Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Photography and Video:
Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900

 

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Premier LouDiamond  (D 25931)
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Aug 31, 2009, 9:46 PM
Post #1 of 76 (4935 views)
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Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 Can't Post

Hot of the press(release), the Canon 7D. Here and Here.

Looks and sounds promising but I'm not trading in my 5D just yet.


PharmerPhil  (D 23899)

Sep 1, 2009, 3:05 AM
Post #2 of 76 (4875 views)
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Re: [LouDiamond] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

It seems odd (to me) that they went down to an APS-C sized sensor on this camera.


mnealtx  (B 30496)

Sep 1, 2009, 5:48 AM
Post #3 of 76 (4826 views)
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Re: [LouDiamond] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

MAN, that thing looks sweet.... the fact that all 19 focus points are cross-type and active at f/5.6 vs. f/2.8 is a HUGE advantage.

Improved metering taking color into account...can you say "no more red channel blowout"?

Leveling indicator...built in flash transmitter (no more hanging an st-e2 off the PC port)... looks like this could be a GREAT "all around" camera.


(This post was edited by mnealtx on Sep 1, 2009, 6:00 AM)


freefalljason  (D 26672)

Sep 1, 2009, 6:08 AM
Post #4 of 76 (4819 views)
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Re: [LouDiamond] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

I wonder how much longer we are going to have to wait till we see an all in one solution for our application. By that I mean, a camera that will shoot HD video and capture high resolution stills (at an acceptable frame rate) at the same time. I hope it's soon!

Blue Skies,
Jason


mnealtx  (B 30496)

Sep 1, 2009, 6:55 AM
Post #5 of 76 (4797 views)
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Re: [freefalljason] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I wonder how much longer we are going to have to wait till we see an all in one solution for our application. By that I mean, a camera that will shoot HD video and capture high resolution stills (at an acceptable frame rate) at the same time. I hope it's soon!

Blue Skies,
Jason

Full HD video and 8fps still photos aren't good enough for you?

[sarc]I'm sure Canon or Nikon will be glad to take your R&D money to build something acceptable.[/sarc] Tongue


FreeflyChile  (A 32605)

Sep 1, 2009, 7:40 AM
Post #6 of 76 (4782 views)
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Re: [LouDiamond] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hot of the press(release), the Canon 7D. Here and Here.

Looks and sounds promising but I'm not trading in my 5D just yet.

So if I am understanding this correctly, is this supposed to be a sort of mid-point between the digital rebel series and the 5D?


pilotdave  (D License)

Sep 1, 2009, 7:49 AM
Post #7 of 76 (4776 views)
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Re: [FreeflyChile] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Hot of the press(release), the Canon 7D. Here and Here.

Looks and sounds promising but I'm not trading in my 5D just yet.

So if I am understanding this correctly, is this supposed to be a sort of mid-point between the digital rebel series and the 5D?

I think it's kind of in a new class (for canon). Not really below a 5D, just different. And it's more in the 50D line than the 5D line anyway. Not full frame, but that's got advantages too. It'll be a better camera for sports than the 5D... better autofocus, higher frame rate, higher pixel density, more lens choices, etc.

Looks good to me!

EDIT: Oh never mind. This will be useless for skydivers. No sports mode on the dial! Tongue Tongue

Dave


(This post was edited by pilotdave on Sep 1, 2009, 7:57 AM)


BlueSBDeath  (D 10160)

Sep 1, 2009, 8:28 AM
Post #8 of 76 (4756 views)
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Re: [LouDiamond] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Uncle Lou,
Would you get me one for Christmas????
PLEASE?????

Tongue


Bill_K  (D 30260)

Sep 1, 2009, 8:36 AM
Post #9 of 76 (4750 views)
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Re: [pilotdave] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

EDIT: Oh never mind. This will be useless for skydivers. No sports mode on the dial! Tongue Tongue

Dave

Wait? Maybe that's what's wrong, I need to be using sports mode... but you guys all told me to go learn to use my camera and that in doing so I would probably want to use different settings...

So confused. Unsure
Tongue


freefalljason  (D 26672)

Sep 1, 2009, 8:51 AM
Post #10 of 76 (4741 views)
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Re: [mnealtx] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps I wasn't clear in my OP.

I am looking for a camera that will take hi res pics at an acceptable frame rate while simultaneously shooting HD vid.

If I read the reveiws correctly, this cam can only do one at a time.Unsure
Quote:
There's a dedicated switch to flip from shooting stills to video that encircles a start/stop button for recording, so it's much easier to get right to shooting video than the 5D.

I think that the CX100 can do both at the same time but the frame rate and res. of the pics are not acceptable for us.

Blue Skies,
Jason


Premier LouDiamond  (D 25931)
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Sep 1, 2009, 10:33 AM
Post #11 of 76 (4693 views)
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Re: [BlueSBDeath] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Uncle Lou,
Would you get me one for Christmas????
PLEASE?????

Tongue


Hey there bro. Of course I'll get you one for Christmas, just wait by the mailbox and it'll show up. I'll even throw in an extra bottle of autofocus.Wink


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
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Sep 1, 2009, 1:15 PM
Post #12 of 76 (4655 views)
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Re: [freefalljason] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Not even RED is able to do what you are asking and they are throwing money at this issue like its water. You might see a low end solution to this in the next 3-5 years but in order to shoot 1080 and still get 12+mp stills shot my guess is its more likely to appear in the 5-10 year window and only be affordable at the later end of that. You've still got huge segments of the consumers that need to buy HDTV's until they do that there is not a real driver to make cameras that shoot HD. They still make DV level cameras...


freefalljason  (D 26672)

Sep 1, 2009, 4:39 PM
Post #13 of 76 (4617 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the reply.

I was hoping it was much closer than that with the cx100 getting close just lacking on the stills side.

Any chances of a cam that could do it in SD anytime soon?

Thanks again and Blue Skies,
Jason

P.S. Sorry for the Hijack.Blush


Laszloimage  (D 22468)

Sep 1, 2009, 5:58 PM
Post #14 of 76 (4585 views)
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Re: [LouDiamond] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you Scott!
It's never perfect...
The 7D shoots 24p and has better controls but it's not a full frame.
The 5D mkII is full frame but shoots 30p only...
I can't wait to see in the camera in the future with full frame sensor and 1080 24p capability.
-Laszlo-


BMFin

Sep 2, 2009, 2:15 PM
Post #15 of 76 (4468 views)
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Re: [Laszloimage] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Also 60fps 720p sounds real nice.. Cool

Oh, and check out this video Laugh


(This post was edited by BMFin on Sep 2, 2009, 3:34 PM)


BMFin

Sep 2, 2009, 2:58 PM
Post #16 of 76 (4463 views)
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Re: [Laszloimage] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
and has better controls but it's not a full frame.
The 5D mkII is full frame but shoots 30p only...
I can't wait to see in the camera in the future with full frame sensor and 1080 24p capability.


BTW. What exactly would make FF better ?

From what I understand the 7D sensor is very close to a 35mm film camera size anyway. The FF stillcamera sensor size is larger. I understand the featured film 35mm film frame is 24.89 x 18.67 which is actually closer to the 7D sensor size than 5D.

IMO a cropped sensor can produce more than enough DOF for video when shooting with a large aperture.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Sep 2, 2009, 6:58 PM
Post #17 of 76 (4420 views)
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Re: [Laszloimage] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I can't wait to see in the camera in the future with full frame sensor and 1080 24p capability.
-Laszlo-

You wont' have to wait long. Tongue


the_sarge  (E 298)

Sep 5, 2009, 12:55 AM
Post #18 of 76 (4283 views)
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Re: [LouDiamond] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

But 18 MP?? On an APS-C sized sensor??

That's almost ridiculous. Not even the sharpest L-series lens will deliver that kind of resolution.


And... By the way:

Quote:
BTW. What exactly would make FF better ?

Well... Full frame sensor = less pixel density = far better effective resolution


(This post was edited by the_sarge on Sep 5, 2009, 1:00 AM)


pilotdave  (D License)

Sep 5, 2009, 6:05 AM
Post #19 of 76 (4249 views)
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Re: [the_sarge] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Full frame sensor = less pixel density = far better effective resolution

How is that? The advantage of less pixel density is less noise. More pixel density gives higher resolution. This is the big advantage of a cropped sensor over a full frame sensor. Given the same lens and the same number of pixels, the cropped sensor will have more pixels per square inch of the picture, giving it a higher apparent resolution. This is what gives a cropped sensor more "reach," since the picture can be cropped farther while keeping more pixels on the subject. An 18 mp image from a cropped camera is not the same as a 1.6 crop from an 18 mp full frame camera. The cropped camera picture will have higher resolution.

If they found a way to deal with the noise effectively while maintaining sharpness, the cropped sensor has its advantage over full frame. That doesn't mean it's for everyone though.

But I do agree 18 mp is reaching overkill. Waiting for the reviews of this one to see if the resolution is really higher than the 50D with 15 mp.

Dave


(This post was edited by pilotdave on Sep 5, 2009, 6:07 AM)


BMFin

Sep 5, 2009, 6:10 AM
Post #20 of 76 (4246 views)
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Re: [the_sarge] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
But 18 MP?? On an APS-C sized sensor??

That's almost ridiculous. Not even the sharpest L-series lens will deliver that kind of resolution.

Correct me if Im wrong:

the resolution is of the 7Dis 5184 x 3456

5184px would require roughly >2600 LPPM lens.

Acoording to this even the non-L zoom lens 17-55 2.8 will deliver 2536 LPPM, which means it could utilize the 5184px of the 7D

Now if you would take some prime L-series lenses im sure they preform even sharper. If you want SHARP then you can always use Zeiss optics and they are even better.

Even if the LLPM of the cheaper glass X isnt enough, it doesnt necessarily mean that the absolute quality wouldnt be a little bit better when the sensor has better ability to separate each "line". (regardless of the lens not being able to) This IMO could mean better use of sharpening.

I agree that this amount of pixels with APS-C size is perhaps near the limit what is reasonable with the optics availeable.

This rough calculation of mine doesnt actually take into acount Bayer filtering and other factors, but it should be "somewhere around there"

Also you can always shoot sRAW if you dont want to shoot 18 Mpix Smile


Quote:
BTW. What exactly would make FF better ?

Well... Full frame sensor = less pixel density = far better effective resolution
This is true, but it doesnt help when shooting video at 1920x1080

It only helps when shooting full resolution.

And when talking about sensor size in general, effective sharpness is only one factor in the game. There are other factors also and it is up to the user which of those factors might be of most importance for his use.

For example sports + bird photographers value very much the 1.6x crop effect together with their 500mm lens. For them the effective LLPM is secondary.


(This post was edited by BMFin on Sep 5, 2009, 6:15 AM)


BMFin

Sep 5, 2009, 6:21 AM
Post #21 of 76 (4242 views)
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Re: [pilotdave] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Full frame sensor = less pixel density = far better effective resolution

How is that? The advantage of less pixel density is less noise. More pixel density gives higher resolution. This is the big advantage of a cropped sensor over a full frame sensor. Given the same lens and the same number of pixels, the cropped sensor will have more pixels per square inch of the picture, giving it a higher apparent resolution.

You forget that the LLPM (line pairs per millimetre) of the optics will play part in here and therefore FF has more effective LPPM.

If the optics were "infinitly sharp" then you would be right.


BMFin

Sep 5, 2009, 7:10 AM
Post #22 of 76 (4233 views)
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Re: [pilotdave] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

My previous answer was a bit quick.. so I add some more.

In reply to:
More pixel density gives higher resolution.

No. 8 megapixels is 8megapixels on both FF and APC-C regardless of the pixel density.

Density doesnt give more resolution.

In reply to:
Given the same lens and the same number of pixels, the cropped sensor will have more pixels per square inch of the picture, giving it a higher apparent resolution.

The smaller sensor will utilize only smaller area of the lens, but still take the same amount of pixels. Therefore the lens should have better sharpness to produce the same IQ. However this isnt as simple as this since lenses are always sharper on the centre which is good for the APS-C.


In reply to:
An 18 mp image from a cropped camera is not the same as a 1.6 crop from an 18 mp full frame camera. The cropped camera picture will have higher resolution.

Resolution is resolution. 18 megapixels is 18 megapixels regardless of the sensor size. Sharpness may be different but resolution just means the amount of pixels, nothing else.


the_sarge  (E 298)

Sep 5, 2009, 7:58 AM
Post #23 of 76 (4223 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Well... Full frame sensor = less pixel density = far better effective resolution

You're right... I was a bit unprecise with that statement.

What i really meant was:

An 18 MP full-frame sensor will give you a sharper image than an 18 MP APS-C sensor.

This is only due to the fact that on the APS-C sensor, some of the 18 MP will be lost due to a lack of optical resolution (sharpness).

That would not be the case with a full-frame sensor and good optics.

Quote:
18 megapixels is 18 megapixels regardless of the sensor size

Yes... In terms of sensor resolution .... But the word "resolution" may also relate to optical sharpness.


(This post was edited by the_sarge on Sep 5, 2009, 8:11 AM)


BMFin

Sep 5, 2009, 8:37 AM
Post #24 of 76 (4214 views)
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Re: [the_sarge] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
An 18 MP full-frame sensor will give you a sharper image than an 18 MP APS-C sensor.

This is only due to the fact that on the APS-C sensor, some of the 18 MP will be lost due to a lack of optical resolution (sharpness).

yes. Agreed.

But when we talk about HD-video resolution (1920x1080) this has no effect at all.

In reply to:
Yes... In terms of sensor resolution .... But the word "resolution" may also relate to optical sharpness.

You are right.. I was a bit off there..


the_sarge  (E 298)

Sep 5, 2009, 9:35 AM
Post #25 of 76 (4205 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes... When shooting HD video, the sensor format shouldn't make much difference.

Quote:
Acoording to this even the non-L zoom lens 17-55 2.8 will deliver 2536 LPPM

The test you are referreing to is using the unit of LW/PH (Line widths per picture height)

In order to utilize the 18 MP of the EOS 7D, the optics would need a resolution of 3456 LW/PH, equal to the vertical number of pixels on the sensor.

(And the 17-55 f/2.8 USM is one of the sharpest canon lenses)


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