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Keep an Eye Out for this Pilot-Chute-in-Tow Malfunction

 

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KellyF  (D 13826)

Sep 22, 2009, 8:16 AM
Post #26 of 37 (1499 views)
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Re: [NVizABull] Pilot-Chute-in-Tow and other Malfunction Issues [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
According to what I could see of photo 1, it appeared that the closing loop was way too long, as well. For the closing loop to be proper length, the grommets should stack or, at least close to it.
Depends on the rig. The rig in the photos has a closing loop that is 1/4-3/8" too long. The side flaps are designed to just "touch".

Another manufacturer has a theory that this malfunction could be related to the pilot chute not being fully cocked, and the centerline bunching up the outside "tubular" portion of the bridle when the pilot chute inflates. It's certainly a valid theory. The malfunction could be one, or a combination of both factors.


hookitt  (D License)

Sep 22, 2009, 8:47 AM
Post #27 of 37 (1490 views)
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Re: [KellyF] Pilot-Chute-in-Tow and other Malfunction Issues [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh yee mockers of the mighty Pull-Out Wink



I'll attempt to duplicate this at home later. I tried this weekend a couple times on another rig, gave up and jumped instead.


The111  (D 29246)

Sep 22, 2009, 8:54 AM
Post #28 of 37 (1480 views)
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Re: [NVizABull] Pilot-Chute-in-Tow and other Malfunction Issues [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Another issue I see pretty regularly is 2-3 FEET of lines being put in the bottom of the container. NONE of the manufacturers encourage this procedure.

I did my first few hundred jumps in DeLand, and was told by many many locals that Jon LeBlanc (PD) recommended at least 18" (and I believe up to 36"?) unstowed. I never heard him say it personally, but I assumed it was true.

Usually I stow leave about 18" unstowed and just make my last stow super loose with an oversized band.

Edited for typo.


(This post was edited by The111 on Sep 22, 2009, 10:52 AM)


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Sep 22, 2009, 10:24 AM
Post #29 of 37 (1462 views)
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Re: [The111] Pilot-Chute-in-Tow and other Malfunction Issues [In reply to] Can't Post

I've heard him say that, and I don't like doing that. (Although I have seen people pack with just the two locking stows and the rest just coiled in the container.) I now stow almost all the way down to the risers, but make the last few stows super loose. That keeps that extra 18" under control at least until the bag is in the container and the container is closed.


bomb420

Sep 22, 2009, 5:11 PM
Post #30 of 37 (1430 views)
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Re: [jumpwally] Keep an Eye Out for this Pilot-Chute-in-Tow Malfunction [In reply to] Can't Post

JUMPWALLY, Here are the pics from the incident and then the other rig is how the manufacturer figures the incident occurred.

I believe the bridle coming from flap two was pulled out slightly before the pics were taken. The bridle was taunt when I walked back with Lisa after the incident.


(This post was edited by bomb420 on Sep 22, 2009, 5:13 PM)
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KellyF  (D 13826)

Sep 23, 2009, 8:42 AM
Post #31 of 37 (1381 views)
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Re: [bomb420] Keep an Eye Out for this Pilot-Chute-in-Tow Malfunction [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
JUMPWALLY, Here are the pics from the incident and then the other rig is how the manufacturer figures the incident occurred.
Actually, we think that the last picture is a "safe" way to close the container. There needed to be more bridle tucked in above the pin, with the pin flipped over, for us to be able to see potential for the pin to pierce the bridleSmile


padalcek  (D 23938)

Sep 25, 2009, 5:29 PM
Post #32 of 37 (1285 views)
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Re: [KellyF] Keep an Eye Out for this Pilot-Chute-in-Tow Malfunction [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Actually, we think that the last picture is a "safe" way to close the container.

Actually, the "safer" way to close that particular container would be to shorten the closing loop - by a lot.
Without being able to tell what particular container or canopy is portrayed in that photo I can tell you that either:

A) the container is WAY over-stuffed (that is, the main canopy is several sizes too large for the size of the main pack tray) or,

B) the closing loop is WAY too long (granted that some manufacturers say their grommets should be "offset" - in this case the flaps don't even overlap!)

If you pack for yourself - pay attention!
If you have others pack for you - make sure they pay attention; or find someone else.

For what it's worth: the closing pins on the rigs I pack are always turned to where they resemble a smiley. One more reason to keep doing it that way.


jumpwally  (D License)

Sep 26, 2009, 8:08 AM
Post #33 of 37 (1242 views)
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Re: [bomb420] Keep an Eye Out for this Pilot-Chute-in-Tow Malfunction [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks.....


monkycndo  (D License)

Sep 26, 2009, 10:40 AM
Post #34 of 37 (1227 views)
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Re: [padalcek] Keep an Eye Out for this Pilot-Chute-in-Tow Malfunction [In reply to] Can't Post

The rig in the pictures is an Infinity. When KellyF took the time to show me how to "safely" close mine, I figured he might know how to do it correctly.

Got to love getting great customer support straight from the guy owns the company.Smile


padalcek  (D 23938)

Sep 26, 2009, 5:43 PM
Post #35 of 37 (1192 views)
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Re: [monkycndo] Keep an Eye Out for this Pilot-Chute-in-Tow Malfunction [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The rig in the pictures is an Infinity. When KellyF took the time to show me how to "safely" close mine, I figured he might know how to do it correctly.

I also received a PM from third party (not the company owner/operator) telling me that the rig portrayed in that photo is in fact Infinity. After double checking their manual I have to agree that the rig portrayed in the photo I referenced in my previous post is actually packed according to the manual.
I stand corrected.


champu  (D 28302)

Sep 28, 2009, 5:40 PM
Post #36 of 37 (1103 views)
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Re: [KellyF] Keep an Eye Out for this Pilot-Chute-in-Tow Malfunction [In reply to] Can't Post

I may just be having a particularly unimaginative day, but I'm having a hard time visualizing how this is happening.

Can someone (Kelly? Trunk?) take a picture of a closed container packed as it is believed the malfunctioning containers were with the main flap open and the pilot chute and pilot chute side of the main bridle held up above the container (simulating the configuration and direction of forces immediately prior to the pin going through the bridle?)

If I take a butter knife and lay it flat (broad side) against my chest and then move the knife in the direction it is pointing I would not expect to be impaled by it.


Gary73  (D 21341)

Oct 7, 2009, 4:05 PM
Post #37 of 37 (1010 views)
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Re: [champu] Keep an Eye Out for this Pilot-Chute-in-Tow Malfunction [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I may just be having a particularly unimaginative day, but I'm having a hard time visualizing how this is happening.

Can someone (Kelly? Trunk?) take a picture of a closed container packed as it is believed the malfunctioning containers were with the main flap open and the pilot chute and pilot chute side of the main bridle held up above the container (simulating the configuration and direction of forces immediately prior to the pin going through the bridle?)

If I take a butter knife and lay it flat (broad side) against my chest and then move the knife in the direction it is pointing I would not expect to be impaled by it.

Yeah, I'd like to see that too. I suspect that it'll look ugly enough that no experienced jumper would jump it.

Meanwhile, here's a photo from a vaguely similar PCIT that was caused by a weird collapsible PC with the kill-line window on the bag side of the pin. The pin got into the window somehow and just stayed there. Don't know who made the PC; don't think I've seen another like it.

The rig was a Mirage; the photo was taken after the jumper and rig were returned safely to the DZ. The view is from the top right corner of the right flap, looking toward the bottom left corner of the rig.
Attachments: pcit-2.jpg (283 KB)


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