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Diploma in Commercial Skydiving, NZ, skydivingnz

 

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Bennef  (D 31739)

Oct 8, 2009, 5:13 PM
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Diploma in Commercial Skydiving, NZ, skydivingnz Can't Post

Hi everyone,

Just writing this post as I think I have the most recent experience of this "school":
I started skydiving back in France and applied this course to get more jumps and a foot in the industry (I had 38jumps when started the course). it all look bright and clean but you want to know more about the backside :

I am from April '09 course, I have not finished my training yet, am in work placement and let me tell you a story that happened to the 18 of us :
Basically we applied the course because it was NZPIA certificate and licence. In the middle of the course, without any advise, the managment changed from NZPIA (the federation from which most of the NZ DZ are affiliated to) to a weird ParaNZ one (created on political matters, with only 5 affiliated NZ DZ!!!!!!!!) claiming that was the same.
They took our money of course, never gave us the advertised licence.... How is that: professional skydiving or professional rip-off?
They change course director so often that you don't know what is going on really : Is it safe for students jumping then?

Because of their incompetence I was grounded in my work placement for 4weeks : Is it once again what you expect when you applied for a course that is suppose to put you straight in the air?

My advise is definitely not to applied for this course, you'd rather go to a good and recognized DZ and negociate a tailor made training with good safety level and ground training, few coachings, you will certainly pay less and definitely have no headache!!!

Blue sky


Gutterboy  (D 31717)

Oct 8, 2009, 8:03 PM
Post #2 of 54 (7881 views)
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Re: [Bennef] Diploma in Commercial Skydiving, NZ, skydivingnz [In reply to] Can't Post

I have just finished the same course at NZSS and totally agree with this post. The rip-off with the licences is just one of many problems and is typical of the school. The biggest problem I had was that they promised very high levels of supervision and lots of one-to-one coaching, but we arrived to find a chaotic mess, with hardly any coaching given at all - when we got the occasional coached jump it was only because we begged and fought for it.
The entire school is extremely badly organised, with directors changing every few months and none of the instructors seem to know what level their students are at. There's even been a couple of close-calls because of such low supervision, in fact it's surprising that nobody has been seriously hurt yet.
As for myself I am now at the end of the course and seriously lacking in skills that I should have by now - skills that I was promised and skills that many former students did indeed get taught.
All of this is unfortunate, because the school used to be very good and still has the potential to be very good but at the moment you'd be wasting your money... My final answer would be to get in touch with students currently at the school, to monitor whether or not things are improving, but in the meantime I strongly advise that you spend your money elsewhere.


bigway

Oct 9, 2009, 1:25 AM
Post #3 of 54 (7832 views)
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Re: [Bennef] Diploma in Commercial Skydiving, NZ, skydivingnz [In reply to] Can't Post

You are right. That was a bit long. So I have deleted it.

I dont support the course. I just think they have a good thing. I use to hate it, i then grew up and realised i was the problem.

IM going to walk away from this thread, because it is too personal to me from years ago. I only wish I had kept my head down and my mouth shut and treated it like school and not a play ground as all my friends on that course are doing so well in the industry.


(This post was edited by bigway on Oct 9, 2009, 3:39 AM)


bigway

Oct 9, 2009, 1:36 AM
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Re: [bigway] Diploma in Commercial Skydiving, NZ, skydivingnz [In reply to] Can't Post

Stephan Lipp from Flight club arrives on Monday i hear.

Just found the bios of the other two that are coming to coach the students for the next 8-9 months. I would love to be on a course where these guys are coaching me for free 7 days a week.


born in 1981
first jump in 2000
Tandem, AFF, Freefly instructor, cameraman
Total Jumps 6000+
Cameraman jumps: 2000
Tandem jumps: 1000
RW: 1000
Freefly: 1000
AFF Jumps: 1000
Home DZ: Aerograd Kolomna Russia

Member of Russian National RW team since 2006
Member of Russian National Swoop team since 2006
2007 - 1st place Russian Nationals (4-way)
1st place Malevsky World Cup (4-way)
2009 - 1st place Russian Nationals (4-way)
1st place Russian National Swoop Championship
Multiple times prize-winner in Russian National Freefly Championship
Multiple times participant in Russian National Bigway and Freefly Records



Date of birth: 1 may 1979
Place of Birth: Ramenskoe, Russia
Year of first jump: 1998
Year of second jump: 2002 :)
Total jumps: 4600
Tandem, Aff, RW Instructor
Tandem jumps:800
AFF jumps: 1000
Home DZ: Aerograd Kolomna Russia

With my 10-way speed team Sky Sharks I won:
2004 - 2nd Russian Nationals
2005 - 1st place Russian Nationals and Russian Cup
3d place USPA Nationals (Perris, California)
2006 - 1st place Russian Nationals and Russian Cup
1st place USPA Nationals (Eloy, Arizona)
2007 - 1st place Russian Nationals and Russian Cup
2008 - 2nd place Russian Nationals

Participated in all Russian Nationals Bigway Records since 2003.
Member of World Team, participant of 400-way World Record (2006).


The course students get to do all their jumps with these guys. Would be great experience.


(This post was edited by bigway on Oct 9, 2009, 3:44 AM)


Rover  (D 241)

Oct 9, 2009, 2:51 AM
Post #5 of 54 (7814 views)
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Re: [bigway] Diploma in Commercial Skydiving, NZ, skydivingnz [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for your long winded rant in support the NZSS.
However the main problem as I understand it is that the students entered into the course and paid their fees only to find that half way through the goalposts were moved. The NZPIA is the most widely respected part 149 organisation in New Zealand and this is organisation that the students expected their licences to be issued by - as promised by NZSS when NZSS took the money. Half way through the course the school changes to a lesser recognised organisation, ParaNZ, which is not held in high regard within NZ skydiving circles. Just have a look at their respective websites to judge for yourself which is the most professional.
I feel for the students who have been misled, spending thousands of dollars only to receive a license from a third rate organisation that will possibly not recognised within NZ, let alone overseas. Unsure


bigway

Oct 9, 2009, 6:49 AM
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Re: [Rover] Diploma in Commercial Skydiving, NZ, skydivingnz [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah I deleted it. I dont think I want to be involved in anymore controversial threads. Just call me chickenWink


Bennef  (D 31739)

Oct 9, 2009, 2:04 PM
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Re: [bigway] Diploma in Commercial Skydiving, NZ, skydivingnz [In reply to] Can't Post

There is no controversy, just facts:
They had 5months to give us the NZPIA licence, they did not inform us AT ALL about any change to ParaNZ, I guess they were hoping nobody would notice the difference!?!
I did not complaint for 5month despite a lot of desorganized stuff going on but thanks to great professional instructors the school could run!
I have been grounded in my work placement because of this NZPIA card that I could not provide!
Then of course I started to complain and then they took 4more weeks to come with excuses and weird stuff!
For me it is just not acceptable when you manage a business involving safety and people lives!
A good businessman in a small market should never screw his customers!


imfalling

Oct 28, 2009, 12:00 AM
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Re: [Bennef] Diploma in Commercial Skydiving, NZ, skydivingnz [In reply to] Can't Post

Im personally saddened to hear your opinion of your experiences at the school.

I completed the course about 1.5 years ago and experienced nothing but absolute professionalism from all levels of staff involved.

I then completed my 3 month workplacement at a busy dropzone and am now fulltime camera, doing the job that I dreamed about having after doing my first tandem.

The course really did give me a great skills base to build on and I would recommend it to anyone looking to fast track themselves into a career in the industry. I spose like anything, you get out what you put in.

I also must mention that I had a great time living in Methven and met some great people while I was there. I hope to visit again sometime soon.

I hope this helps tell the other side of what it can be like at the school, the whole experience changed my life and got me into a great well paying job that I love doing.


bigway

Nov 11, 2009, 2:10 AM
Post #9 of 54 (7231 views)
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Re: [Bennef] Diploma in Commercial Skydiving, NZ, skydivingnz [In reply to] Can't Post

So I hear the diploma course just got USPA approved. Meaning all students and graduates get USPA licenses and ratings. Awesome news for all involved on the course.

Well done. Big step for a NZ dropzone that was fighting over NZ politics.


rhys  (D 95)

Nov 11, 2009, 3:13 AM
Post #10 of 54 (7221 views)
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Re: [bigway] Diploma in Commercial Skydiving, NZ, skydivingnz [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So I hear the diploma course just got USPA approved. Meaning all students and graduates get USPA licenses and ratings. Awesome news for all involved on the course.

Wow,

That is quite a good answer to all the shenanigans that is going on with the New Zealand part 149/license issuing.

Although many may think the NZPIA rating is the most accepted, it is the NZPIA that created this absurd situation where there are various part 149 issuers in the country.

This is debarcle has been heading ina dowward spiral ever since the NZPIA was formed.

It is not the fault of the parachute school that the NZPIA has tried to crush sport skydiving in New Zealand, because that is what the case is here.

The NZPIA has purposly been set up to hinder the growth of sport skydiving and give the NZPIA tandem skydiving factories the control of the industry without the burden of those pesky skydivers...

I thinkit is great the school has broken away from the NZPIA. The sad thing is the the NZPF is still 50% shareholder of the NZPIA. and it has been set up to give the NZPF nothing, it is just propped up as a skeleton to keep the NZPIA afloat.

Quite sad really.

Now it is even more difficult for sport skydivers visiting new zealand, multiple licenses may be needed to jump at a couple of DZ's!!!


Rover  (D 241)

Nov 11, 2009, 11:19 AM
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Re: [rhys] Diploma in Commercial Skydiving, NZ, skydivingnz [In reply to] Can't Post

What a complete load of bollocks!!

Quote:
It is not the fault of the parachute school that the NZPIA has tried to crush sport skydiving in New Zealand, because that is what the case is here.

The NZPIA has purposly been set up to hinder the growth of sport skydiving and give the NZPIA tandem skydiving factories the control of the industry without the burden of those pesky skydivers...

The NZPIA was formed in partnership with the NZPF to administer the commercial side of skydiving, while the NZPF looked after the sports side of skydiving. The NZPIA insisted that all skydivers had to be financial members of the NZPf in order to be able to jump at any DZ in NZ-thereby supporting the financial base for sport skydiving.
The shit hit the fan when some disgruntled person took the NZPIA to the Commerce Commission on the basis that they had the right to freedom of association and should not be forced to have to join one organisation or another. Hardly the NZPIAs fault.

The fact that CAA in its wisdom decided to allow mulitple organisations to administer the sport/industry is another story...

So bud, I suggest you get your facts right before spouting off with emotional half truths and claptrap.


(This post was edited by Rover on Nov 11, 2009, 3:41 PM)


Rover  (D 241)

Nov 11, 2009, 9:22 PM
Post #12 of 54 (7141 views)
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Re: [bigway] Diploma in Commercial Skydiving, NZ, skydivingnz [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So I hear the diploma course just got USPA approved. Meaning all students and graduates get USPA licenses and ratings. Awesome news for all involved on the course.

Well done. Big step for a NZ dropzone that was fighting over NZ politics.

Sorry bother, but why the fuck should I as a NZ taxpayer be happy if I subsidize a course to give the recipients a 'foreign' qualification.


bigway

Nov 11, 2009, 10:06 PM
Post #13 of 54 (7134 views)
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Re: [Rover] Diploma in Commercial Skydiving, NZ, skydivingnz [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
So I hear the diploma course just got USPA approved. Meaning all students and graduates get USPA licenses and ratings. Awesome news for all involved on the course.

Well done. Big step for a NZ dropzone that was fighting over NZ politics.

Sorry bother, but why the fuck should I as a NZ taxpayer be happy if I subsidize a course to give the recipients a 'foreign' qualification.


Saw that coming from a mile away.

Yeah yeah we get it. You hate the school. Maybe you could stop hiding behind your computer and tell people who you are.
Until then...........................


Rover  (D 241)

Nov 11, 2009, 11:09 PM
Post #14 of 54 (7128 views)
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Re: [bigway] Diploma in Commercial Skydiving, NZ, skydivingnz [In reply to] Can't Post

I actually support the concepts that the school promotes. NZ needs well trained skydivers to come through and take over from old grumpy buggers like me. I have never met the proprietors of the school and have no personal connection with them - beit postive or negative.

The OP had concerns, which I agreed with. Don't move the goalposts. If I shake someones hand, I will honour my agreement, which in this case seems not to be the case.

If you wish to argue politics, make sure you have the facts to back you up. From the PMs you sent me I believe that you are somewhat naive and spottedly (sounds like a real word to me) informed.

As to who I am, I'd rather keep that to myself. You know how tight and insular NZ politics areTongue


Bennef  (D 31739)

Nov 12, 2009, 3:42 PM
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Re: [bigway] Diploma in Commercial Skydiving, NZ, skydivingnz [In reply to] Can't Post

You guies can't focus can you?
If you want USPA rating, just go to the US then!!!!???!!
What the point to come to NZ if you cant get NZ certifications? can you work in a NZ DZ with USPA? no you can't you need anyway at least a temporary licence issued in the country!
who gives a dam of USPA rating elsewhere than US? fuck that! I can't see any big step in this!

The point is not who hates the school and who loves it, we aint kid anymore!!
The point is that as i said before you sign for something so you want this something. If they can't respect the word given then...

I definitely think the concept of the school is good, it is just what is becoming that is pretty much not cool!
Those guies have bad reputation! I don't say it, I just hear it from fellow skydivers!

Now definitely NZ should put his shit together and have only one parachutist federation, more clarity and more follow up can't be bad!


rhys  (D 95)

Nov 12, 2009, 8:21 PM
Post #16 of 54 (7027 views)
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Re: [Rover] Diploma in Commercial Skydiving, NZ, skydivingnz [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What a complete load of bollocks...

The NZPIA was formed in partnership with the NZPF to administer the commercial side of skydiving, while the NZPF looked after the sports side of skydiving. The NZPIA insisted that all skydivers had to be financial members of the NZPf in order to be able to jump at any DZ in NZ-thereby supporting the financial base for sport skydiving.
The shit hit the fan when some disgruntled person took the NZPIA to the Commerce Commission on the basis that they had the right to freedom of association and should not be forced to have to join one organisation or another. Hardly the NZPIAs fault.

The fact that CAA in its wisdom decided to allow mulitple organisations to administer the sport/industry is another story...

So bud, I suggest you get your facts right before spouting off with emotional half truths and claptrap.

The can of worms is open, so I’ll explain my viewpoint.

When I first started skydiving in 2002, the NZPIA had just been formed to separate the industry from the sport.

The rapidly growing industry and its paperwork was becoming a hindrance to the NZPF so the NZPI was formed.

Initially skydivers would have their licences issued through the NZPIA as they obtained the part 149. So you would pay an initial fee to the NZPIA for your license or rating and then an annual fee to the NZPF...

Then as you mentioned somebody took the system to the commerce commission, and it turns out that it is against the law for a company (NZPIA) to force an individual to become a member of a bonafide non profit society (NZPF)...

This ended up meaning that the NZPF membership was optional and the NZPIA licence was valid indefinitely without expiry or fees?!?!?!

WTF

To make the matters worse, at least one of the directors of the NZPIA, namely Lindsay Williams instructed all the staff of his high profile drop zone 'NOT' to pay their NZPF fees because they do not have to... essentially losing thousands of dollars of income to the NZPF

I'll point out how absurd this is.

A director of the NZPIA tells 20+ skydivers not to pay their annual fee to the NZPF . The NZPF holds a 50% share in the NZPIA?!?!

It is blatant monopolisation, it is illegal and the CAA knows this, this is why the CAA has allowed additional part 149's to be issued.

That coupled with underpaid pilots flying for far too many hours only having breaks for fuel loads at the busy multi million dollar drop zones all allowed because the aircraft is classed as private, owned and operated by the same NZPIA directors that oversee their own actions…

The directors of the governing body of skydiving 'ARE' the owners of the current major drop zones so they dictate who can and can't start new operations, they oversee and audit their own operations, and they charge absolutely nothing to retain a licence or rating???

What is all this madness, why on earth would a company, not charge fees when they can and should...

My wife almost couldn't jump at a Hercules boogie in Uruguay because her NZPIA licence did not have an expiry. It cost her thousands of dollars to get there and pay for it but her NZPIA licence was not recognised...

…fortunately she could get a FAI sporting licence through an aero club, what do the NZPIA care?

They need to be un-assembled and another single part 149 that is independent from any drop zone should be established and the focus should be re establishing a healthy sport skydiving population in New Zealand.

Currently it is a handful of people sharing the profits of tens of millions of dollars.

They are not being nice by not charging an annual fee, they are making sure the NZPF remains a skeleton just to prop up the Part 149 that they have.


Ther is no reason why the NZPIA couldn't charge an annual fee, and have an expiry on the licences. This would make them more acceptable, and they could either keep the money for profit or donate it to the NZPIA ns a tax deductible donation..


The NZPIA directors are too blatant to hide the real motives behind their actions.

They have had it too easy for too long and have made millions of dollars, it is about high time something happened to change the situation!

For similar reasons all NZ drop zones will all have to have a part 135 also, this is only because the NZPIA 'took the piss' for so long.

More red tape for everybody because someone got too greedy....

Unsure


(This post was edited by rhys on Nov 12, 2009, 8:31 PM)


rhys  (D 95)

Nov 14, 2009, 2:19 AM
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Re: [rhys] Diploma in Commercial Skydiving, NZ, skydivingnz [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Ther is no reason why the NZPIA couldn't charge an annual fee, and have an expiry on the licences. This would make them more acceptable, and they could either keep the money for profit or donate it to the NZPIA ns a tax deductible donation..

This portion should say;

There is no reason why the NZPIA couldn't charge an annual fee, and have an expiry on the licences. This would make them more acceptable, and they could either keep the money for profit or donate it to the NZPF ns a tax deductible donation..


cphelan

Nov 16, 2009, 6:55 PM
Post #18 of 54 (6868 views)
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Re: [bigway] Diploma in Commercial Skydiving, NZ, skydivingnz [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So I hear the diploma course just got USPA approved. Meaning all students and graduates get USPA licenses and ratings. Awesome news for all involved on the course.

Well done. Big step for a NZ dropzone that was fighting over NZ politics.

Dont really care about the political aspect of whats going on over in NZ but I think this is a major score for NZ school. Congrats!!!


amidarren

Nov 18, 2009, 2:38 AM
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Re: [cphelan] Diploma in Commercial Skydiving, NZ, skydivingnz [In reply to] Can't Post

hi there, i'm someone considering of going to the skydiving school next year...but after reading this should i be worried??Crazy

is USPA better than NZPIA license? as in would it be recognised in NZ and overseas? as i understand NZPIA is more accepted in NZ only?

really want to do the course but now..might have to look at other options...


rhys  (D 95)

Nov 18, 2009, 3:24 AM
Post #20 of 54 (6754 views)
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Re: [amidarren] Diploma in Commercial Skydiving, NZ, skydivingnz [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
hi there, i'm someone considering of going to the skydiving school next year...but after reading this should i be worried??Crazy

is USPA better than NZPIA license? as in would it be recognised in NZ and overseas? as i understand NZPIA is more accepted in NZ only?

really want to do the course but now..might have to look at other options...

I wouldn't worry too much about the politics stuff.

It is a bonus for the students to have a uspa rating, it is a bummer for the New Zealand taxpayer that a foriegn licence and rating is issued, but that is the mistake of some greedy new zealand dz owners that are probably now regretting being so greedy.

the NZPIA rating is not really worth much anywhere other than a NZPIA dropzone.

If you do the course, working in new zealand would no longer be a fast track to getting your career underway anyway, the course would have saturated the market there for camera guys, you can however do your work placement section of the course in any counrty and still recieve the qualifucation...

..let me advise you though that the qualification would not stand for much, you would probably be making the likelihood of obtaining a good commercial skydiving position alot less if you tried to use the diploma as credentials.

What is good about the course though is the intensive rate at which you make your 170 jumps there (5 months) you then get 30 jumps at your chosen DZ for work placement...

I had never skydived when i started the course, and only 1 year after my fisrt jump, i was working for a living as a skydiver (camera guy) with about 250 jumps.

I had 2000 jumps within 2.5 years and now i am married to another course graduate, we are both instructors and we have a combined income of around australian aus$160,000k. I have 6000 jumps and Leigh has about 7000 and 2 world records.

W e both have applied ourselves and have competed etc. as well, but the beauty of commercial skydiving is that you don't have to be amazing or big or anything special (contrary to what many believe), anyone can do it.

My wife is only 110lbs and she is a tandem master. has done about 700 in the last 6 months too...we are living the life.

Anyone can do very well out of the course, it is the fastest way for many but you have to apply yourself and ignore the ignorant.


(This post was edited by rhys on Nov 18, 2009, 3:30 AM)


cphelan

Nov 18, 2009, 12:27 PM
Post #21 of 54 (6722 views)
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Re: [amidarren] Diploma in Commercial Skydiving, NZ, skydivingnz [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
hi there, i'm someone considering of going to the skydiving school next year...but after reading this should i be worried??Crazy

is USPA better than NZPIA license? as in would it be recognised in NZ and overseas? as i understand NZPIA is more accepted in NZ only?

really want to do the course but now..might have to look at other options...

I would try and contact someone currently at the course. Most people that took the course over a year or plus more are probably gonna have good things to say because the course was great then. The past year they went through a pretty rocky stage and unfortunately I was on one of the courses during this time period. Howevor, I have talked to a few friends that are still jumping at the DZ and see the course every weekend and they say its starting to turn around with the new instructors and direction there taking. Every business has a rocky stage at some point, especially when there trying to get larger. I think most of the criticism about the school has just derived from the past year or so and I strongly believe its because the school is trying to grow larger as it becomes more popular. I think every business is gonna go through this at some point or another, howevor, I do hear that they are starting to pull through. Contact me through PM and I will see if there are some people that are currently involved that can give you the low down on whats CURRENTLY going on.


bigway

Nov 19, 2009, 2:31 AM
Post #22 of 54 (6694 views)
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Re: [cphelan] Diploma in Commercial Skydiving, NZ, skydivingnz [In reply to] Can't Post

I speak to Kirsty (owner of th school) once a week if you would like me to get her to email you or phone you and talk you through everything.


amidarren

Nov 19, 2009, 9:41 PM
Post #23 of 54 (6646 views)
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Re: [bigway] Diploma in Commercial Skydiving, NZ, skydivingnz [In reply to] Can't Post

thanks rhys, cphelan and bigway. thanks for all the input...it makes me feel like doing the course again now...however maybe after they sort things out at their end.

cphelan if u could please keep me updated here or pm that would be absolutely awesome.

bigway my email is tattered9@hotmail.com. she can email me please.

thank u so much for all your help! i'm getting really excited!


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Nov 23, 2009, 11:36 AM
Post #24 of 54 (6573 views)
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Re: [amidarren] Diploma in Commercial Skydiving, NZ, skydivingnz [In reply to] Can't Post

Some of us are quietly following this post... let us know how it goes.


riggster  (A License)

Dec 1, 2009, 10:34 AM
Post #25 of 54 (6500 views)
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Re: [cphelan] Diploma in Commercial Skydiving, NZ, skydivingnz [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi all, i was very close to doing the 'diploma' about a year ago but my circumstances changed so i put it on hold.
Im now in a position to do it again and am seriously considering it, ok its alot of money but only what you would pay for this amount of jumps anywhere else...plus you get the coaching/training etc.
Id just like to be sure that it is run professionally, thats theres no dissapointments,let downs and cock ups with licences etc. I want to get what ive been promised and then the rest is upto me in how much i apply myself and go for it.
If cphelan, amidarren,bigway and rhys etc could help out with any new info or contacts id be very gratefull...cheers guys my email is riggy1@hotmail.com


(This post was edited by riggster on Dec 1, 2009, 10:36 AM)


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