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Re: [billvon] Fatality - Tampa Bay, FL - 20 Jan 2010

 


AggieDave  (D License)

Jan 20, 2010, 3:32 PM
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Re: [billvon] Fatality - Tampa Bay, FL - 20 Jan 2010 Can't Post

A "board certified expert witness" that is perpetuating one of the worst canopy myths? I find that funny and sad all at once.


robinheid  (D 5533)

Jan 20, 2010, 3:38 PM
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Re: [AggieDave] Fatality - Tampa Bay, FL - 20 Jan 2010 [In reply to] Can't Post

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A "board certified expert witness" that is perpetuating one of the worst canopy myths? I find that funny and sad all at once.

court certified.


Andy9o8  (D License)

Jan 20, 2010, 4:29 PM
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Re: [robinheid] Fatality - Tampa Bay, FL - 20 Jan 2010 [In reply to] Can't Post

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In reply to:
A "board certified expert witness" that is perpetuating one of the worst canopy myths? I find that funny and sad all at once.

court certified.

I feel compelled to reply to that again, Robin.

From my post # 263 in this thread:
http://www.dropzone.com/...ring=expert;#3776342


Quote:

[ (Robinheid): "Marta and I are in fact the only two court-certified BASE jumping expert witnesses in the United States. We received that certification in 2000 when we helped Hank Caylor beat his reckless endangerment charge in Denver." ]

(Andy9o8):

I think a little perspective is in order.

The term "court certified expert witness" is sometimes used quite reasonably. But many times, it is used in a way that tends to mislead the average layperson as to what the term actually does, and does not, connote.

I think a layperson (to the law) might misconstrue what being an expert witness in court does, and does not, mean. It simply means that in an individual lawsuit, a person is offered to testify to his opinion as an expert witness in a certain field, and the trial judge (who is usually a layperson in the witness's field of specialty) allowed him to do so.

Nothing more, nothing less.

It is a designation conveyed by a layperson to the field (i.e., the judge) - only. It is most certainly not a designation conveyed by some authority or certifiying body with actual expertise and/or oversight in the witness's field of special knowledge.

While not completely unheard of, it is exceedingly rare for a person offered as an expert witness in a particular field to be rejected by the judge, that is to say, denied permission by the judge to testify as to his opinion in some manner of expert capacity. (Sometimes a certain expert opinion may be rejected as lacking adequate foundation, but it's highly rare for a person offered as an expert witness to be rejected out of hand by the judge solely on the basis of his qualifications.)

For example, I'd think just about anyone with a USPA "D", or even a "C" license would probably be allowed by most whuffo trial judges testify as an expert witness in skydiving. But if, hypothetically, some guy with, say, 80 jumps and a "B" license were to be offered as an expert witness in skydiving, and the (layperson/whuffo) judge allowed him to testify as such, then "Voila!!" that person would now be an expert witness.

And if, in the future, that former witness decides to parade out the term "court-certified expert witness" in his resume, promotional literature or signature line, to make it appear to others that he has been anointed with some manner of "certified" expertise greater than other people in his field, who's to stop him? Well, other than someone telling him to STFU, probably nobody.


(This post was edited by Andy9o8 on Jan 20, 2010, 4:30 PM)


robinheid  (D 5533)

Jan 20, 2010, 4:53 PM
Post #4 of 4 (1048 views)
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Re: [Andy9o8] Fatality - Tampa Bay, FL - 20 Jan 2010 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
A "board certified expert witness" that is perpetuating one of the worst canopy myths? I find that funny and sad all at once.

court certified.

I feel compelled to reply to that again, Robin.

From my post # 263 in this thread:
http://www.dropzone.com/...ring=expert;#3776342


Quote:

[ (Robinheid): "Marta and I are in fact the only two court-certified BASE jumping expert witnesses in the United States. We received that certification in 2000 when we helped Hank Caylor beat his reckless endangerment charge in Denver." ]

(Andy9o8):

I think a little perspective is in order.

The term "court certified expert witness" is sometimes used quite reasonably. But many times, it is used in a way that tends to mislead the average layperson as to what the term actually does, and does not, connote.

I think a layperson (to the law) might misconstrue what being an expert witness in court does, and does not, mean. It simply means that in an individual lawsuit, a person is offered to testify to his opinion as an expert witness in a certain field, and the trial judge (who is usually a layperson in the witness's field of specialty) allowed him to do so.

Nothing more, nothing less.

It is a designation conveyed by a layperson to the field (i.e., the judge) - only. It is most certainly not a designation conveyed by some authority or certifiying body with actual expertise and/or oversight in the witness's field of special knowledge.

While not completely unheard of, it is exceedingly rare for a person offered as an expert witness in a particular field to be rejected by the judge, that is to say, denied permission by the judge to testify as to his opinion in some manner of expert capacity. (Sometimes a certain expert opinion may be rejected as lacking adequate foundation, but it's highly rare for a person offered as an expert witness to be rejected out of hand by the judge solely on the basis of his qualifications.)

For example, I'd think just about anyone with a USPA "D", or even a "C" license would probably be allowed by most whuffo trial judges testify as an expert witness in skydiving. But if, hypothetically, some guy with, say, 80 jumps and a "B" license were to be offered as an expert witness in skydiving, and the (layperson/whuffo) judge allowed him to testify as such, then "Voila!!" that person would now be an expert witness.

And if, in the future, that former witness decides to parade out the term "court-certified expert witness" in his resume, promotional literature or signature line, to make it appear to others that he has been anointed with some manner of "certified" expertise greater than other people in his field, who's to stop him? Well, other than someone telling him to STFU, probably nobody.

ha, ha, thanks for that, andy.

of course you're right. this is the same thing as peeps who imply that their jump numbers (or alleged) jump numbers make them smarter and wiser and more cool.

Funny how you didn't call me on d5533 and base 44 though - same thing.

even funnier is how much a rise i got out of y'all for that one little thing there... over on basejumper.com i get the same blah-blah when i post my base #.

but anyway, since you don't take PMs, let me say this publicly; i like reading all your stuff, andy908; you're almost always spot on and pretty much always factually accurate (including this post).

d553
base44
ccr55
ccs37
and yes, court-certified expert witness for BASE Cool



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