I would have ever done a night jump if it wasn't a requirement for my D. Probably would have just maybe a lot later. I am excited about it now but I do not agree with the requirement at all. THe whole we did it you have to arguement is just childish and has no base in logic. The argument that I will be on a plane and it might all of the sudden be dark? Come on......... really? Anyway, I think it will be a great experience especially out of a C130! Cool a mandatory experience to have though..... no


pilotdave  (D License)

Jan 22, 2010, 7:38 AM
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Re: [Rstanley0312] Night jump questions...... [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The argument that I will be on a plane and it might all of the sudden be dark? Come on......... really?

Might sound dumb, but it happens. Last load of the day, you know it's going to be a little on the dark side by the time you land. Sun sets, clouds roll in, etc... and it's a whole lot darker than you expected. Good thing you were wearing a strobe!

I have no problem with the requirement, but I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense. Anyone with a B-license is trained for that unexpected dark jump. But I also am fine with the idea that every D-licensed jumper has actually demonstrated that they've done it. When you do find yourself landing after dark, it's nice to know the people in the air with you have done this before.

But I love night jumps. Last one was new year's day. Winter night jumps are nice because you can be done by 6:30. Smile

Dave


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

Jan 22, 2010, 8:06 AM
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Re: [pilotdave] Night jump questions...... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
The argument that I will be on a plane and it might all of the sudden be dark? Come on......... really?

Might sound dumb, but it happens. Last load of the day, you know it's going to be a little on the dark side by the time you land. Sun sets, clouds roll in, etc... and it's a whole lot darker than you expected. Good thing you were wearing a strobe!

I have no problem with the requirement, but I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense. Anyone with a B-license is trained for that unexpected dark jump. But I also am fine with the idea that every D-licensed jumper has actually demonstrated that they've done it. When you do find yourself landing after dark, it's nice to know the people in the air with you have done this before.

But I love night jumps. Last one was new year's day. Winter night jumps are nice because you can be done by 6:30. Smile

Dave


I have done more than a few "sunset" jumps but the sky is not even close to as dark as 1 hour after dark. I just don't see how you can have a guy with 5000 jumps, all the ratings and skills but he/she cannot have a D bc he/she does not want to do a night jump. That doesn't make sense to me.


Sletzer  (B 31200)

Jan 22, 2010, 8:26 AM
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Re: [Rstanley0312] Night jump questions...... [In reply to] Can't Post

 
I'd personally like to see the water jump requirement come back. That'd give me an excuse to go do one Smile


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jan 22, 2010, 10:10 AM
Post #18 of 152 (3467 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Night jump questions...... [In reply to] Can't Post

>Funny thing...they removed the water jump requirement as though
>we will never have need of it.

True, but we have to do live water training i.e. do everything with actual gear from touchdown to escape. And that has saved a lot of lives.


kmills0705  (D 21696)

Jan 22, 2010, 10:10 AM
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Re: [sparkie] Night jump questions...... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
is it still a requirement for D?

What a strange requirement to have to do 2 night jumps for your d licence.

What would one benefit from that experience, safety wise? It's not like you ever going to jump out of something and suddenly discover that the sun has set long ago...

Crazy

Yes, it is still a requirement and the issue has been debated back and forth.

I think USPA did a recent poll on if they should be required. And if I remember correctly it was largely for keeping the night jump requirement.

I don't know what the original intention of the requirement - was it intended to prepare you for an "accidental" night jump? I doubt it. I think since the D license is the highest level then you should have experience with the extreme skydiving conditions.

This sport has evolved so much since I started jumping. You could argue there are other extreme aspects that one should experience in order to obtain the "expert" or "master" status. I see it as a test of skills. Do you know enough about your canopy, equipment, etc to land it in an unfamiliar situation?


jclalor  (B 33202)

Jan 22, 2010, 10:47 AM
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Re: [Sletzer] Night jump questions...... [In reply to] Can't Post

When did they drop the water jump? I jumped in a freezing ass pool in December for nada?


Premier NWFlyer  (D 29960)

Jan 22, 2010, 10:51 AM
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Re: [jclalor] Night jump questions...... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
When did they drop the water jump? I jumped in a freezing ass pool in December for nada?

That's not a water jump. That's water training. Still required for B license.


pilotdave  (D License)

Jan 22, 2010, 11:10 AM
Post #22 of 152 (3443 views)
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Re: [Rstanley0312] Night jump questions...... [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I just don't see how you can have a guy with 5000 jumps, all the ratings and skills but he/she cannot have a D bc he/she does not want to do a night jump.

A restricted D-license is available to those that can't do night jumps for whatever reason. Which also seems silly to me. What exactly is the restriction? They are not allowed to do night jumps? How do they get the restriction lifted? By doing night jumps?

But in general, I think instructor ratings should all require a D-license. Seems odd that you could be an instructor with 5000 jumps, no night jumps, and be teaching AFF students and doing night jump briefings, etc without having a D-license.

Dave


(This post was edited by pilotdave on Jan 22, 2010, 11:11 AM)


MakeItHappen

Jan 22, 2010, 11:22 AM
Post #23 of 152 (3432 views)
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Re: [jclalor] Night jump questions...... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
When did they drop the water jump? I jumped in a freezing ass pool in December for nada?

The real water jump requirement was dropped after the CYPRES gained popularity and no one wanted to jump without a CYPRES.
IIRC it was for the C license.

I did mine at Lake Elsinore with T-10 main & belly reserve gear around 1982.
Larry Fatino was running Elsinore then.
Jim Gates, Bob Brotnow and I went over the hill and did a hop & pop into the lake.
Bob later went in on Spike's Beech crash at Taft.
He typed his logbook.
Larry died on the Perris Otter crash.

A few years later I had a reserve ride at Muskogee, OK on a demo.
It was very windy and I landed in the river under a round reserve.
The current was the opposite direction of the wind.
The canopy tried to swallow me up as it went downstream faster than me.
An off-duty cop pulled up in a speedboat and pulled me out.
He wanted to get me out first, but I pointed to the PC that was floating and told him to pick up that first and reel me in.
He was there very quickly because I yelled for help up high.
The boat that was 'assigned' to pick up anyone in the water was nowhere to be seen.

Ray Ferrell chased my main to the other side of the river. That's when I first met him.

To get on this demo in slightly high winds, I had to convince Bill Booth that I could handle it.
I told him I had never packed myself a malfunction, but I did have a malfunction on my 7th jump.

Real water jumps are actually a lot of fun, especially on a hot summer day.
They do teach you a lot about what to do if it should happen.

The pool training that you get nowadays is nothing like a real water jump, except maybe that you get wet.

.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jan 22, 2010, 11:52 AM
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Re: [kmills0705] Night jump questions...... [In reply to] Can't Post

>was it intended to prepare you for an "accidental" night jump?

It:

prepares you for an inadvertent after-sunset jump
prepares you for jumping in limited visibility conditions
prepares you for actual night jumps


gearless_chris  (D 29012)

Jan 22, 2010, 1:07 PM
Post #25 of 152 (3386 views)
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Re: [billvon] Night jump questions...... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
>was it intended to prepare you for an "accidental" night jump?

It:

prepares you for an inadvertent after-sunset jump
prepares you for jumping in limited visibility conditions
prepares you for actual night jumps

It is also:

A darn good time, especially around July 4th.
Hard to keep enough people from drinking after sunset to get a load together, which makes it even more special when you actually get to do one.


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