Forums: Skydiving: Tandem Skydiving:
Tandem Cypres save: Video

 

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Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Sep 16, 2009, 8:50 AM
Post #1 of 29 (5500 views)
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Tandem Cypres save: Video Can't Post

Wow:

http://www.youtube.com/...6dE34v4L0&fmt=18


tetra316  (D 26945)

Sep 16, 2009, 9:38 AM
Post #2 of 29 (5423 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Tandem Cypres save: Video [In reply to] Can't Post

WTF?!

I hope he is not allowed to do tandems anymore.


robblack31  (D 26661)

Sep 16, 2009, 9:56 AM
Post #3 of 29 (5404 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Tandem Cypres save: Video [In reply to] Can't Post

Does anybody know the back story on this? It just seems strange. This guy has a clean exit and then just forgets about the drogue??? Then he doesn't notice the fact that his cameraman is head down the whole time and he completely loses altitude awareness??? This just all seems unreasonable for a TI. However, I have only worked with about 12 TI's and they are all very competent.

Maybe this was his terminal check dive or something?


skydived19006  (D 19006)

Sep 16, 2009, 10:05 AM
Post #4 of 29 (5396 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Tandem Cypres save: Video [In reply to] Can't Post

My first thought was that maybe this was an Instructor doing a training jump. The student though seems to be oblivious of the camera, and experienced skydiver on front I would think would be reacting differently.

I can not understand how anyone with more than a couple of tandems could not remember to throw the drogue. Even if the TI did forget, what about the damn extremely high fall rate? He obviously did forget to throw the drogue, he seems to think that at pull time pulling the drogue release rip cord is going to make something happen.

Someone with the power should take a second look at this guy. Looks to me like he was not cut out to deal with being a TI.

Good head down video flyer! You know he's got to be thinking he's chasing a total idiot! But, at a loss to help.


skydived19006  (D 19006)

Sep 16, 2009, 10:15 AM
Post #5 of 29 (5387 views)
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Re: [robblack31] Tandem Cypres save: Video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
,,the whole time and he completely loses altitude awareness???

Maybe this was his terminal check dive or something?

He doesn't lose altitude awareness, he's watching his altimeter, and has an audible, and appears to attempt to deploy the main on time. 15 or so seconds after attempting to deploy the main the Cypress fires, that would be at 4 to 4.5 at a light weight tandem terminal seconds per 1000' at a light weight tandem terminal. That would have put him at somewhere around 5,000 to 5,500' at his rip cord pull.


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Sep 16, 2009, 10:35 AM
Post #6 of 29 (5356 views)
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Re: [skydived19006] Tandem Cypres save: Video [In reply to] Can't Post

What amazed me is he takes the ripcord from his right hang, transfers it to his left and then starts reaching for the cutaway just as the Cypres does its job. If you have a terminal mal keeping handles should be the least of your concerns.

I'll refrain from comment on the drogue less freefall, the lack of handle touches and everything else that is wrong on that skydive.


robblack31  (D 26661)

Sep 16, 2009, 10:40 AM
Post #7 of 29 (5351 views)
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Re: [skydived19006] Tandem Cypres save: Video [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, you are right. I was in a hurry the first time I watched it. He doesn't lose altitude awareness but its hard to tell if he ever checks his alti at any point early in the jump. Had he been checking his alti regularly he might have noticed his extremely high rate of altitude loss (as if the HD video guy was not a big enough clue)


pchapman  (D 1014)

Sep 16, 2009, 10:45 AM
Post #8 of 29 (5341 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Tandem Cypres save: Video [In reply to] Can't Post

While we appreciate the video, the dedication of the camera flyer to stay with them right through Tandem Cypres altitude (1900') is beyond the call of duty...


Sangi

Sep 16, 2009, 10:50 AM
Post #9 of 29 (5333 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Tandem Cypres save: Video [In reply to] Can't Post

cool

Wonder how much the opening hurt..


robblack31  (D 26661)

Sep 16, 2009, 10:51 AM
Post #10 of 29 (5330 views)
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Re: [skydived19006] Tandem Cypres save: Video [In reply to] Can't Post

 " He obviously did forget to throw the drogue, he seems to think that at pull time pulling the drogue release rip cord is going to make something happen."

Once he is stable, he does at least touch the drogue. Maybe it was a phantom throw where he thought he got the drogue out but really just gave it a tug. I myself am paranoid and look to make sure the drogue is there after I throw it.


irishrigger  (D 297)

Sep 16, 2009, 11:48 AM
Post #11 of 29 (5283 views)
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Re: [robblack31] Tandem Cypres save: Video [In reply to] Can't Post

vow,very interesting video indeed.
i never thought it be possible that one would for get to throw the drogue!!! well there goes that thoug out the windowCrazy
but i do agree that normal standern procedure werent followed, a tandem master should always check to make sure that the drogue has inflates correctly,i dont see in the video that he ever looked up and behind.
also his reserve drill also leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion,he should have reacted quicker to the situation and pulled the reserve handle manually a lot sooner.
personally my hard deck is 3000',i would have carried out my emergency procedure at that stage.

good job by the cypres unit and also nice bit of flying by the camera man!!!!!


skydived19006  (D 19006)

Sep 16, 2009, 11:55 AM
Post #12 of 29 (5277 views)
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Re: [robblack31] Tandem Cypres save: Video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
" He obviously did forget to throw the drogue, he seems to think that at pull time pulling the drogue release rip cord is going to make something happen."

Once he is stable, he does at least touch the drogue. Maybe it was a phantom throw where he thought he got the drogue out but really just gave it a tug. I myself am paranoid and look to make sure the drogue is there after I throw it.

I've had two tandems where the drogue ended up malfunctioned with a half hitch in the bridle catching the edge of the drogue. I threw it, and felt it doing a bit of stabilization, but damn sure knew something was wrong because we kept accelerating! In both cases I pulled the release rip cord by 1000 to 1500' off the airplane, and there was enough drag to deploy the main, but barely. One of them I was wearing my hand cam, and you can see the deployment bag almost bump me on the back of the head before it slowly deploys.

Over the course of my 2000 plus tandems I've gone from an a mind set that, everything will work fine, if not I'll deal with it. To one of, shit is going to happen on every jump and being ready to deal with it.

I simply can not understand how a TI would not know that the drogue was not out. Even in training I damn sure knew the difference in speed on the tandem terminal jump. I also know the difference in speed between a 120 lb student and a 220 lb student, let alone tandem terminal. I also know what it feels like to be stabilized by the drogue, and the feel of "hanging from it." I would think that all of this goes without saying, apparently not.

Maritn


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Sep 16, 2009, 3:22 PM
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Re: [skydiverek] Tandem Cypres save: Video [In reply to] Can't Post

Same thing happened quite a few years back with a TI in Texas. She got distracted during her exit count and double-clutched her exit, loosing her vidiot in the process. So she exited, took a delay on the drogue, then just kept on going.

Same deal at the bottom. She went through the handles but too slow to beat the AAD.

She never did have a good explanation. Not sure there is one.


robblack31  (D 26661)

Sep 16, 2009, 3:39 PM
Post #14 of 29 (5113 views)
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Re: [skydived19006] Tandem Cypres save: Video [In reply to] Can't Post

All valid points, and I understand and feel all of those sensations that you describe about speed changes, etc. But I still feel the need to peak over my shoulder once just to be sure Tongue


lewmonst  (D 24575)

Sep 16, 2009, 3:46 PM
Post #15 of 29 (5105 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Tandem Cypres save: Video [In reply to] Can't Post

So this urban legend is validated with video... nice. I'd heard the story, didn't even know it was on video. I know the instructor. I think that was his only jump as a TI. And, I think that was his first probation jump right after the course. And his last jump as a TI...

This is many years old, at least 5+


ozzy13  (D 29344)

Sep 16, 2009, 4:41 PM
Post #16 of 29 (5061 views)
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Re: [lewmonst] Tandem Cypres save: Video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So this urban legend is validated with video... nice. I'd heard the story, didn't even know it was on video. I know the instructor. I think that was his only jump as a TI. And, I think that was his first probation jump right after the course. And his last jump as a TI...

This is many years old, at least 5+

I thought that the first 15 jumps were suppose to be with no video. (No added distraction) I'm not a TI but I thought it was that way.


(This post was edited by ozzy13 on Sep 16, 2009, 4:41 PM)


mpohl

Sep 16, 2009, 5:49 PM
Post #17 of 29 (5003 views)
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Re: [irishrigger] Tandem Cypres save: Video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
vow,very interesting video indeed.
i never thought it be possible that one would for get to throw the drogue!!! well there goes that thoug out the windowCrazy

Reminds me of an episode some 7+ years ago. Loads and lots of tandems throughout the day. Multiple tandems on the load. I land w/ my passenger and next tandem comes down under a reserve. "What happened?", "Pulled and nothing happened, so I went for silver."

I was looking him over: main container closed, drogue still in its pouch. He had forgotten to throw the drogue!

So, it's all been done before!


labrys  (D 29848)

Sep 16, 2009, 7:21 PM
Post #18 of 29 (4959 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Tandem Cypres save: Video [In reply to] Can't Post

Is it really a coincidence that the videographer goes belly to earth about a second before the AAD fires?


davelepka  (D 21448)

Sep 16, 2009, 7:49 PM
Post #19 of 29 (4940 views)
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Re: [labrys] Tandem Cypres save: Video [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Is it really a coincidence that the videographer goes belly to earth about a second before the AAD fires?

Nope. It was probably about 2500ft, and his beeper went off, most likely on the second beep. It looks like he was slowing down when the Cypres fired, and he let them go by before dumping. You can hear his beeper flat line once the slider comes down.

I know a guy who did this, but he set the drouge at pull time and then dumped the main. Later in life he fell off his roof hanging Christmas lights ala Chevy Chase in Cristmas Vacation, and then went on to crash helicopters for a living (or something like that). The good news is that he's not jumping anymore.


skymike55  (D 13106)

Sep 17, 2009, 4:16 AM
Post #20 of 29 (4765 views)
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Re: [labrys] Tandem Cypres save: Video [In reply to] Can't Post

First thought on video... that was pre-arranged jump... too many weird things..


Premier cpoxon  (D 11665)
Moderator
Sep 17, 2009, 8:55 AM
Post #21 of 29 (4659 views)
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Re: [skydived19006] Tandem Cypres save: Video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I can not understand how anyone with more than a couple of tandems could not remember to throw the drogue.

Nor can I. Yet nor do I fail to be amazed by people appearing to do the wrong thing. Quite often we've wondered why someone didn't do something to break a chain that ended in a fatality, as we haven't been able to ask them. Fortunately this one didn't end such a way. I'd be very interested to know why the drogue wasn't deployed. Stress and complacency can make people do weird things.

This is not an unheard of thing though. I can remember three instances in the recent past where tandem instructors in the UK have forgotten to deploy the drogue.

From the minutes of the Safety and Training Committee of the British Parachute Association, held on the 7th of December 2000

Quote:
Page 4, Item 4 – Incident/Injury Reports (v). At the last STC a report was discussed regarding a Tandem incident, where an instructor lost his trainer on exit. He did not deploy his drogue, remained in free fall, pulled his drogue release handle, then deployed his reserve just prior to the CYPRES going off. He was subsequently ‘grounded’ from further Tandem jumps by his CCI, until the last STC meeting. The instructor was unable to attend the last STC because of military commitments. Therefore STC decided that because of the seriousness of the incident the instructor was to remain ‘grounded’ until this meeting. The instructor concerned was present at the meeting and gave details of the incident in question.

He was then asked to leave the meeting, whilst STC considered this matter at some length.

Following a lengthy discussion on this matter and because of the serious nature of the incident, Phil Cavanagh proposed that the Instructor’s Tandem Instructor rating is permanently revoked.

A counter proposal was tabled by Pete Sizer that his Tandem Instructor rating be suspended until he was re-assessed on a full Tandem Instructor Course. This proposal failed to find a seconder.

A vote was then taken on Phil Cavanagh’s proposal, which was seconded by Karen Farr that the Instructor concerned’s Tandem Instructor rating is permanently revoked.

For: 11 Against: 0 Abstentions: 2 (Dave Wood, Pete Sizer)

Carried

And from the 27th of September 2007

Quote:
Finally, a Tandem jump was being carried out from a Skyvan. The tailgate retaining clip had not been correctly closed, resulting in the tailgate descending towards the Tandem videoman. He left immediately without a problem, shouted to the Tandem pair to exit straight away, which they did. However, the Tandem Instructor did not deploy his drogue and remained in freefall until he deployed the reserve. There was no clear explanation for the instructor’s actions. He has since given up his instructor ratings.

And from the 11th of June 2009

Quote:
v) There had been 8 Tandem Injury reports received since the last meeting. 6 male and 2 female. There had also been 22 Tandem Malfunction/Deployment Problems reports received. One involved a Tandem Instructor with more than 1,200 tandem jumps, who forgot to deploy the drogue. He pulled the primary handle at deployment height, without any effect, and then deployed the reserve. The instructor did not know why he did not deploy the drogue. Following the incident the CCI did not let the Instructor carry out any further Tandem jumps until the majority of Examiners on a Tandem Instructor Course had cleared the instructor.

So it is not uncommon, even in a small country such as the UK.


NickDG  (D 8904)

Sep 17, 2009, 9:20 AM
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Re: [cpoxon] Tandem Cypres save: Video [In reply to] Can't Post

Somewhat on the flip side I was sitting next to a guy once in the Otter who was making a fun jump after doing nothing but solid tandems for about a year.

And all the way to altitude he kept muttering to himself, "Don't throw the drogue, don't throw the drogue . . ."

NickD Smile


skydivingchad  (D 28984)

Sep 17, 2009, 11:56 AM
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Re: [NickDG] Tandem Cypres save: Video [In reply to] Can't Post

I always make the same joke to the people on my fun jumps.


diablopilot  (D License)

Sep 18, 2009, 9:53 AM
Post #24 of 29 (4461 views)
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Re: [NickDG] Tandem Cypres save: Video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Somewhat on the flip side I was sitting next to a guy once in the Otter who was making a fun jump after doing nothing but solid tandems for about a year.

And all the way to altitude he kept muttering to himself, "Don't throw the drogue, don't throw the drogue . . ."

NickD Smile

I've *almost* done it.


fencebuster  (D 29918)

Sep 20, 2009, 7:38 PM
Post #25 of 29 (4228 views)
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Re: [tetra316] Tandem Cypres save: Video [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah . . . forgetting to set the drogue is pretty basic. I hope he is not endangering the lives of other tandem students. That is all I have to say about that.


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