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Hand Cam Techniques

 

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skydived19006  (D 19006)

Dec 15, 2009, 6:29 AM
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Hand Cam Techniques Can't Post

I thought that the Instructors forum would be appropriate since all HC is done by an instructor, and many here may not pay much attention to the Photography Video forum.

I値l skip the pre jump stuff since it痴 pretty much the same as would be done with traditional video. I知 by no means an authority, but will share what I do. This is intended to be a discussion, not a training by me.

I typically leave the 182 second and facing rear. As we scoot to the left, and back toward the door, I値l shoot the first pair through the side window, then stick my left hand (camera) out the door as the first tandem leaves and watch them go for about three seconds.

Left hand goes to the strut as we climb out so facing the tail, I値l put it in front of us for a second or two before rolling off.

I don稚 much concern myself with the camera before the drogue goes out. I roll off of a 182 tapping the students knees as we go over. This puts the camera at our knees looking back up at faces. Left arm out to deploy the drogue.

Once the drogue is out and if the sun is high overhead I turn and put the camera in our shadow. If our faces are shaded, and the camera is in the sun, my opinion is that it doesn稚 work so well. If the sun is low in the sky I値l put our face/left side to the sun. Sometimes do a 360 with the camera more to the left getting the sunset/sunrise/clouds, etc.

I tend to leave the camera in the same position in our faces for the entirety of the free-fall (30 seconds from a 182), but plan to try mixing it up a bit with different angles such as arm straight out to the left, maybe over head looking somewhat downward, etc.

For opening, I値l move my left hand to the student痴 waist shooting toward the opening canopy and/or our faces.

Once open, I値l correct heading with right riser and do a quick interview. Pause camera, adjust harness, get the toggles, release lowers, etc. I値l let the student do all the steering, and assist with right turns for a bit with multiple angles (camera high looking down, camera low looking up, etc.), with the left hand in the toggles the video tends to be fairly shaky. Flatten out, and do a little more interview, then pause again. By 1000 I値l pick up the flair toggles, and start recording again. At this point I知 more concerned with pattern and traffic, but as long as you keep in the back of your mind the angle of your left wrist, we池e still in frame all the way through flair.

I知 always in the air with the same two guys (one at a time), we値l often fly parallel, talk, and do a little canopy/canopy video. You do have to be within 10 or 15 considering the lens.

If I land first of the two thandems, I値l shoot the second pair landing. Post interview, hug, etc., 5 seconds of sky, done.

We all use .25 lenses.

Here's an example of my video:
http://www.youtube.com/...&feature=related


skyjump122  (D 20797)

Dec 15, 2009, 9:08 AM
Post #2 of 57 (4333 views)
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Re: [skydived19006] Hand Cam Techniques [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks,
Not only for starting the thread but for sharing the dive flow. One thing that I kind of wondered about was disconnecting the lowers - do you loosen and re-attach? I only mention it because I was taught to not land with them disconnected. If you happen to fall forward on landing and the student sits this could result in a serious injury, or broken neck. I don't want to start things off wrong, I just kind of picked up on that. I loosen and if needed disconnect, but then re-attach immediately. I saw the shot of the first tandem leaving before you and love it! My exit is a little bit different, the drogue is on the right - Strong.
Again thanks


skydived19006  (D 19006)

Dec 15, 2009, 9:30 AM
Post #3 of 57 (4327 views)
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Re: [skyjump122] Hand Cam Techniques [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought that disconnecting lowers was standard, 2000 tandems never an issue with landing. I also thought that all drogues were right side.

On topic; another thing I picked up somewhere, since we "edit in camera" it looks good if you pause a lot, makes the finished product look "edited." Frame the next shot before starting the camera, this works for ground, and airplane portions, not really applicable during the skydive.

Another routine shot I try to get, and with cooperation of the sun, is the shadow "leaving" as we lift off. Since I'm in the back, I can shoot out either right or left windows.

One of the best things anyone can do to learn dive flow, angles, etc., is to simply watch other guys work. Take what you find as positive, and note the negatives.

When I started, ordered my glove, lens, etc., I'd never even seen a hand cam video. I bought a glove from riggerrob, and asked him to send me something showing his work. Rob sent me a mini-dv tape, and off we went. We were still practicing, and even before we had a lens (I think I had my .5 on), and the majority of folks wanted to purchase the video.

Here's a more recent hc vid, snow on the ground, student doing a sweet jesture in free fall. His Gmom was the other tandem, maybe this was an inside greeting to her?

http://www.youtube.com/...&feature=related

Martin


(This post was edited by skydived19006 on Dec 15, 2009, 10:18 AM)


efs4ever  (D 7014)

Dec 16, 2009, 9:24 AM
Post #4 of 57 (4246 views)
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Re: [skydived19006] Hand Cam Techniques [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I thought that disconnecting lowers was standard, 2000 tandems never an issue with landing. I also thought that all drogues were right side.

On topic; another thing I picked up somewhere, since we "edit in camera" it looks good if you pause a lot, makes the finished product look "edited." Frame the next shot before starting the camera, this works for ground, and airplane portions, not really applicable during the skydive.

Another routine shot I try to get, and with cooperation of the sun, is the shadow "leaving" as we lift off. Since I'm in the back, I can shoot out either right or left windows.

One of the best things anyone can do to learn dive flow, angles, etc., is to simply watch other guys work. Take what you find as positive, and note the negatives.

When I started, ordered my glove, lens, etc., I'd never even seen a hand cam video. I bought a glove from riggerrob, and asked him to send me something showing his work. Rob sent me a mini-dv tape, and off we went. We were still practicing, and even before we had a lens (I think I had my .5 on), and the majority of folks wanted to purchase the video.

Here's a more recent hc vid, snow on the ground, student doing a sweet jesture in free fall. His Gmom was the other tandem, maybe this was an inside greeting to her?

http://www.youtube.com/...&feature=related

Martin

My YouTube or FB videos are crunched down to 90 seconds. Of course, if student uploads it will be full length.

I always disconnect sides and reconnect on the front of the pax harness. They should NEVER be left loose.

Nice video. System?


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Dec 16, 2009, 9:43 AM
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Re: [efs4ever] Hand Cam Techniques [In reply to] Can't Post

"....
In reply to:
In reply to:
I thought that disconnecting lowers was standard, 2000 tandems never an issue with landing. I also thought that all drogues were right side.

.... I always disconnect sides and reconnect on the front of the pax harness. They should NEVER be left loose. ..."

...................................................................

Strong Enterprises recommends loosening side straps after you have a well-behaved main canopy over head.
If you have difficulty loosening side straps, they may be disconnected, then re-hooked to the side rings on the instructor's harness.
Loose side straps make it easier to stand up landings.
SEI discourages landing with side straps disconnected because it increases the risk of broken necks if the student does a butt slide, while the instructor does a knee slide. If the tandem pair spread too far, they risk neck injuries.
The worst case scenario has side strap hooks dangling loose, just waiting to grab a steering toggle.


skydived19006  (D 19006)

Dec 16, 2009, 9:48 AM
Post #6 of 57 (4240 views)
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Re: [efs4ever] Hand Cam Techniques [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
...
Nice video. System?

As in how do we edit? I still edit analog with a cheep video titler, and separate analog audio mixer. The camera is a PC9 with Waycool .25 Black eye lens and protector. We're now using royalty free music from Hark. Some of the customers would prefer pirated music, but they're not the ones in line for the fines. Whenever someone asks about music, I simply inform then that I have rights to use this music and will not violate copyright laws. Also that it can be up to multiple violations for each video, running as high as $25,000 per violation. If they prefer I'll give them raw video and they can do whatever they like with it.

http://www.harkproductions.com/music/index.html

With royalty free music, it'll never have the audio removed on sites such as youtube.


RIGGER  (D 7933)

Dec 16, 2009, 1:41 PM
Post #7 of 57 (4214 views)
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Re: [skydived19006] Hand Cam Techniques [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile Hi

First saying: all is IMO - No personal issues - I use the video as a model for what was given away IMO by a TI for the Handy Cam work.

Also saw some other point which are ??? for me.

I watched the video few times & have some PRO points / questions:
1.It looks like the camera is not secured on take off - it might be risky if flying in the cabin & hit the pilot, yourselves or students.
2.Why the students are not sitting between both TI's legs for quick harness attachment in case of bailing out at any time before "Attachment Altitude", the way they sit far from you & the C182 goes unstable how they will be attached to both of you ? From what I see there is room for the students to sit in between the TI's legs -athe aircraft is over 6500' & the students are still far from both TI's.
3.Exit & Drogue deploy - NO deployed drogue check (watch up) & NO handles check - why a TI is so sure that all is good above his/her back & all handles are there as should ? During free fall her left hand is around the TI's left hand / TI's left hand is in front of her (Handy cam)- risky !!! Looking at the 1st exit I try to see why the TI is holding the student with his right hand aroud the student right side
4.Main canopy deployment - long time before canopy check.
5.When flying under canopy with the student free at the hips - the free hardware is well seen facing up - what a TI will do if have to cutaway from any reason ?
if too loose & floating the hardware might catch the steering lines, this is also a risky mode for landing.
6. At some point before landing the lady student has her hands high at her shoulder level very close to the cutaway & reserve handles - easy to grip by her - the student should hold his legs UP helping his legs with the hands. At any time the student is not holding the steering toggles - keep his/her hands FAR from the TI's cutaway & reserve ripcords!!!

Wink I would say that soft helmets for the students & a soft/hard helmet for the TI's will be much better for any reason.

Ti's, you might feel you do great & all is good but too much of PRO TI training was given up in the video From Take Off to Landing.

All IMO based on my training & the way I train by UPT's manual.

Happy New Year


(This post was edited by RIGGER on Dec 16, 2009, 2:09 PM)


skydived19006  (D 19006)

Dec 16, 2009, 1:52 PM
Post #8 of 57 (4205 views)
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Re: [RIGGER] Hand Cam Techniques [In reply to] Can't Post

Shlomo,

All points worth consideration. The one that is a very scary scenario is the parental of a student pulling a main release handle below reserve deployment altitude.

I think I'll start another thread.


RIGGER  (D 7933)

Dec 16, 2009, 2:12 PM
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Re: [skydived19006] Hand Cam Techniques [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile Hi Martin

Thanks.

All time we can talk & study from each other is fine.

Too many Tandem killing & accidents during 2009 & the past years.

I hope I did gave some valid points.

Happy New Year & Safe Tandems !!!


skydived19006  (D 19006)

Dec 16, 2009, 2:22 PM
Post #10 of 57 (4193 views)
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Re: [RIGGER] Hand Cam Techniques [In reply to] Can't Post

Shlomo,

All points worth consideration. I've even sent an email around to a bunch of the Kansas TIs with your comments. A bit of an electronic safety meeting for Kansas TIs. Always good to discuss these things, never know, a little bit of knowledge, or change in procedure could save someone's life, maybe even mine!

It would be a shame to deprive the world of my opinions! Besides that, my wife would be REALLY pissed at me!

Martin


skyjump122  (D 20797)

Dec 16, 2009, 3:45 PM
Post #11 of 57 (4178 views)
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Re: [RIGGER] Hand Cam Techniques [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Rigger,
Your points are well taken, let me addresss a few.
1) I tried a short lanyard but that posed it's own risks. Unlike a helmet the camera will fit down the front of my jumpsuit at the first sign of a problem.
2) If we are the first tandem out the student is between my legs. If we have a solo jumper getting out low then the student is in the back facing forward.
If we are last again facing forward in the back. In all cases the student is seatbelted in until hookup. I have had to do a quick hookup and the student rolls over onto knees, it works. Our plane is a 185 and holds 5 jumpers. ( I could get into more detail )
3) I do a handles check on every jump - when you see the shot of the drogue in droguefall, that is the result of my checking the reserve handle, after checking the others in sequence.
4) depends what you consider long I guess.
5) I loosen but keep connected just by tugging the friction adapters.
6) The students hands are in the toggles helping with the flare. I teach them to finish the flare with their hands at the top of the thighs. This teaches them to finish the flare, and keep their hands in.
I also do at least 2 practice landings while still up high.
One thing I picked up on from the Jump Shack recommendations is to film the practice landings.
I think I will begin shooting that, and the practice arches before the jump.

I prefer to have the camera paused during set up and landing - I want my full attention devoted to the landing. I take a shot of the ground below. I later edit with a cross zoom to the on the ground reaction shot.
Another good thing is to give the student the job of carrying back the drogue & bag. You can be filming that as they walk & talk. But the big thing is, it gives them something to do other than find a propeller to walk into. It's like keeping them, and any friends on a leash.

Martin sorry I misunderstood, I thought you said you pitched the drogue with the left - didn't make sense to me either - but then I don't know what you jump.
Thanks


skyjump122  (D 20797)

Dec 16, 2009, 4:07 PM
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Re: [skydived19006] Hand Cam Techniques [In reply to] Can't Post

Almost forgotTongue
Thanks for the music link - Iv'e been looking for a good place to go for royalty free tunes.
Sony pc-109
I edit with an Apple Powerbook G4
Final Cut Express HD. I have been thinking of going to an HD cam, but you need a Blu-Ray burner to sell HD video right? Not to mention buying a new glove too $$$$$$$
Jump Strong - SET 400


rhys  (D 95)

Dec 17, 2009, 3:46 PM
Post #13 of 57 (4114 views)
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Re: [RIGGER] Hand Cam Techniques [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
3.Exit & Drogue deploy - NO deployed drogue check (watch up) & NO handles check - why a TI is so sure that all is good above his/her back & all handles are there as should ? During free fall her left hand is around the TI's left hand / TI's left hand is in front of her (Handy cam)- risky !!!

I look at my drogue, not everytime but I do look. It should feel the same everytime, sometimes it 'feels' like i'm going mauch faster so i check but for the most part, once you have 2000+ tandems you should be able to feel that everything is O.K, I use my feet to ensure there is no entanglement with my sudents feet ( a concern of mine) but if the drouge is not deployed correctly you should know just by what happens to you.

Handles you can see, at least if you jump in shorts an t shirt like we all do here, in colder climates this can be more of an issue with jumpsuits and extra layers etc.

I will not put the customers video out of frame just to touch the handle when it is plain and obvious that it is in place and visible.

these rules are good to have there, I know of an incident where the TM did not throw the drogue (at all!) and wondered when they pulled the drogue release, why nothong happened.!!!!!! reserve ride wit drouge in pouch after 12k skydive!!!!!!!

That will never happen to me for that I am sure, if it did I would be taking a serious look at myself and reconsidering my career options, awareness is awareness, whether your touch you handle or simply look at it, you 'should' KNOW whether it is in place or not.

I only ever touch the blue golf ball after exit if I have a hard pull on the orange one, 'both' times that has happened It has been no problem locating it as I have touched it many thousands of times over about 6 times each jump even though I hardly ever use it.

How long does it take for somebody to b 'familiar' with something?

That depends, some individuals never quite 'get it'. so that is why we have rules.

I bet none of us follow all the rulles as much as we would like to suggest that we do.

The question then comes down to; who has a good head on thier shoulders?

Some beleive hand cam is a bad idea alogether, these areusually not the ones with a good head on their shoulders.


(This post was edited by rhys on Dec 17, 2009, 4:33 PM)


skydived19006  (D 19006)

Dec 17, 2009, 4:43 PM
Post #14 of 57 (4104 views)
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Re: [rhys] Hand Cam Techniques [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
3.Exit & Drogue deploy - NO deployed drogue check (watch up) & NO handles check - why a TI is so sure that all is good above his/her back & all handles are there as should ? During free fall her left hand is around the TI's left hand / TI's left hand is in front of her (Handy cam)- risky !!!

I can't turn my head enough to see the drogue, so i don's try. I do know what a good drogue feels like, and have had a couple of drogue malfunctions. I know what acceleration, and no drogue fall feels like.

I touch my handles on the airplane, in 2000 tandems never had a floating handle. It may be wrong to not touch handles in freefall, but I don't do it. Why do sport jumpers not do a handle check in freefall? Wouldn't hurt.

I know that some of what I routinely do is taboo, such as not securing the video camera on take off. It's not the best idea in the world, but I do it.

I do not wear a helmet in general, maybe not the best idea but I do it. I could put a frap hat on all students, but I do not.

I've even been known to fall, or fly through a cloud. I obviously am kidding about that, none of us would ever go through a cloud.

I did start an open discussion email among about 10 Kansas TIs discussing Riggers comments.

Martin


skyshimas  (D 29263)

Jan 19, 2010, 10:18 PM
Post #15 of 57 (3976 views)
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Re: [skydived19006] Hand Cam Techniques [In reply to] Can't Post

I would like to ask how long are your videos guys? I try to keep it 5min no more than 6min. Longer than that is boaring to watch for anyone I think.
Some more intresting shots you can get in the cessna: tape out the door while taxiing either facing propeler or tail, just after the take off if I sit in the back I sometimes open cargo door and film lift off, if I sit in the front and interview before hooking up I take a shot of a propeler I think it looks quite nice. Also if the passenger is not trying to pull me out the door then I sometimes keep them out the door for a few extra seconds and it looks sweet on a video with the plane in the background and a horrified face. I also when I turn in free fall I try to do it slowly.


TaylorC  (D 29769)

Jan 19, 2010, 10:54 PM
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Re: [skyshimas] Hand Cam Techniques [In reply to] Can't Post

my hand cam vids are about 5.5 mins. People really only wanna see the freefall. i have espcially noticed this over the last year of watching people watch their videos get made and they dont really pay attention till the door opens and were about ready to jump!


skydived19006  (D 19006)

Jan 20, 2010, 6:30 AM
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Re: [skyshimas] Hand Cam Techniques [In reply to] Can't Post

My videos tend to run 8 to 9 minutes, I run the freefall in slow motion, then again at full speed, throw in the pre-interview, in plane interview, a couple of minutes under canopy, and 30 second post interview, they just end up that long.


skyshimas  (D 29263)

Jan 20, 2010, 6:22 PM
Post #18 of 57 (3902 views)
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Re: [skydived19006] Hand Cam Techniques [In reply to] Can't Post

lenght of the video is probably very dependable on small things like how much one films under canopy. I found that my videos tend to get way too long when I film "intresting" stuff out the window while in the plane. Also a big video time adder is if I turn the camera too early on the landing. Once im in the groove and very current I turn it on just before going into deep brakes for landing this tends to save a lot of useless time on a tape and video itself. I heard some people film all or almost all of the parachute ride and thats just ridiculous in my opinion.


Ron

Feb 9, 2011, 7:41 AM
Post #19 of 57 (3519 views)
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Re: [skydived19006] Hand Cam Techniques [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
It may be wrong to not touch handles in freefall, but I don't do it. Why do sport jumpers not do a handle check in freefall?

Doing a handles check on a tandem is required for some systems. Sport jumpers do not have that same requirement.

You can do a handles check.. It hurts like 3 seconds of footage.

http://www.youtube.com/...rI&feature=feedu


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Feb 9, 2011, 3:15 PM
Post #20 of 57 (3499 views)
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Re: [skydived19006] Hand Cam Techniques [In reply to] Can't Post

>It may be wrong to not touch handles in freefall, but I don't do it. Why do
>sport jumpers not do a handle check in freefall?

Because:

1) sport systems are considerably simpler
2) their handles stick inwards; they don't point outwards
3) tandems have time to do this, unlike (for example) AFF instructors
4) getting a tandem to the door often takes more effort, and more knocking about, than a sport jumper exit
5) sport jumpers aren't attached to a guy who's trying to kill them.


skydived19006  (D 19006)

Feb 9, 2011, 6:48 PM
Post #21 of 57 (3479 views)
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Re: [billvon] Hand Cam Techniques [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
>It may be wrong to not touch handles in freefall, but I don't do it. Why do
>sport jumpers not do a handle check in freefall?

Because:

1) sport systems are considerably simpler
2) their handles stick inwards; they don't point outwards
3) tandems have time to do this, unlike (for example) AFF instructors
4) getting a tandem to the door often takes more effort, and more knocking about, than a sport jumper exit
5) sport jumpers aren't attached to a guy who's trying to kill them.

I do give it one last check while on the step before rolling off. That's the last chance to abort. I will not argue against handle checks, but it was more of an issue with the old student handles and the potential of a floating handle. Now that I think about it I do a handle check at 6,000' and if it's there I pull it. If not I'll move onto the next handle. I have over six seconds of handle check time before reaching 4,500.' I guess I was pretty much wrong after all.

Martin


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Feb 11, 2011, 1:27 PM
Post #22 of 57 (3408 views)
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Re: [skyshimas] Hand Cam Techniques [In reply to] Can't Post

Agreed!
Too much footage - under canopy - can bore audiences.
And lord knows that modern teenaged audiences already have short attention spans!

So I usually film the opening, first questions, the student grabbing the right toggle, then I pause the camera (while holding it over their head).
I turn the camera back on if another tandem flies up on our right side, then pause.

I like to turn the camera on for a vigorous spiral dive, then pause until about 800 feet - in the landing pattern.
Pitt Meadows nailed a landing pattern to the wall over-looking manifest, so I always fly a right-hand landing pattern, which often catches another tandem landing ahead of me. With attention to wrist angle, you can keep the student in frame while landing.
I keep the camera on the student while un-hooking and catch their joy.
If another tandem is landing behind us, I try to film their landing, then I pan to the windsock, clouds, etc. for ten seconds to leave the editor a pleasant background for credits.


steveorino  (D 26782)

Feb 12, 2011, 1:56 PM
Post #23 of 57 (3344 views)
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Re: [skydived19006] Hand Cam Techniques [In reply to] Can't Post

The BEST I have ever seen is Kim Winslow. She keeps them in center from from exit to landing.

https://www.facebook.com/...?v=10150180491810437


jumpdude17  (D License)

Feb 17, 2011, 4:13 PM
Post #24 of 57 (3226 views)
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Re: [billvon] Hand Cam Techniques [In reply to] Can't Post

i am new TI and just started handy, should i worry about wing loading when doing handy?? if i have a big customer should i not do handy?? whats your max wing loading when doing handy??


skydived19006  (D 19006)

Feb 17, 2011, 4:23 PM
Post #25 of 57 (3216 views)
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Re: [jumpdude17] Hand Cam Techniques [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
i am new TI and just started handy, should i worry about wing loading when doing handy?? if i have a big customer should i not do handy?? whats your max wing loading when doing handy??

Shouldn't matter. Don't go heavier than you would be happy with under the reserve and enjoy.


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