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Great Flyers

 

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Vertifly  (D 27236)

Oct 13, 2009, 11:03 AM
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Great Flyers Can't Post

Being a good flyer isnít enoughÖ

If I was a once proud, even skillful, freeflyer then perhaps it is my humble opinion that it isnít enough.

Itís a tough world. Challenges and challenging people around every corner. So much so, that often times it will seem as though people are simply there to put others down. My endeavors are varied too. Whether they be scholarly, financial, toward serenity and comfort, and ideological every one of them; there is always a challenge or challenger right there. To be a great flyer, the challenge will meet you if you don't get ahead of it before it begins.

To focus on freefly, no other esoteric form of perfection is any different. Art, they say, is not judgeable. The level of skill an artist possesses can be scrutinized, however. Picasso, with a great many others, was recognized long after they were gone. Many of them were out of balance. Some simply didnít reach the right people while they were around.

Balance in all things, maybe. Freeflying is an obsession though. A modicum of obsession is out of balance.

So know my point, as out in space or fluttered and out-of-focus as it may sound. Flying well isnít enough. Those who are great in the Ďsportí of freeflying do more than just fly well. Those who are great are active at flying in front of cameras. Good flyers do things for others but know their place in doing so. Just because you can fly upside-down, doesnít mean you are great at it. Funny what adrenaline will do to inflate the heads of young beginners and amateurs. Control takes time, in all aspects of life. Flying is no different. Flying in control takes a lot of time. A lot. Money, yeah that too, but that isnít what I am talking about. Iím talking about commitment. Good flyers are advertisers. They are slightly ahead of the time and invite people in. They have a theme and an excellent purpose. Good flyers work well with others. They excite others about what they want because it helps everyone understand the art.

Iíve flown with the best and have impressed the best. Iíve been on the great ways and have been kicked off of the great ways too. If you donít have a big ego, then be true to yourself and your ego with never be affected. Iíve quit freeflying many times. Just like some of us have stopped eating too much, or too late in the day before we go to sleep. I canít though. Itís like food for me now. It will be a long time before a flyer becomes famous, rich, or win a gold medal in an Olympic game. Not long ago, it was a dream that closely resembled a reality.

As I started to write this, however, the indirect message to those who are interested in flying (freeflying), is that you will have to be much more than a great flyer to be great in flying. Take the time to plan your ideas, make them interesting, even competitive if you must, and act on them. Consider those who dedicate themselves around you and recognize the talents of others. A great flyer will have a below average ego and do more but talk less.

How do I know this. Well, I've seen great flyers. Names I could rattle off that many may even go 'who?'. 'when?'. They existed. They changed it for the better. And now they are gone. Long gone some in fact. But they were radical. Better than me, in some ways, that is for sure. What was great about them. They flew well, as a standard. But it isn't enough. They were great at promoting themselves. They had egos yes, but didn't care about them, they just kept building and building. Like it was a school project. They advertised, created videos, ran parachutest pages, made it colorful, created excitement, had great ideas, involved nearly everyone, and made it interesting for each of us. They were greater flyers than me. But I was the person who flew greater. There names have taken me years to sit on top of. Now things ar ea bit different, but it could have been better.

I am proud to say that, at times, people say hey Ďthere is that guyíÖíyou know himí. That is awesome. Someone with real skill in my opinion was intimidated to be on a jump with me last year. It was a bit confusing at the time. If only he knew that I felt the same way. True, I always wanted to be a great flyer. But it is my experience that I never reached such a place. Being the best flyer doesnít always mean flying the best. Give until you are exhausted. Then give a little bit more. Rest later. Paying the rent on flying is silly unless you decide to make an assembly-line out of it. Flying should be an art. Keep it an art and a sport.

If being a great flyer is important to you then make plans and write them down. Sounds corny, but it works. Your goals will be met in half the time. Just follow through. Be the best in your plans. Be consistent in the sky. Be safe everywhere. Shun those who do drugs and drink, when they fly especially. They are dangerous and may even die doing the thing that we love. Iíve seen it. On that note, if committed to this thing - people will die. They die all the time. Then they donít, then they do again.

Open your heart to the people that you come in contact with. Spend money to fly with someone who openly appreciates your talent once in a while. Show them the ride of their lives and inspire them. Selling your skill is a sellout. Let people who want to be taught ask you to be taught. Those are the ones who are interested in hearing about it.

If those who you come in contact with have an ego that seems to blanket you, then keep your eye on them and smile. The people who they idolize will humble them. It isnít your job. Take a seat in the nosebleed section and watch the show. Itís quite entertaining indeed. Please trust me on this.

There is a time and a place for competition. That is at a competition. All else is fringe or less and shouldnít warrant a shun. In other words, lower your ego. Skydiving is a fun sport. Yes a sport, not a hobby. Hobbyists donít last very long or are somewhat into self-mutilation and thatís just weird. If you must compete, then challenge yourself to something that you do not already know. Challenge yourself constantly. And treat flying like a sport with the safety requirement of a commercial airline pilot or slightly more daring, a jet-fighter pilot. Just like a jet-fighter pilot, you can't eject (cut away) if you are spinning to fast or facing the wrong direction. Collisions are deadly. Landing downwind can be costly.

On that note, donít land in the wrong direction on the runway. The control tower (the S&TA) tells you which way to land. In priority order, this almost always means the direction that is agreed upon by the people in the plane or the direction of a windsock on a relatively windy day. Donít be stupid and kill someone. This includes you please.

What else? I hope someone can take the sport of freeflying to the next level. I am getting too tired to make a difference now. I always focused on flying great, not being a great flyer. Fly great and be a great flyer too. Someone needs to take the reins on this.

See everyone out there.


IMGR2  (D 21089)

Oct 13, 2009, 4:03 PM
Post #2 of 32 (3556 views)
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Re: [Vertifly] Great Flyers [In reply to] Can't Post

What an awesome story David. Kuddos

And may I add, if you ARE good, always pay it forward.

Brad Slager was one of those guys. God rest is soul.


pilot-one  (D 30000)

Oct 14, 2009, 8:29 AM
Post #3 of 32 (3481 views)
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Re: [IMGR2] Great Flyers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What an awesome story David. Kuddos

And may I add, if you ARE good, always pay it forward.

Brad Slager was one of those guys. God rest is soul.

You guys, Bryan and David, are very similar in your free fly philosophy.
This is almost exactly what you've been saying to me Bryan ever since I started jumping with you.
Very Kewl.


ASTKU  (D License)

Oct 14, 2009, 9:42 PM
Post #4 of 32 (3400 views)
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Re: [Vertifly] Great Flyers [In reply to] Can't Post

Awesome man! It made me very happy reading that!

Thanks, I hope to run into people like you at every DZ.


klingeme  (D 24728)

Nov 10, 2009, 7:39 AM
Post #5 of 32 (2978 views)
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Re: [Vertifly] Great Flyers [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Open your heart to the people that you come in contact with. Spend money to fly with someone who openly appreciates your talent once in a while. Show them the ride of their lives and inspire them. Selling your skill is a sellout. Let people who want to be taught ask you to be taught. Those are the ones who are interested in hearing about it.

I appreciate your post, but in your profile, you include a link to a website you are listed as staff that states the following...
Quote:
Freefly Coaching at Skydive City, Florida
Coach jumps are the fastest way to dial-in flying. Everyone needs advice, even the best.

Each coach jump includes a pre-jump orientation, hands-on instruction and positioning in the door of the aircraft, exiting techniques, the coached dive with video, and comprehensive de-brief to improve a next skydive. In addition, all videos are provided at the end of the day - please bring a mini-dv tape or VHS. EC FREEFLY provides video in, both, PAL and NTSC.

Per jump, two $23.00 slots are required by the student in addition to the coach fees and packages listed below.

1-49 Coach Jumps are $30.00


50-99 Coach Jump package are $27.00


100+ jumps are $25.00


The price of slots can be reduced to by buying a block tickets. A block of 50 or more are non-refundable.


(This post was edited by klingeme on Nov 10, 2009, 7:42 AM)


pilot-one  (D 30000)

Nov 10, 2009, 9:22 AM
Post #6 of 32 (2949 views)
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Re: [klingeme] Great Flyers [In reply to] Can't Post

And your point is?


klingeme  (D 24728)

Nov 10, 2009, 11:20 AM
Post #7 of 32 (2927 views)
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Re: [pilot-one] Great Flyers [In reply to] Can't Post

He says "Selling your skill is a sellout" and then quotes his prices on a website.....


pilot-one  (D 30000)

Nov 10, 2009, 1:39 PM
Post #8 of 32 (2893 views)
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Re: [klingeme] Great Flyers [In reply to] Can't Post

Paying it forward doesn't mean don't ever charge for anything ever again.
Most people that are great skydivers don't do anything else. Skydiving IS their job.
I think you're being a little too literal and harsh.
Coaching for a living and selling your skill are two completely different things in the context that Vertifly is using. Read his post again.


virgin-burner

Nov 11, 2009, 3:25 AM
Post #9 of 32 (2826 views)
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Re: [pilot-one] Great Flyers [In reply to] Can't Post

i think you're ranting on about the wrong guy, seriously..


antonija

Nov 11, 2009, 6:02 AM
Post #10 of 32 (2806 views)
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Re: [pilot-one] Great Flyers [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Spend money to fly with someone who openly appreciates your talent once in a while. Show them the ride of their lives and inspire them. Selling your skill is a sellout.
Seems like author spent a lot of characters to get through the message not to sell your skills, but rather to "be generous" with them. With phrases like "Spend money..." and "Selling skill is sellout" it's pretty much obvious what he was trying to say.
He, on the other hand, seems to be fine with selling his skills. Seems a bit hypocritical, doesn't it?


klingeme  (D 24728)

Nov 11, 2009, 6:25 AM
Post #11 of 32 (2797 views)
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Re: [pilot-one] Great Flyers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Paying it forward doesn't mean don't ever charge for anything ever again.
Most people that are great skydivers don't do anything else. Skydiving IS their job.
I think you're being a little too literal and harsh.
Coaching for a living and selling your skill are two completely different things in the context that Vertifly is using. Read his post again.

I used to "give away" about half of my jumps that I bought doing "Free coaching" with extensive video debrief, until one of the local "freefly coaches" came up to me and accused me of "stealing money from his pocket" because he could have been charging them "Coach Jumps are $30.00 ".

I never paid for a coach jump, and did not want to charge others, but the current state of the sport has a hard time with that. What happened to teaching someone to pack on a "rain day" without asking them for $50 for your time?

I just thought the post and his profile link were hypocritical.


pilot-one  (D 30000)

Nov 11, 2009, 11:04 AM
Post #12 of 32 (2756 views)
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Re: [klingeme] Great Flyers [In reply to] Can't Post

Ditto what Virgin said.


Vertifly  (D 27236)

Nov 12, 2009, 10:06 AM
Post #13 of 32 (2657 views)
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Re: [klingeme] Great Flyers [In reply to] Can't Post

You may call me a hypocrite all day long. Those who know me will understand the post; the subject of which went over your head. It was directed at those who are beginning to fly, those who I believe need to step up the game and start treating flying like a fun sport once again. Too many inflated egos and competition at the DZs - where no podium stands awaiting a victor. However, it's true. I have provided coaching at Zhills for the past two winters. I plan to go back there starting next week. I gave up a New York City income to coach full time in Florida, to begin a teaching career, and to be closer to my family. During the winter, I live in a trailer and make enough money from coaching each month to pay my DZ trailer-slot-rent.

Call it what you will sir, but using the word hypocrite makes me only wonder about you. If you wish to fish for evidence on people, then perhaps you should look at ALL of the perspectives before deciding to publicize your information to trash someones reputation.

I see that the original post went way over your head. It is evident in your response. I have given plenty to this esoteric sport. And I don't really need to explain it to you much further. As far as I am concerned, with an attitude like that, perhaps you should gather your belongings and find a different discipline. This one may not be for you. Perhaps we should open a "Packer" section and let you rant there with all the other grumpy jumpers.

Have a nice day. Smile


klingeme  (D 24728)

Nov 12, 2009, 1:50 PM
Post #14 of 32 (2622 views)
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Re: [Vertifly] Great Flyers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You may call me a hypocrite all day long. Those who know me will understand the post; the subject of which went over your head. It was directed at those who are beginning to fly, those who I believe need to step up the game and start treating flying like a fun sport once again. Too many inflated egos and competition at the DZs - where no podium stands awaiting a victor. However, it's true. I have provided coaching at Zhills for the past two winters. I plan to go back there starting next week. I gave up a New York City income to coach full time in Florida, to begin a teaching career, and to be closer to my family. During the winter, I live in a trailer and make enough money from coaching each month to pay my DZ trailer-slot-rent.

Call it what you will sir, but using the word hypocrite makes me only wonder about you. If you wish to fish for evidence on people, then perhaps you should look at ALL of the perspectives before deciding to publicize your information to trash someones reputation.

I see that the original post went way over your head. It is evident in your response. I have given plenty to this esoteric sport. And I don't really need to explain it to you much further. As far as I am concerned, with an attitude like that, perhaps you should gather your belongings and find a different discipline. This one may not be for you. Perhaps we should open a "Packer" section and let you rant there with all the other grumpy jumpers.

Have a nice day. Smile

I was completely behind everything in your post and I think people should give back what people have given them in the past (as I have) and was ready to post that, until I clicked on the link in your profile....

When you say "selling your skill is a sellout," what did you mean?

Does that mean having people pay you to teach them something.....or does it mean something else? I've never charged (or paid) for coaching, so I completely understood the post and thought it was great. Your profile just threw me for a loop.

Mark Klingelhoefer

edited to add
I've worked on the packing mat before and that is how I paid to jump with people I was coaching for a while.


(This post was edited by klingeme on Nov 12, 2009, 1:51 PM)


hparrish  (D 25090)

Nov 13, 2009, 4:44 AM
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Re: [klingeme] Great Flyers [In reply to] Can't Post

Your one of those guys who can't lose right. One of those guys who just keeps pushing till the point is made. Someone who wont stop until someone agrees with you right.

Why don't you just drop it and move on.


virgin-burner

Nov 14, 2009, 6:04 AM
Post #16 of 32 (2457 views)
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Re: [hparrish] Great Flyers [In reply to] Can't Post

hey now, in defense of mark, which happens to work in the industry, that sold me a sturdy piece of workmanship and took his time off on a sunday to guide me through it, i think you're being a little harsh.. Crazy

there's coaching at my dz, with video-debrief, from a guy that's a good flier, and all he's charging is his slot; way to go!

if you need to earn money in the sport, why dont you sweat your ass off on a packing-mat, do some rigging, or teach AFF or haul meat all day long.. i bet you're the same guy that rants about less people getting into it, teaching them to skydive is one thing, teaching them to fly, well you should do that because you may want to have more people to play with, and because you want to give something back. skydiving is expensive enough as it is,.


hparrish  (D 25090)

Nov 14, 2009, 9:24 AM
Post #17 of 32 (2437 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] Great Flyers [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm one of those guys who doesn't work in Skydiving, who coaches for free, and organizes for free.

Well I used to before I had kids.

And the point is.............that I think David does this too, when he can. He also happens to do coaching for a fee, probably when someone wants his dedicated time for an entire day or weekend.

There's a big difference between spending an entire day / weekend coaching someone vs 1-2 jumps of free coaching.

Also I've invested ALOT of time in teaching folks how to freefly only to watch them walk away from the discipline. That's really frustrating, knowing I spent that much time and expense on my own dime just to have someone flake out and declare FF to be too hard.

Thats why today you'll see me traveling to events just for the sequentials and big ways rather than coaching anymore. It's time to focus on myself rathter than to the non-commital who want me to coach them for free.

Kudos to those like David who still take the time.


BMFin

Nov 14, 2009, 9:27 AM
Post #18 of 32 (2431 views)
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Re: [Vertifly] Great Flyers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Too many inflated egos and competition at the DZs - where no podium stands awaiting a victor.


Dťjŗ vu ?

Laugh


hparrish  (D 25090)

Nov 14, 2009, 9:33 AM
Post #19 of 32 (2425 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Great Flyers [In reply to] Can't Post

Ooohhh Shit.......Are you serious ???

Theres a big difference between Smack Talk and Ego.

I'm gonna stop now so folks don't declare me Vertifly's Bitch.

But come on.......you guys are starting to sound like the media now.


Vertifly  (D 27236)

Nov 14, 2009, 5:55 PM
Post #20 of 32 (2398 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Great Flyers [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Dťjŗ vu ?
Laugh

That was a funny thread. You have to know that Colon and I are on good terms. We had a beer and chuckled about the thread about a month or two after we both were talking the smack in the thread. I got respect.

My philosophy on coaching is to provide it to those who ask me for it. Klueg and the boys (East Coast Freefly) were generous enough to ask me to join them a few years ago. I was honored to join them and enjoy teaching freeflying to those who approach me. I'm a teacher, by nature. And I love to fly. It is my hope to be a fraction of help that the skygod's were to me - the one's that I paid bucu bucks back in the day to teach me to fly. Please also note that we still offer very competitive rates on our web site. The same rates that were offered ten or more years ago. I also provide a full day rate of one-fifty for as many jumps as a person can do. Yes, that is a quotable rate. This is not selling out; this is providing an unsolicited service. Selling out is more like providing freefly video (/ uhhh 'coaching') for someone who isn't sure which discipline they want to be practicing.


(This post was edited by Vertifly on Nov 14, 2009, 5:58 PM)


flyzbar

Nov 16, 2009, 12:25 PM
Post #21 of 32 (2305 views)
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Re: [hparrish] Great Flyers [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes Harry u sound like his bitch.

VertFly, Up to the last post I did not think u were
selling but after last post is kinda sounds pitchy to me.


78RATS  (D 25449)

Nov 16, 2009, 3:17 PM
Post #22 of 32 (2275 views)
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Re: [hparrish] Great Flyers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Also I've invested ALOT of time in teaching folks how to freefly only to watch them walk away from the discipline. That's really frustrating, knowing I spent that much time and expense on my own dime just to have someone flake out and declare FF to be too hard.

Preach it brother.


Premier skymama  (D 26699)
Moderator
Nov 16, 2009, 4:20 PM
Post #23 of 32 (2268 views)
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Re: [Vertifly] Great Flyers [In reply to] Can't Post

Are you an official organizer at your dz where you get your slot paid for?


klingeme  (D 24728)

Nov 17, 2009, 5:47 AM
Post #24 of 32 (2208 views)
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Re: [78RATS] Great Flyers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Also I've invested ALOT of time in teaching folks how to freefly only to watch them walk away from the discipline. That's really frustrating, knowing I spent that much time and expense on my own dime just to have someone flake out and declare FF to be too hard.

Preach it brother.

I've also seen people I helped out go on to be on World Records or win the Freefly Open class at Nationals.


78RATS  (D 25449)

Nov 17, 2009, 6:57 AM
Post #25 of 32 (2188 views)
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Re: [klingeme] Great Flyers [In reply to] Can't Post

So have I. So we are all right. Yeah!


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