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Deployment method...

 


mountainman  (A License)

Aug 24, 2001, 6:39 AM
Post #1 of 13 (1254 views)
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Deployment method... Can't Post

Hey all....some of you may know that Laura and I are going to be ordering some gear within the next week or so, and I am wondering something. What deployment method do you recommend for us??

I have heard good about BOC and pull-out. I like the BOC since it is easy to pack and you can make sure you get your PC into the wind. However, the pull-out is very secure to not get premature deployments. (Am I right??)

Anyway please let me know what you all think we should get based on our low-time jumps and what you find is best. Thanks!

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Premier skybytch  (D License)

Aug 24, 2001, 7:13 AM
Post #2 of 13 (1240 views)
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Re: Deployment method... [In reply to] Can't Post

BOC is the location (bottom of container); the correct term for that deployment system is "throw out". Both throw out and pull out work well. Pull outs have an advantage over throw outs in that the design virtually eliminates the chance of a pilot chute in tow. Downsides to the pull out include needing to either always pack for yourself or always making sure that your packer is familiar with the pull out system - it's pretty easy to pack an impossible pull if you don't know what you are doing, the fact that the pull out requires a more "positive" pull and throw than a throw out does, and the possibility of a "floating handle" which can make deploying the main difficult at best. Some jumpers will think you're weird for using a pull out, which could be considered an advantage or a downside depending on your attitude Wink

Good points about a throw out include easy to pack, pretty much every packer in the world knows how to pack them, a lazy throw will still get the container open and a canopy over your head and t/o p/c's and bridles are cheaper to replace and easier to find than pull outs. Downsides include the chance of a p/c in tow. If you plan to get a throw out, the only freefly safe choice for location is BOC; ROL (rear of legstrap) is fine if you only belly fly but there is too much exposed bridle on an ROL system if you plan to freefly. There is at least one time when having ROL throwout could be an advantage over BOC t/o or pull out - should you have a premature container opening develop into a horseshoe mal, finding the handle on a BOC t/o or pull out so you can get the p/c out and deal with the messy main could be difficult once the bag has left the container. On an ROL system it wouldn't be a problem.

My choice? BOC throw out.


pull and flare,
lisa
---
I chose the road less traveled. Now where the hell am I?


mountainman  (A License)

Aug 24, 2001, 7:26 AM
Post #3 of 13 (1235 views)
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Re: Deployment method... [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the info Lisa! Laura and I have used rip-cord and BOC more recently. I really like the BOC, but have heard some bad about that pullout. Such as, if you dont get your handle in the bottom of the container right or it gets tucked inside, you are going silver very soon.

We'll probably end up getting the BOC since it is more widely used and such. Thanks!!

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riggerrob  (D 14840)

Aug 24, 2001, 7:38 AM
Post #4 of 13 (1233 views)
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Re: Deployment method... [In reply to] Can't Post

BOC represents about 90% of the market and Pull-out represents about 5% of the market for a reason.
We could expound the virtues of BOC at great length, but it is quicker to explain the disadvantages of pull-out. TK Donle of the Relative Workshop explained it beautifully in an earlier thread. The gist of his thread was that any throw-out pilotchute will generate at least 70 pounds of pull at terminal velocity. This is more than double the pin extraction force than the strongest guy in his shop could generate!

Secondly, many skydivers waste so much energy pulling tight pins that they have too little strength remaining to get the pilotchute out to full arm's extension. Lazy pilotchute tosses can be the first step in all sorts of weird and perverted malfunctions.

Thirdly, all that tugging and hard work with the right arm frequently results in an assymetrical body position which is the first step in unrecoverable line twists under a Stiletto!

Finally, I have made plenty of money over the years repacking reserves for guys who lost track of their pull-out handles.
Wait a minute, why am I telling you this? If everyone bought pull-outs, then more of them would suffer floating handles and I would make more money repacking their reserves. Belay my last thought.

I bought my first throw-out (precussor the today's BOC) in 1979. Since then I have made more than 3500 jumps with various throw-outs, but only about a dozen with pull-outs. Sign me an arrogant, opinionated, grumpy old Master Rigger who figured it out more than 20 years ago and does not want to waste any more brain power on this issue.
riggerrob



Geoff

Aug 24, 2001, 7:56 AM
Post #5 of 13 (1230 views)
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Re: Deployment method... [In reply to] Can't Post

Another alternative is the BOC throw-out on the new Mirage, with the tuck-in pud-style handle. Should be much more secure than a normal hackey or plastic-tube type handle.

I haven't tried or seen one though - just seen the pictures.

Geoff



mountainman  (A License)

Aug 24, 2001, 9:20 AM
Post #6 of 13 (1214 views)
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Thank you very much for all the useful info, Riggerman!! I think that we'll be in the market for BOC after reading that. I just didn't know what would be best, but now I think that 90% has to stand for something.

Thanks again!! Smile

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Kris  (D 26033)

Aug 24, 2001, 9:59 AM
Post #7 of 13 (1206 views)
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In reply to:
Another alternative is the BOC throw-out on the new Mirage, with the tuck-in pud-style handle. Should be much more secure than a normal hackey or plastic-tube type handle.
Mike Farmer was at the Freaks Flock Together boogie at SDD and saw when Bill Hallett demo'd that new toy. I do like how they made BOC almost as secure as a PUD handle. Bill picked up the entire rig by the handle. The handle is supposed to come out with just a tiny twist. It's what I ordered on my new Mirage UNISYN but I am having bill send a demo PC to me to try on a staff G3 at my DZ to see what the actual "extraction hassle" is like.

Since I am going to jump an elliptical I don't want something that I am going to have to get freaky with in the air. On the ground is a different matter. Smile I don't think it will be a problem and I'm sure I'll love it but I always like to be sure.

Kris



DZBone  (D 14358)

Aug 24, 2001, 12:12 PM
Post #8 of 13 (1182 views)
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In reply to:
There is at least one time when having ROL throwout could be an advantage over BOC t/o or pull out - should you have a premature container opening develop into a horseshoe mal
Just to be parochial for a minute. This situation applies to the BOC, but not pull-out. Premature container opening would deploy the p/c. Granted, it could hang up on something on its way out, but not as likely as the stowed throw-out.




Aviatrr  (D 27349)

Aug 24, 2001, 11:02 PM
Post #9 of 13 (1131 views)
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Re: Deployment method... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hey all....some of you may know that Laura and I are going to be ordering some gear within the next week or so, and I am wondering something. What deployment method do you recommend for us??
Well, as you can see, there are many different opinions and reasons why people use what they do.. I currently have a BOC throw out - but after having a PC in tow, I started looking into the pull out system.. I jumped a friends rig with a pull out, and liked it.. Yes, it is a little more work - but I feel it's worth it for the added security.. Pull out is not for everybody..

One of the big things that is always pointed out when talking about pull out is a floating handle.. Well, think of it this way.. If your handle floats on a pull out, what could happen if the same occurs(meaning your hackey 'floats') on a BOC throw out? Your pilot chute could get out into the wind.. I sure as hell don't want to have a deployment while I'm doing 200+ head down.. If you secure your pull out handle properly, a floating handle shouldn't occur..

Pull outs are few and far between.. BOC throw outs are very common.. Many people don't "like" the pull out system because they don't understand it.. I guess that makes those of us that like and/or jump pull out smarter than the rest.. Wink

Mike



skreamer

Aug 25, 2001, 3:13 AM
Post #10 of 13 (1119 views)
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Re: Deployment method... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Another alternative is the BOC throw-out on the new Mirage, with the tuck-in pud-style handle. Should be much more secure than a normal hackey or plastic-tube type handle.
Hmmm, sounds a lot like my Wings. Actually Wings have had that mod for a while now, good to see the other manufacturers following suit!

Will



mountainman  (A License)

Aug 25, 2001, 9:02 PM
Post #11 of 13 (1085 views)
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Re: Deployment method... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If you secure your pull out handle properly, a floating handle shouldn't occur.
Wouldn't once cause for this be the bustle in the plane?? I can see that pulling it 1/2 way out and then more so going headdown? This would be easily noticed on BOC, but no really on pud.

Just my opinion...

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DZBone  (D 14358)

Aug 25, 2001, 9:47 PM
Post #12 of 13 (1081 views)
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In reply to:
If you secure your pull out handle properly, a floating handle shouldn't occur..
Plus, it's not all that hard to find the bridle where it routes into the container and pull it from there.




Aviatrr  (D 27349)

Aug 26, 2001, 9:14 PM
Post #13 of 13 (1047 views)
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Re: Deployment method... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Wouldn't once cause for this be the bustle in the plane?? I can see that pulling it 1/2 way out and then more so going headdown? This would be easily noticed on BOC, but no really on pud.
On a pull-out, just reach back and grab the pud prior to exit.. If it moves easily, it's not properly secured..

Mike




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