Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
the Saber2 sucks!

 

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ridestrong  (C 38471)

Nov 8, 2009, 8:21 PM
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the Saber2 sucks! Can't Post

Hard openings, closed end cells, and off heading more often than not. Why do so many people by these shitty canopies?


mtbriles  (F 1)

Nov 8, 2009, 8:31 PM
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Re: [ridestrong] the Saber2 sucks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Sure it was a saber2???

Unimpressed


swoopfly  (E License)

Nov 8, 2009, 8:32 PM
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Re: [ridestrong] the Saber2 sucks! [In reply to] Can't Post

hey


well this seems odd, as every sabre2 i have jumped has had nice openings and were most always on heading,. maybe your just not packing it right???, but the canopy seems nice for an all around canopy...the best thing i liked about them was there openings...well before i bought my katana


Couloirman  (A 51997)

Nov 8, 2009, 8:41 PM
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Re: [ridestrong] the Saber2 sucks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hard openings,

You're just new to packing, and you're probably not packing it right

In reply to:
closed end cells

Not a safety issue, you're just new and you get scared when you see it, thinking its a 'malfunction' but if you pump the brakes or risers and it goes away and doesn't affect anything

In reply to:
off heading more often than not

This is skydiving, not BASE jumping, its not a safety issue. You want on heading openings? then open while tracking with a little bit of forward speed. No one can get consistent on headings falling straight down.

In reply to:
Why do so many people by these shitty canopies?

Beacause they're not shitty, they've got kick ass flare power, and a perfect recovery arc for learning how to swoop on.


ridestrong  (C 38471)

Nov 8, 2009, 8:43 PM
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Re: [swoopfly] the Saber2 sucks! [In reply to] Can't Post

I just keep hearing students that are getting off AFF who have only flown a Navagator and their already ordering a Saber2. Please people ride some other canopies first, guarantee you will find something you like better than the Saber2.

Granted I only have ~50 jumps, but about 20 are on the Saber2 and 20 on the Spectre2. I actually prefer the Spectre2 in nearly every aspect. Thankfully I was turned onto the Saphire2 and just got one.... YAY!!!


GLIDEANGLE  (D 30292)

Nov 8, 2009, 8:44 PM
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Re: [ridestrong] the Saber2 sucks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hmmmmmm......

People buy and jump them because they are good canopies. So, have you considered the following as playing a role in one or more of your concerns?

-- Is it being packed correctly?
-- How is your body positon during deployment?
-- Is the line set in trim?
-- Are you using the correct slider?
-- What does your rigger have to say about your canopy?


GLIDEANGLE  (D 30292)

Nov 8, 2009, 8:47 PM
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Re: [ridestrong] the Saber2 sucks! [In reply to] Can't Post

"Spectre2"

And that would be what?


mtbriles  (F 1)

Nov 8, 2009, 8:50 PM
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Re: [ridestrong] the Saber2 sucks! [In reply to] Can't Post

when did they come out with the spectre2???

Unimpressed


ridestrong  (C 38471)

Nov 8, 2009, 8:50 PM
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Re: [GLIDEANGLE] the Saber2 sucks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
"Spectre2"

And that would be what?

just meant to say Spectre...


diablopilot  (D License)

Nov 8, 2009, 8:52 PM
Post #10 of 126 (5134 views)
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Re: [Couloirman] the Saber2 sucks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
In reply to:
off heading more often than not

This is skydiving, not BASE jumping, its not a safety issue. You want on heading openings? then open while tracking with a little bit of forward speed. No one can get consistent on headings falling straight down.


Really? It is a safety issue. Having a 180 when skydiving with groups can turn into a problem, fast. An yes people can get consistent on headings while falling straight down. You might want to get a bit more experience on more than one or two types of parachute before making such a sweeping generalization.

And I agree with the OP. They do open hard from time to time, inconsistently, with closed end cells, and a higher than normal percentage of line twists than I see out of other designs. But then for some time, PD has been focusing on flight more than openings.


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Nov 8, 2009, 9:24 PM
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Re: [ridestrong] the Saber2 sucks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi ride,

Quote:
Why do so many people by these shitty canopies?

I cannot tell you why they buy them but I can tell you that it is the most popular canopy that PD sells; I know because the PD V-P told me so.

JerryBaumchen

PS) I also cannot tell you why some guys like blondes and some other guys like redheads. Wink


hackish  (No License)

Nov 8, 2009, 9:35 PM
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Re the Saber2 sucks! [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it's tough to criticize one of the most popular canopies in the air. They are not known for hard openings (some size sabre1's a different story). They are known for off heading. Closed end cells? Few people I know care enough to complain about it.

Name any canopy and someone will have something bad to say about it. Find something you like and jump it.

-Michael


diablopilot  (D License)

Nov 8, 2009, 9:43 PM
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Re: [hackish] Re the Saber2 sucks! [In reply to] Can't Post

I speak from some experience, here. More than 65 types of parachutes flown, and more than 200 if you count different sizes in those types.

The Sabre 2 suffers from inconsistent openings. The Safire 1 had a very anemic flare. The Pilot needs a full control stroke to land well, where the Sabre 2 flares like many other PD products, with the "meat" of the flare tin the top two thirds of the control stroke.


bigway

Nov 8, 2009, 10:02 PM
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Re: [diablopilot] Re the Saber2 sucks! [In reply to] Can't Post

My first sabre 2 was always off heading openings, and hard on opening.
I sold it for a safire 2.
Many people jumped that canopy as they all gave me the learn to pack crap and open stable etc. They then also said the canopy was as i claimed.

A year later i decided seeing I was in the gear industry I should probably jump a ton of different canopies so I had some sort of opinion and not just from the canopies I owned.

I jumped five different Sabre 2's 4 or 5 times each and all five opened fine and were on heading. Not super soft like safire but not hard either for a quick opening canopy.

I think my canopy i gave up on was a one off.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Nov 8, 2009, 10:33 PM
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Re: [swoopfly] the Saber2 sucks! [In reply to] Can't Post

An early S2 I jumped turned 90 right on opening pretty much every jump. A later edition S2 107 did not have the problem, so it might have been something that got fixed.


LongWayToFall  (A 52639)

Nov 8, 2009, 11:19 PM
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Re: [ridestrong] the Saber2 sucks! [In reply to] Can't Post

My saber2 190 does have off heading openings, but it is slow enough where the risk of line twists isn't much, and after it is done making it's turn it flies straight. The openings are what I would call medium, I wish it opened a bit faster actually. My old canopy would open in about 300-400ft (PD 9 cell) this saber is about 500ft.
The place where the saber shines, is the flare.


Bip  (D 573)

Nov 9, 2009, 12:04 AM
Post #17 of 126 (4984 views)
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Re: [LongWayToFall] the Saber2 sucks! [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the OP has a point. I found the Sabre2 to have off heading and occasionally diving openings. A great canopy to fly but I did not like opening up in groups. I bought a Pulse instead. Cool


Joellercoaster  (D 105792)

Nov 9, 2009, 12:44 AM
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Re: [hackish] Re the Saber2 sucks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I think it's tough to criticize one of the most popular canopies in the air.

I don't.

I wouldn't say they suck exactly (I'm jumping a demo at the moment and quite like it) but with the exception of "hard opening" I'd say he's bang on.

The only things that seem to open more in almost as random directions (and less completely) than my Vision, no matter who the packer is, are the three or four Sabre2s I've borrowed at different times.

And before you all shout "body position", I'd ask why this doesn't happen to me on Pilots, Spectres or even that ZP.EXE a few weeks ago Tongue

Back to the Sabre2 for a moment: The openings seem to get better as they get smaller, and as other people have commented, it has a lovely graceful recovery arc and the flare is great.

Popular? Sure, and with reason. Hard to criticise? Nope.


(This post was edited by Joellercoaster on Nov 9, 2009, 12:46 AM)


JackC  (B License)

Nov 9, 2009, 2:14 AM
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Re: [Joellercoaster] Re the Saber2 sucks! [In reply to] Can't Post

I recently bought a brand new Sabre2 and I was just about ready to send it back and buy a Pilot because it slammed me all the time and opened off heading. Altering my pack jobs and deploying slightly head high seem to have fixed this.


Arvoitus  (D 3917)

Nov 9, 2009, 2:37 AM
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Re: [Joellercoaster] Re the Saber2 sucks! [In reply to] Can't Post

I have over 200 jumps on my Sabre2. I have had line twists 2 times and in both cases it was due to my body position. In the past 20 or so jumps I've had 1 off headed opening. I've never had hard openings on it. Maybe my canopy is a mislabeled Pilot/Safire/Spectre because I don't understand what all this bitching is about. The only explanation I can think of is confirmation bias since I doubt most people actually keep a record on whether or not they had an off headed opening or not.


Blink  (C 3275)

Nov 9, 2009, 6:36 AM
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Re: [Arvoitus] Re the Saber2 sucks! [In reply to] Can't Post

I've got 250+ jumps on my Sabre2, I've have two line twists scenerios. I've never had closed end cells, but it's supposed to be more prominent at lighter loadings. On heading openings probably 75% of the time. Favorite canopy so far, and plan an getting another later on.


likestojump  (D License)

Nov 9, 2009, 7:38 AM
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Re: [ridestrong] the Saber2 sucks! [In reply to] Can't Post

I am guessing the OP is making a statement about a product line based on having sampled a SINGLE canopy. Could have been a bad canopy. I say give a few others a chance, you may be pleasantly surprised. I have flown about 30 different Sabre2's from 107 to 210, and for the most part I was happy with them. Your mileage may vary.


pilotdave  (D License)

Nov 9, 2009, 7:54 AM
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Re: [ridestrong] the Saber2 sucks! [In reply to] Can't Post

It's all about personal preference. I totally agree with you that people should try a few canopies before buying instead of choosing what they're told is best. But I love the sabre2. I don't get hard openings on mine. I had a few brisk ones a few years ago, but it was out of trim and in need of a reline. New lines put a stop to that. And none of them were really HARD openings like I've heard about on spectres numerous times. Ok ok, some people have had hard openings on sabre2's as well... but the spectre is not immune.

My openings are usually off heading. I have well over 1000 jumps on my Sabre2 and I rarely get an on-heading opening. Unless you count a complete 360 or one of those that swings 90 right then 90 left or whatever. I've tried every tip from keeping my feet together during the snivel to steering with rear risers to keeping my hands off my risers. Nothing has helped. A PD rep packed it for me once (very carefully to demonstrate all his packing tips) and I still got a 270 on opening.

But the openings are pretty much always smoooooth and soft. I am not picky about packers... I get the same openings when I pack it, when a rigger packs it, or when a jumper's 8-year-old granddaughter packs it (ok haven't actually found one that will pack start to finish yet). With cameras on my head, it makes me very comfortable that I can have confidence that my next opening is going to be as soft as my last one no matter how ugly that pack job looked.

Closed end cells are really nothing to complain about. They open on their own within a few seconds... by the time the canopy has finished doing its thing on opening and is flying straight.

But to me, the flare makes the canopy. It's worth the off heading openings for such a nice landing. I really don't like the way spectres flare. I'm sure there are other canopies that flare just as well as the sabre2 and have better openings, but I haven't jumped one myself.

I'll be sending mine to PD for its 3rd lineset over the winter. No plans to get rid of the canopy any time soon.

Some people love em, some people hate em. That's why you've gotta try before you buy.

Dave


MajorDad  (D 579)

Nov 9, 2009, 8:05 AM
Post #24 of 126 (4738 views)
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Re: [ridestrong] the Saber2 sucks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hard openings, closed end cells, and off heading more often than not. Why do so many people by these shitty canopies?

Learn to pack...

Seriously though, I bought a Sabre2 a few years ago as I started to do large way formations where a Spinetto wasn't the best choice of canopies.

The opening characteristics proved to be such that I bought a matching Sabre2 for my backup rig.

Perhaps at 49 jumps you have more to learn......

Blue Ones,


Reginald  (D 28162)

Nov 9, 2009, 8:42 AM
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Re: [JackC] Re the Saber2 sucks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I recently bought a brand new Sabre2 and I was just about ready to send it back and buy a Pilot because it slammed me all the time and opened off heading. Altering my pack jobs and deploying slightly head high seem to have fixed this.

So you're saying that proper packing and body position were the issue? Wink


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