Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Relative Work:
Fall Rate

 

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Rebecca-Berlin  (C 37918)

Sep 29, 2009, 1:58 AM
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Fall Rate Can't Post

My 4-way team is averaging 192 kmh. Is this a good fall rate? Our Center Out seems to think this is too slow, but I'm good with it.


Nick  (D 103197)

Sep 29, 2009, 2:15 AM
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Re: [Rebecca-Berlin] Fall Rate [In reply to] Can't Post

That works out to be 119mph, seams like a totally reasonable speed, however it's more important that you are all falling together at the same speed.

In this you should also consider what you are using to measure that speed and where it is placed, the differences can be great between a Protrack in a helmet, or a Neptune on a wrist etc.


Rebecca-Berlin  (C 37918)

Sep 29, 2009, 2:31 AM
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Re: [Nick] Fall Rate [In reply to] Can't Post

I use a ProTrack in my helmet.
I never thought about asking each team member to show me their ProTrack after the dive, but I assume we would each have the same speed on it.


(This post was edited by Rebecca-Berlin on Sep 29, 2009, 2:32 AM)


Nick  (D 103197)

Sep 29, 2009, 2:56 AM
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Re: [Rebecca-Berlin] Fall Rate [In reply to] Can't Post

I used a protrack in my Z1 and it was pretty consistent on 114mph, a team mate with a protrack in an Oxygen used to get 117mph. Your speed sounds good but having a speed that is comfortable for all of you is best.


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Sep 29, 2009, 6:46 AM
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Re: [Rebecca-Berlin] Fall Rate [In reply to] Can't Post

If any teammate is uncomfortable and needs to go faster to fall with you, then it's too slow.

I'm not a big fan of under 120 either.


Rebecca-Berlin  (C 37918)

Sep 29, 2009, 11:20 AM
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Re: [rehmwa] Fall Rate [In reply to] Can't Post

Does anyone know what fall rate the top teams have?


Chris_K  (C 3228)

Sep 29, 2009, 11:35 AM
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Re: [Rebecca-Berlin] Fall Rate [In reply to] Can't Post

Most will wear weight to fly around the 135 mark. faster wind for the 35 seconds


Rebecca-Berlin  (C 37918)

Sep 29, 2009, 12:47 PM
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Re: [Chris_K] Fall Rate [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow! So we need to be 16 mph faster! In kmh that's 25, bringing our desired speed up to 207 kmh. Woohoo!


(This post was edited by Rebecca-Berlin on Sep 29, 2009, 12:51 PM)


Premier Remster  (C License)

Sep 29, 2009, 1:36 PM
Post #9 of 38 (3295 views)
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Re: [Rebecca-Berlin] Fall Rate [In reply to] Can't Post

In all honesty, I wouldn't look at x mph as your goal.

What your team should be doing is flying at a speed where the fastest faller will be comfortable in a normal jumpsuit (ie, no wings or excess fluff). Whatever that speed is (119, 200, 210 mph) is pretty much irrelevant.


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Sep 29, 2009, 1:52 PM
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Re: [Remster] Fall Rate [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In all honesty, I wouldn't look at x mph as your goal.

What your team should be doing is flying at a speed where the fastest faller will be comfortable in a normal jumpsuit (ie, no wings or excess fluff). Whatever that speed is (119, 200, 210 mph) is pretty much irrelevant.

perfect - your fastest faller should be able to fly right in the center of his range while in a strong and relaxed mantis- in a form fittiing suit that doesn't have any flapping or excess material - don't tie him up by making him dearch and get sloppy - or by having to wear a 'slow' fall suit that flaps or (really worse) has 'gimmicks' to slow him down. Let him fly - the rest can add lead for the same effect

as for the pros - I think over the last few, they've experimented with real fast, real slow, etc - energy and weight is a mobility tradeoff....


Chris_K  (C 3228)

Sep 30, 2009, 6:53 AM
Post #11 of 38 (3210 views)
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Re: [rehmwa] Fall Rate [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In all honesty, I wouldn't look at x mph as your goal.

What your team should be doing is flying at a speed where the fastest faller will be comfortable in a normal jumpsuit (ie, no wings or excess fluff). Whatever that speed is (119, 200, 210 mph) is pretty much irrelevant.

perfect - your fastest faller should be able to fly right in the center of his range while in a strong and relaxed mantis- in a form fittiing suit that doesn't have any flapping or excess material - don't tie him up by making him dearch and get sloppy - or by having to wear a 'slow' fall suit that flaps or (really worse) has 'gimmicks' to slow him down. Let him fly - the rest can add lead for the same effect

as for the pros - I think over the last few, they've experimented with real fast, real slow, etc - energy and weight is a mobility tradeoff....

I agree, the speed should be determined by range. if you all need to wear suction cups to get to that speed, don't do it. That being said, use the faster faller as your mark, not the middle faller as I have seen some teams do.


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Sep 30, 2009, 6:55 AM
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Re: [Chris_K] Fall Rate [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
if you all need to wear suction cups to get to that speed

I don't know what that means, but now I'm intrigued


padu

Sep 30, 2009, 9:49 AM
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Re: [rehmwa] Fall Rate [In reply to] Can't Post

If I understood, he just repeated what you'd just said but in slightly more confusing words
Smile


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Sep 30, 2009, 10:03 AM
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Re: [padu] Fall Rate [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If I understood, he just repeated what you'd just said but in slightly more confusing words
Smile

and I just repeated Remster's words - it's easier for me not to have any original advice - it keeps me out of trouble


Premier Remster  (C License)

Sep 30, 2009, 11:18 AM
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Re: [rehmwa] Fall Rate [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
If I understood, he just repeated what you'd just said but in slightly more confusing words
Smile

and I just repeated Remster's words - it's easier for me not to have any original advice - it keeps me out of trouble

+1






Sly


kallend  (D 23151)

Oct 1, 2009, 6:39 AM
Post #16 of 38 (3116 views)
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Re: [rehmwa] Fall Rate [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
if you all need to wear suction cups to get to that speed

I don't know what that means, but now I'm intrigued

Aren't they for breast "enhancement"? Not sure what it has to do wth 4-way.


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Oct 1, 2009, 6:51 AM
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Re: [kallend] Fall Rate [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
if you all need to wear suction cups to get to that speed

I don't know what that means, but now I'm intrigued

Aren't they for breast "enhancement"? Not sure what it has to do wth 4-way.

you get invited on more jumps by the creepy, chain smoking, middle aged, tandem instructor


(This post was edited by rehmwa on Oct 1, 2009, 6:52 AM)


Chris_K  (C 3228)

Oct 1, 2009, 8:56 AM
Post #18 of 38 (3096 views)
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Re: [rehmwa] Fall Rate [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
if you all need to wear suction cups to get to that speed

I don't know what that means, but now I'm intrigued

:) really, really tight jump suits, ones taht leave nothing to the imagination.

there is an advantage to falling faster as the more air you can deflect, the faster your moves will be. If, however, you need to compromise flexibility or flying position to get that speed then its not worth the trade off.

P>s I like the other type of suction cups mentioned above as well. Smile


kallend  (D 23151)

Oct 1, 2009, 5:31 PM
Post #19 of 38 (3061 views)
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Re: [Chris_K] Fall Rate [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
if you all need to wear suction cups to get to that speed

I don't know what that means, but now I'm intrigued

:) really, really tight jump suits, ones taht leave nothing to the imagination.

there is an advantage to falling faster as the more air you can deflect, the faster your moves will be. If, however, you need to compromise flexibility or flying position to get that speed then its not worth the trade off.

While this may well be true for top teams, I doubt many intermediate or advanced teams are score-limited by how fast their moves are. More likely by how skilled and precise they are.

Slightly changing the topic: on big-ways I think the balance has gone too far towards high fall rate. Fast moves are not relevant, and most of the issues we see are due to people being floaty on account of the sometimes ballistic fall rates. Last year I was on a 90-way where the fall rate was 133mph. A LOT of people were unable to dock on it.

In reply to:

P>s I like the other type of suction cups mentioned above as well. Smile

Always pleased to be of serviceSmile


tetra316  (D 26945)

Oct 1, 2009, 8:07 PM
Post #20 of 38 (3036 views)
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Re: [kallend] Fall Rate [In reply to] Can't Post

Even with the faster fall rates on big ways, you always still have people going low it seems. And it's always easier to go faster by adding weights then it is to go slower. Maybe that's the reason for the faster trend?


katecooper  (D 7333)

Oct 2, 2009, 12:55 AM
Post #21 of 38 (3017 views)
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Re: [tetra316] Fall Rate [In reply to] Can't Post

JFTC Fall rate was 122 mph (top, bottom and average) as measured from the base with a helmet mounted Pro Track. This was our goal fall rate and it resulted in a fast falling but smoothly building formation.


kallend  (D 23151)

Oct 2, 2009, 9:59 AM
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Re: [katecooper] Fall Rate [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
JFTC Fall rate was 122 mph (top, bottom and average) as measured from the base with a helmet mounted Pro Track. This was our goal fall rate and it resulted in a fast falling but smoothly building formation.

Did you have any problems with jumpers going low?

Did you have any problems with jumpers being floaty?


katecooper  (D 7333)

Oct 2, 2009, 10:19 AM
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Re: [kallend] Fall Rate [In reply to] Can't Post

1) people didn't go low, but they sure did manage to put themselves low a few times. Either by overswooping or not getting high enough in the stadium (for floaters from all planes or most from the A-B/H-J planes)

2) floaty people were floaty (Usually a result of fear factor), until they fixed it. Jumpers who paid attention locked in the fall rate early and had little/no problems. ]

There were women wearing sweaters/sleeves and women wearing weight belts. Many women were simply comfortable with their suits and body positions from the base 6 to the outer rows, so I'd say it was a "baby bear" fall rate... just right!

k


tetra316  (D 26945)

Oct 2, 2009, 10:31 AM
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Re: [katecooper] Fall Rate [In reply to] Can't Post

Just out of curiosity, do you know what the base is planning on for Thailand? I've heard up to 135.


Ron

Oct 2, 2009, 10:56 AM
Post #25 of 38 (2962 views)
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Re: [Rebecca-Berlin] Fall Rate [In reply to] Can't Post

A good fall rate is judged more by all of your teams body positions than by some number on a display.

Your biggest person should be in a good position, if that means they need to wear a lose jumpsuit then fine.

Your lightest should be in a good body position, if that means they need lead... Fine.

If everyone is wearing lead.... Well then that's just silly. If everyone is wearing sleeves... Again silly.

It is more about relativity than raw speed.


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