Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
Why Velocity is so popular?

 

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Sangi

Nov 24, 2009, 10:00 PM
Post #1 of 107 (5003 views)
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     Why Velocity is so popular?  

So I was always wondering, why's Velocity is the most popular and most jumped out of all the HP Xbraced canopies?

Why wouldn't you want to jump this for example http://www.youtube.com/...&feature=related? The speed is mental and the distance looks really good as well...

I hear people say that Velo is easier to fly than a JVX, so is one of the reasons that most of them can't handle a canopy like this?


flipper  (D 11524)

Nov 24, 2009, 11:34 PM
Post #2 of 107 (4939 views)
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     Re: [Sangi] Why Velocity is so popular? [In reply to]  

Price..availability..brand loyalty..opinion..

They all have a part to play ...



PS - I have both


(This post was edited by flipper on Nov 25, 2009, 1:39 AM)


kj126  (D 28079)

Nov 25, 2009, 12:29 AM
Post #3 of 107 (4923 views)
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     Re: [Sangi] Why Velocity is so popular? [In reply to]  

For me was the availablity of the local (US) dealers and the serious price difference.

But I still picked up a used JVX, and both have there perks.


superstu  (D License)

Nov 25, 2009, 7:38 AM
Post #4 of 107 (4799 views)
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     Re: [Sangi] Why Velocity is so popular? [In reply to]  

i switched to PD primarily because of the customer service. I was tired of getting brushed off once they had my money.

p.s. i would fly PD even if i wasn't sponsored because they treat all their customers like sponsored skydivers when it comes to customer service.


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Nov 25, 2009, 7:59 AM
Post #5 of 107 (4783 views)
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     Re: [Sangi] Why Velocity is so popular? [In reply to]  

Quote:
The speed is mental and the distance looks really good as well...

I take it you've never seen Jay's 678ft distance run?


skreamer

Nov 25, 2009, 9:37 AM
Post #6 of 107 (4738 views)
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     Re: [Sangi] Why Velocity is so popular? [In reply to]  

Quote:
I hear people say that Velo is easier to fly than a JVX, so is one of the reasons that most of them can't handle a canopy like this?

Funny you should say that, because the guy in the vid you chose to post had some issues subsequently handling that very canopy :

Quote:
I bounced my full sail 69 last Christmas; not fun! Pushed it beyond the max; tried to slam on the brakes - but they weighed a TON; & just couldn't do it. So resorted to a scene from sonic the hedgehog! But somehow escaped with just a few hospital days & some sore muscles! (Not on video though; which truly sucks!)
Anyway.. Take it easy! And enjoy ;)

Taken from his comments on this vid : http://www.youtube.com/...&feature=related


frost  (D 25011)

Nov 25, 2009, 9:46 AM
Post #7 of 107 (4731 views)
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     Re: [Sangi] Why Velocity is so popular? [In reply to]  

Quote:
why's Velocity is the most popular and most jumped out of all the HP Xbraced canopies
...Why wouldn't you want to jump this...
Most of the time, I'd say 85-90% of it - this is pure sheep mentality. This is true for anything - skis, skateboards, bikes, whatever. "The top guys use 'x-product', so will i - it will make me better!".

No, it wont.

Quote:
I hear people say that Velo is easier to fly than a JVX
What's easier to fly is a subjective opinion. Very much so.

The only good reason to select a product out of several equally good products is because YOU liked it. The only right way to know for sure what those reasons are is to try all of these products out before deciding.

If Stu tells you that the JVX is different from the Velo in <these areas> and he thinks that based on <these items> Velocity suits his flying style better - then you should have no doubt - he has plenty of experience on both wings. But people that say "Velocity forever!" NEVER having tried any other wing in the same class are just clowns, really.

Customer service is another good point to consider when picking a product. If Brand A gives a great product, but Brand B gives equally good product AND supports it well post sale - then the choice is clear.

If we are talking specifically about JVX and Icarus NZ here, it is my experience that their customer service has improved greatly. Super fast delivery, good communication and a few good extras thrown in for free (3 weeks for a new JVX was my experience, your results may vary). I really hope this trend towards excellent customer service continues and we have two great companies offering awesome products and competing for our dollars as equals on all fronts.


(This post was edited by frost on Nov 25, 2009, 9:48 AM)


matto765

Nov 25, 2009, 10:11 AM
Post #8 of 107 (4711 views)
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     Re: [Sangi] Why Velocity is so popular? [In reply to]  

 
Quote:
Why wouldn't you want to jump this for example http://www.youtube.com/...&feature=related? The speed is mental and the distance looks really good as well...

If you freeze the video at about the 29 second mark, you will notice that this is a downwind swoop based off of the flags. Anything will go "fast" and "far" on a downwind swoop without much effort.

Edit to add: But I'm sure you already knew that, Sangi Wink


(This post was edited by matto765 on Nov 25, 2009, 10:13 AM)


BMFin

Nov 25, 2009, 11:42 AM
Post #9 of 107 (4657 views)
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     Re: [matto765] Why Velocity is so popular? [In reply to]  

Yo but seriously, these vids prove beyond doubt that JVX loaded >4.0 is the bomb !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctvTcMyQsRc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34VOLS4tiQ4

Take no substitute ! Laugh


(This post was edited by BMFin on Nov 25, 2009, 11:43 AM)


TaylorC  (D 29769)

Nov 25, 2009, 11:54 AM
Post #10 of 107 (4647 views)
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     Re: [BMFin] Why Velocity is so popular? [In reply to]  

that is just scary to watch.


matto765

Nov 25, 2009, 12:20 PM
Post #11 of 107 (4627 views)
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     Re: [BMFin] Why Velocity is so popular? [In reply to]  

dude, that is badass CoolCool


champu  (D 28302)

Nov 25, 2009, 2:52 PM
Post #12 of 107 (4559 views)
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     Re: [BMFin] Why Velocity is so popular? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Yo but seriously, these vids prove beyond doubt that JVX loaded >4.0 is the bomb!

Haha, well until they add the "surviving excessive wingloadings" event to swoop comps, I think most people will pass over canopies smaller than about 70 sq ft.


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Nov 25, 2009, 3:37 PM
Post #13 of 107 (4543 views)
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     Re: [champu] Why Velocity is so popular? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I think most people will pass over canopies smaller than about 70 sq ft.
Tell me a reason why should I fly ant sub 70 sq ft canopy.
I got enough wing load even with a 105 anyway.


AggieDave  (D License)

Nov 25, 2009, 4:23 PM
Post #14 of 107 (4524 views)
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     Re: [champu] Why Velocity is so popular? [In reply to]  

Quote:
I think most people will pass over canopies smaller than about 70 sq ft.

I think for the 2010 season I will get a 67. That would put me at about 4.47:1. I bet I can make the biggest splash in Spaceland's pond!

I've jumped a VX and a Velo. The I liked how the Velo opened and flew better then the VX. Simple as that. The fact that PD has outstanding customer service and has had outstanding customer service since I've been in the sport is an added bonus.


skyshimas  (D 29263)

Nov 25, 2009, 7:32 PM
Post #15 of 107 (4461 views)
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     Re: [Sangi] Why Velocity is so popular? [In reply to]  

Some of the reasons are:
1. There is no demo program
2. JVX's haven't been out as long
3. Full sail packs huge so even if you got a demo what would you pack it in.

You seem so sure that JVX is superior to velo and you don't fly either one of them. Cool
I guess its also trendy plus what's your flying style all these things have a say on decision. I would guess your decision would be biased towards velo even if you tried it, only because you have a "fuzzy" feeling when it come to JVX's.


Sangi

Nov 25, 2009, 10:28 PM
Post #16 of 107 (4426 views)
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     Re: [skyshimas] Why Velocity is so popular? [In reply to]  

Yeah I know I don't fly either of them, nor I will for a while...

It's just that it sucks when everywhere you look, it's velo here, velo there, velo this, velo that.. PD team there, PD team here.. You get my point..

Would like some variety here and there...


g3ninfinite  (A 56501)

Nov 25, 2009, 10:38 PM
Post #17 of 107 (4414 views)
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     Re: [Sangi] Why Velocity is so popular? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Yeah I know I don't fly either of them, nor I will for a while...

It's just that it sucks when everywhere you look, it's velo here, velo there, velo this, velo that.. PD team there, PD team here.. You get my point..

Would like some variety here and there...

how does that suck?


Sangi

Nov 25, 2009, 10:50 PM
Post #18 of 107 (4408 views)
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     Re: [g3ninfinite] Why Velocity is so popular? [In reply to]  

In a way that it seems that PD is the monopolist in the skydiving's canopy industry...

Monopolists are never good..


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Nov 26, 2009, 12:59 AM
Post #19 of 107 (4370 views)
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     Re: [Sangi] Why Velocity is so popular? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In a way that it seems that PD is the monopolist in the skydiving's canopy industry...
Why would you call PD as a monopoly?


Sangi

Nov 26, 2009, 1:16 AM
Post #20 of 107 (4367 views)
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     Re: [phoenixlpr] Why Velocity is so popular? [In reply to]  

Everybody wants their products and they're the biggest canopy manufacturer..

They may not fully be that, but they seem to steadily grow towards that position..


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Nov 26, 2009, 1:23 AM
Post #21 of 107 (4360 views)
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     Re: [Sangi] Why Velocity is so popular? [In reply to]  

BS. There are zillions of other canopy manufacturers.


YISkyDive  (D License)

Nov 26, 2009, 1:29 AM
Post #22 of 107 (4358 views)
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     Re: [phoenixlpr] Why Velocity is so popular? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
In a way that it seems that PD is the monopolist in the skydiving's canopy industry...
Why would you call PD as a monopoly?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say hes got a point. I would love to see canopy market share figures but since we dont have that observation is all I got. For every Safire there are many more Sabre2s, for every XF2 that are at least an equal amount or more Katans, for every JVX / VX / Xaos there must be way more Velos.

I don't know if monopoly is the right word but I think there is no contest to whom has the largest market share and not by a small percentage. PD makes a good product and people like the service associated with it but at the same time has the cost of a canopy increased as much as the pricing they have passed onto the customer over the last 5 years? I don't know the answer to that but its food for thought.

Edited to add:

BTW to the OT: I like my Velo a lot. It's a personal choice as I flew Xf2s for awhile as well. The VX / JVX just had a different recovery characteristic that I personally did not like.


(This post was edited by YISkyDive on Nov 26, 2009, 1:46 AM)


beowulf  (C License)

Nov 26, 2009, 6:17 AM
Post #23 of 107 (4277 views)
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     Re: [Sangi] Why Velocity is so popular? [In reply to]  

PD has a big piece of the market, but they are no where near to qualifying as a monopoly. You need to get out more. There is a variety of canopies out there. I don't understand why anyone would dislike a company simply by the size of their market share.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Nov 26, 2009, 6:45 AM
Post #24 of 107 (4266 views)
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     Re: [Sangi] Why Velocity is so popular? [In reply to]  

Quote:
In a way that it seems that PD is the monopolist in the skydiving's canopy industry...

You're crazy if you think that's true.

First off, they've never made any moves to create a monopoly. They've never run another company out of business, and they've never bought another company to eliminate the competition.

What they did was run their company the right way. The built quality products, offered superior customer service, and obviously watched their costs to keep the accountants happy.

What about Icarus? They introduced the Z-po x braced canopy, the FX years ago. Then they had the VX and the Crossfire. All we're hugely popular, and they had a shot at a good slice of the market, but they blew it. Somebody bought this company or sold that compay, then there was 'Icarus here' and Icarus there', and the customers have been suffering ever since. I would be willing to be that if Icarus had opened a US office, where they build, sold and servied their products, they'd have a much bigger piece of the pie.

What about Flight Concepts? They made the Manta, which used to be the gold standard for student canopies, and they had a line of successful Crew canopies, which was great, but where was their Sabre or Sabre2? What did they have to compete with the Stiletto or Spectre? The answer is nothing. Maybe if they had stayed with the times, and invested in R&D, they might be on par with PD today.

PD just did everything right, and the market responded.

Years ago a recent AFF grad was asking one of the instructors about buying his first rig, and mentioned some sort of Icarus or Persicion canopy he read about, and the instructor told him, "If PD don't make it, you don't need it". I agree 100%.


Sangi

Nov 26, 2009, 7:27 AM
Post #25 of 107 (4253 views)
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     Re: [davelepka] Why Velocity is so popular? [In reply to]  

Can you please give me direct examples of how PD customer service is good and how Icarus service is bad?


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