Forums: Skydiving: Wind Tunnels:
Do not fall for Paraclete XP marketing!

 


withoutwings  (C License)

Jan 19, 2010, 9:15 PM
Post #1 of 23 (4186 views)
Shortcut
Do not fall for Paraclete XP marketing! Can't Post

This post isn't meant to bash Paraclete at all - great tunnel. But for those of you considering "sending a skydiver to Congress" and paying a flat rate for "unlimited tunnel time," best to stay away.

The last time they did this they upset over 50 fliers who paid a lot of money (and some drove thousands of miles) to fly for an advertised "unlimited" amount of time over the course of 14 hours.

1. 14 hours (something they even printed on shirts) was actually 11.5. The tunnel didn't operate for the advertised amount of time.

2. They limited everyone who showed up to a total of 15 minutes in the tunnel from 6:30PM to 6AM.

3. After donating $250 to the owner's campaign to fly for 15 minutes, we found that they only charge $237 for a 15 minute block.

Now they're offering the same deal ("unlimited") for $100 MORE than last time.

Like I said, not trying to speak ill of Paraclete XP, but pay the normal rate for your own block - don't think you're getting something extra by donating.

Blue skies, all.


wildcard451  (D License)

Jan 20, 2010, 5:36 AM
Post #2 of 23 (4080 views)
Shortcut
Re: [withoutwings] Do not fall for Paraclete XP marketing! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
This post isn't meant to bash Paraclete at all - great tunnel. But for those of you considering "sending a skydiver to Congress" and paying a flat rate for "unlimited tunnel time," best to stay away.

The last time they did this they upset over 50 fliers who paid a lot of money (and some drove thousands of miles) to fly for an advertised "unlimited" amount of time over the course of 14 hours.

1. 14 hours (something they even printed on shirts) was actually 11.5. The tunnel didn't operate for the advertised amount of time.

2. They limited everyone who showed up to a total of 15 minutes in the tunnel from 6:30PM to 6AM.

3. After donating $250 to the owner's campaign to fly for 15 minutes, we found that they only charge $237 for a 15 minute block.

Now they're offering the same deal ("unlimited") for $100 MORE than last time.

Like I said, not trying to speak ill of Paraclete XP, but pay the normal rate for your own block - don't think you're getting something extra by donating.

Blue skies, all.

Unlimited time divided among those showing up - even at 14 hours and 50 people, that is only 16.8 minutes per person. Do you deserve more "unlimited" time than someone else?
That's the reason I didn't go. My friends and I were smart enough to figure out how many were going and do some simple math. Sorry you weren't able to do the same.

Sounds like you got exactly what was marketed, with the exception of the 14 hours. That sucks. However, you only lost 1.8 minutes.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Jan 20, 2010, 6:54 AM
Post #3 of 23 (4038 views)
Shortcut
Re: [withoutwings] Do not fall for Paraclete XP marketing! [In reply to] Can't Post

I doubt XP management cares about your comments. After all, even without special deals that may or may not materialize, they still have Kirk Verner, who - during an exchange about another tunnel's marketing efforts - showed the utmost of modesty when he said to me "My resume and insane amount of jumping has been enough of a draw to most skydivers." That, by the way, is an exact quote.

I suppose Kirk doesn't understand that skydivers don't exactly go to tunnels for the manager's resume or "insane amount of jumps".


RPC1117  (C 37095)

Jan 20, 2010, 9:26 AM
Post #4 of 23 (3968 views)
Shortcut
Re: [chuckakers] Do not fall for Paraclete XP marketing! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I suppose Kirk doesn't understand that skydivers don't exactly go to tunnels for the manager's resume or "insane amount of jumps".

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that there are plenty of skydivers that go to XP because of Kirk's resume. I think many have found that due to his "insane amount of jumps", he kind of knows what he's talking about. Additionally, Kirk is a very nice guy and a great coach. If he is a bit modest, I for one, take it with a grain of salt and appreciate that one of the people that helped get Airspeed to where they are today, is lending his expertise to me.

Also, I think that XP's advertisement for this event is pretty clear: 12 Hours for 30 (max) people. It isn't hard to do the math...if everyone does solo time, everyone will get 24 mins. If you want more time for the money, get in groups. A 4 way group could get 1hr, 36mins. By my calculation, that is a savings of $120 for the group if you were to buy that much time straight off the website.

**Disclaimer - I'm not sponsored by XP, I don't work for them, and I'm pretty sure Kirk isn't my dad....but I have helped them pay the bills over that past few years - End Disclaimer**


soulbabel

Jan 20, 2010, 10:45 AM
Post #5 of 23 (3927 views)
Shortcut
Re: [RPC1117] Do not fall for Paraclete XP marketing! [In reply to] Can't Post

His issue is not with Paraclete XP's usual marketing, but just with the "Send a skydiver to congress" event they had in December.
http://www.paracletexp.com/node/108

Basically, there were a few variables that could affect how much flight time you would receive. How many people that showed up, and whatever time the first regular flight was at the next morning (which was 6:30am originally, but became 5:30am closer to the event). Most people got the headcount of attendees from Paracletes facebook page or website, which said 4 people at first, and then was later updated to 13 or 14. I'm pretty sure it was true at the time of posting, but the headcount was never updated after that, so attendance ballooned to 50 people since so many people thought they'd get insane amounts of tunnel time. The only way to find out the true headcount was to call the campaign headquarters, as they were the ones actually handling the reservations.

I was the 8th person to register and attended the event, and I felt sorry for the people I met who came from Ontario, CA, and Massachusetts, etc, expecting an incredible deal on tunnel time. At least for the second event they are running, it has a limit of 30 people and an actual start and ending time. I would just advise anyone trying to get an accurate headcount to contact the campaign headquarters, as opposed to Paraclete XP's front desk.

I actually think it's a decent deal if you want to go out there and do some belly flying with new people (or friends), and combine your times to get the most out of it. I wouldn't expect to find many freeflyers though, so those wanting to learn freefly and fly their times solo, you'll probably be flying 3 minutes every 90 minutes, if they keep the same structure of 10 flyers in every 30 minute block.


George_ORH  (A 56738)

Jan 20, 2010, 11:40 AM
Post #6 of 23 (3889 views)
Shortcut
Re: [soulbabel] Do not fall for Paraclete XP marketing! [In reply to] Can't Post

Well. I have signed up to go and get some of this tunnel time. I am newer to the skydiving scene and only have about 45 jumps currently. I am hoping to improve in several areas on freeflying,,,

After reading this, I really hope this trip pays off,.. Its probably a one time shot for me for a while. I'm flying into the area for the night and back out the next day.......

ug...


George_ORH  (A 56738)

Jan 20, 2010, 11:42 AM
Post #7 of 23 (3887 views)
Shortcut
Re: [George_ORH] Do not fall for Paraclete XP marketing! [In reply to] Can't Post

On another note, I am also going at it alone and was just hoping to meet up with some experienced people and learn some from them..


withoutwings  (C License)

Jan 20, 2010, 5:30 PM
Post #8 of 23 (3750 views)
Shortcut
Re: [wildcard451] Do not fall for Paraclete XP marketing! [In reply to] Can't Post

"That's the reason I didn't go. My friends and I were smart enough to figure out how many were going and do some simple math. Sorry you weren't able to do the same. "

You and your brilliant friends might want a refund on those math degrees, since 7-13 people over the course of 14 hours = more than 1 hour each. Did you mean you're psychic? Because nobody posted a final count on how many were registered. So what figures were you using for your simple math?

I was the first to register, my friend was #2. We drove from Massachusetts thinking we were getting something we didn't. I called before I donated and was told 6 days before the event that only 7 people were listed, so I did my research. My point for this post was not to start a fight (even though there's always one to kick it off), it was to help those who might be considering spending the $350 they're advertising now. I'm not picking on Kirk or XP. I'm picking on the campaign.

Also, I fully understand they didn't plan on 54 of us showing up, but they should have capped it, like they're doing this time around. They're just charging $100 more as well.


withoutwings  (C License)

Jan 20, 2010, 5:34 PM
Post #9 of 23 (3748 views)
Shortcut
Re: [soulbabel] Do not fall for Paraclete XP marketing! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
His issue is not with Paraclete XP's usual marketing, but just with the "Send a skydiver to congress" event they had in December.
http://www.paracletexp.com/node/108

Basically, there were a few variables that could affect how much flight time you would receive. How many people that showed up, and whatever time the first regular flight was at the next morning (which was 6:30am originally, but became 5:30am closer to the event). Most people got the headcount of attendees from Paracletes facebook page or website, which said 4 people at first, and then was later updated to 13 or 14. I'm pretty sure it was true at the time of posting, but the headcount was never updated after that, so attendance ballooned to 50 people since so many people thought they'd get insane amounts of tunnel time. The only way to find out the true headcount was to call the campaign headquarters, as they were the ones actually handling the reservations.

I was the 8th person to register and attended the event, and I felt sorry for the people I met who came from Ontario, CA, and Massachusetts, etc, expecting an incredible deal on tunnel time. At least for the second event they are running, it has a limit of 30 people and an actual start and ending time. I would just advise anyone trying to get an accurate headcount to contact the campaign headquarters, as opposed to Paraclete XP's front desk.

I actually think it's a decent deal if you want to go out there and do some belly flying with new people (or friends), and combine your times to get the most out of it. I wouldn't expect to find many freeflyers though, so those wanting to learn freefly and fly their times solo, you'll probably be flying 3 minutes every 90 minutes, if they keep the same structure of 10 flyers in every 30 minute block.

I totally agree, combined times works to everyone's advantage. Unfortunately I'm a freeflyer so I wasn't able to cash in on that. Either way, awesome tunnel, met some nice peeps.


wildcard451  (D License)

Jan 20, 2010, 7:42 PM
Post #10 of 23 (3697 views)
Shortcut
Re: [withoutwings] Do not fall for Paraclete XP marketing! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
"That's the reason I didn't go. My friends and I were smart enough to figure out how many were going and do some simple math. Sorry you weren't able to do the same. "

You and your brilliant friends might want a refund on those math degrees, since 7-13 people over the course of 14 hours = more than 1 hour each. Did you mean you're psychic? Because nobody posted a final count on how many were registered. So what figures were you using for your simple math?

I was the first to register, my friend was #2. We drove from Massachusetts thinking we were getting something we didn't. I called before I donated and was told 6 days before the event that only 7 people were listed, so I did my research. My point for this post was not to start a fight (even though there's always one to kick it off), it was to help those who might be considering spending the $350 they're advertising now. I'm not picking on Kirk or XP. I'm picking on the campaign.

Also, I fully understand they didn't plan on 54 of us showing up, but they should have capped it, like they're doing this time around. They're just charging $100 more as well.

-Psychic no. Stupid enough to think that only 7-13 people we gonna show up for "unlimited tunnel time" - nope.

Hell, there were about 15 people from my DZ alone that thought about going. Figure that just from one DZ and yeah, doesn't take much intelligence to figure out there will be an overwhelming response.Crazy

Don't try to take a stab at me when you couldn't figure something that simple out. Sorry you came all that way for so little. Apparently Tim's campaign learned from the mistake and are capping this one.


withoutwings  (C License)

Jan 21, 2010, 1:14 AM
Post #11 of 23 (3650 views)
Shortcut
Re: [wildcard451] Do not fall for Paraclete XP marketing! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
"That's the reason I didn't go. My friends and I were smart enough to figure out how many were going and do some simple math. Sorry you weren't able to do the same. "

You and your brilliant friends might want a refund on those math degrees, since 7-13 people over the course of 14 hours = more than 1 hour each. Did you mean you're psychic? Because nobody posted a final count on how many were registered. So what figures were you using for your simple math?

I was the first to register, my friend was #2. We drove from Massachusetts thinking we were getting something we didn't. I called before I donated and was told 6 days before the event that only 7 people were listed, so I did my research. My point for this post was not to start a fight (even though there's always one to kick it off), it was to help those who might be considering spending the $350 they're advertising now. I'm not picking on Kirk or XP. I'm picking on the campaign.

Also, I fully understand they didn't plan on 54 of us showing up, but they should have capped it, like they're doing this time around. They're just charging $100 more as well.

-Psychic no. Stupid enough to think that only 7-13 people we gonna show up for "unlimited tunnel time" - nope.

Hell, there were about 15 people from my DZ alone that thought about going. Figure that just from one DZ and yeah, doesn't take much intelligence to figure out there will be an overwhelming response.Crazy

Don't try to take a stab at me when you couldn't figure something that simple out. Sorry you came all that way for so little. Apparently Tim's campaign learned from the mistake and are capping this one.

ME take a stab? Coming from the person who doled out the initial and completely unprovoked intelligence insult? We get it - you guys figured it all out before even knowing how many people signed up. Amazing. I don't know why people like you feel the need to pick a fight with backhanded childish retorts rather than just be a grown-up and participate in the discussion, but keep it where your ego is worshiped - around your genius DZ.

I expect you have to have the last word, so let's get it over with so we can be done here.


DanG  (D 22351)

Jan 21, 2010, 5:35 AM
Post #12 of 23 (3602 views)
Shortcut
Re: [withoutwings] Do not fall for Paraclete XP marketing! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
around your genius DZ.

To wildcard451: Hey Brandon, can you cover for me at tonight's group discussion on string theory by the hanging harness? I've got some brain surgery scheduled and then have to rush over to the rocket design meeting by the bonfire.


wildcard451  (D License)

Jan 21, 2010, 6:34 AM
Post #13 of 23 (3585 views)
Shortcut
Re: [DanG] Do not fall for Paraclete XP marketing! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
around your genius DZ.

To wildcard451: Hey Brandon, can you cover for me at tonight's group discussion on string theory by the hanging harness? I've got some brain surgery scheduled and then have to rush over to the rocket design meeting by the bonfire.

I thought I was doing the operation? Oh well, string theory it is then.
/brain surgery bores me anyway
//no really, it does.

In all seriousness though, to the OP: I hope you have learned a valuable life lesson here. TANSTAAFL. And if it seems to good to be true, it probably is, and you should put a little more thought into it before you rush headlong to be #1 in line.
Think of it like this - you're beta testing Windows 8 and then bitching that something is broken.


RPC1117  (C 37095)

Jan 21, 2010, 7:24 AM
Post #14 of 23 (3558 views)
Shortcut
Re: [soulbabel] Do not fall for Paraclete XP marketing! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
His issue is not with Paraclete XP's usual marketing, but just with the "Send a skydiver to congress" event they had in December.
http://www.paracletexp.com/node/108

Basically, there were a few variables that could affect how much flight time you would receive. How many people that showed up, and whatever time the first regular flight was at the next morning (which was 6:30am originally, but became 5:30am closer to the event). Most people got the headcount of attendees from Paracletes facebook page or website, which said 4 people at first, and then was later updated to 13 or 14. I'm pretty sure it was true at the time of posting, but the headcount was never updated after that, so attendance ballooned to 50 people since so many people thought they'd get insane amounts of tunnel time. The only way to find out the true headcount was to call the campaign headquarters, as they were the ones actually handling the reservations.

I was the 8th person to register and attended the event, and I felt sorry for the people I met who came from Ontario, CA, and Massachusetts, etc, expecting an incredible deal on tunnel time. At least for the second event they are running, it has a limit of 30 people and an actual start and ending time. I would just advise anyone trying to get an accurate headcount to contact the campaign headquarters, as opposed to Paraclete XP's front desk.

I actually think it's a decent deal if you want to go out there and do some belly flying with new people (or friends), and combine your times to get the most out of it. I wouldn't expect to find many freeflyers though, so those wanting to learn freefly and fly their times solo, you'll probably be flying 3 minutes every 90 minutes, if they keep the same structure of 10 flyers in every 30 minute block.

I wasn't replying to the OP. I was replying to Chuck's post/jab about Kirk. While I am sorry that the OP didn't get as much flying time as he wanted, I have to kind of agree with what others are saying.

Also, there was a poster on here that was new (45 jumps) and wanted to work on freeflying. That person needs to make sure that they understand the freefly progression in the tunnel. You aren't going to be able to just show up at the tunnel, meet a couple of people that are freefliers, and then jump in the tunnel and sit fly with them. You go through a progression, starting with back flying. You mentioned that you are hoping to get alot out of this event and b/c of whatever reason you won't be able to get back to the tunnel in the near future. My advice is to make sure you know what the tunnel will allow you to do. This event could be great for you...but if you don't get as much time as you wanted and don't get to jump in and sit fly, you may think you got short changed. Call the tunnel and let them know your situation...talk to a coach before you go so you have you expectations set.


George_ORH  (A 56738)

Jan 21, 2010, 7:38 AM
Post #15 of 23 (3549 views)
Shortcut
Re: [RPC1117] Do not fall for Paraclete XP marketing! [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm the guy with 45 jumps, and am just wanting to improve belly flying skills, I'm not interested in freefly right now.

I was just hoping to hookup with some others and find someone who wouldn't mind sharing time while I'm there.


RPC1117  (C 37095)

Jan 21, 2010, 7:54 AM
Post #16 of 23 (3540 views)
Shortcut
Re: [George_ORH] Do not fall for Paraclete XP marketing! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm the guy with 45 jumps, and am just wanting to improve belly flying skills, I'm not interested in freefly right now.

I was just hoping to hookup with some others and find someone who wouldn't mind sharing time while I'm there.

Gotcha. Your earlier post had mentioned freeflying.
Quote:
I am newer to the skydiving scene and only have about 45 jumps currently. I am hoping to improve in several areas on freeflying
You certainly may be able to find other belly fliers to fly with. Ask around when you get there.
If this is your first time in the tunnel, make sure you talk to a tunnel rat about getting in and out of the chamber. You may also want to do a few flights solo to get the feel of the wind and make sure you can get stable and control yourself before others are in there with you.
Good luck to ya.


George_ORH  (A 56738)

Jan 21, 2010, 11:12 AM
Post #17 of 23 (3465 views)
Shortcut
Re: [RPC1117] Do not fall for Paraclete XP marketing! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks and will do... i must of had freeflying on the brain when I type that first message (going to edit it now). NO idea why I put that in there.

Thanks,
George


George_ORH  (A 56738)

Jan 21, 2010, 11:15 AM
Post #18 of 23 (3462 views)
Shortcut
Re: [George_ORH] Do not fall for Paraclete XP marketing! [In reply to] Can't Post

Am only looking to do some Belly stuff and NO freeflying...NOT sure what I was thinking when I put that in there.


soulbabel

Feb 1, 2010, 6:46 PM
Post #19 of 23 (2945 views)
Shortcut
Re: [withoutwings] Do not fall for Paraclete XP marketing! [In reply to] Can't Post

The event happened last night, I heard only about 13 people showed up.


George_ORH  (A 56738)

Feb 2, 2010, 2:44 PM
Post #20 of 23 (2784 views)
Shortcut
Re: [soulbabel] Do not fall for Paraclete XP marketing! [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't make it myself. I was caught up in an airport with Delta telling me "good luck" getting there. Hopefully I will make the next one with no issues!!!!!!!


skydivinbmxer  (C License)

Feb 16, 2010, 4:30 PM
Post #21 of 23 (2493 views)
Shortcut
Re: [George_ORH] Do not fall for Paraclete XP marketing! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I didn't make it myself. I was caught up in an airport with Delta telling me "good luck" getting there. Hopefully I will make the next one with no issues!!!!!!!

i hate delta persoanbly they screwed my family when we went to disney world and wouldnt refund our plane tickets after we paid for the extra insurace.. they basicly told us to bad.. never fly delta again..


daveverner  (D 968)

Feb 25, 2010, 10:41 AM
Post #22 of 23 (2263 views)
Shortcut
Re: [RPC1117] Do not fall for Paraclete XP marketing! [In reply to] Can't Post

RPC1117 I'm pretty sure I am Kirk Verner's Dad Dave Verner D-968


daveverner  (D 968)

Feb 25, 2010, 10:43 AM
Post #23 of 23 (2262 views)
Shortcut
Re: [RPC1117] Do not fall for Paraclete XP marketing! [In reply to] Can't Post

oops Chuck that was meant for rcp1117 Dave Verner



Forums : Skydiving : Wind Tunnels

 


Search for (options)