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Otter AFF exit

 

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Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

Jun 28, 2009, 6:53 PM
Post #1 of 26 (2748 views)
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Otter AFF exit Can't Post

I have never done an AFF exit from an otter, nor has anyone else here. We will be doing them for five or six days starting Wednesday. I am wondering about instructors preferred exits.


Premier faulknerwn  (D 17441)
Moderator
Jun 28, 2009, 7:18 PM
Post #2 of 26 (2718 views)
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] Otter AFF exit [In reply to] Can't Post

I prefer the student squatting in the door - right foot forward, left foot back, head outside facing the prop. One JM out, one in.

One of our older instructors prefers the reserve side JM out front-float, student middle-float, and main-side in the door.

Both work. I think the first is easier unless the student is really large...


stratostar  (Student)

Jun 28, 2009, 7:47 PM
Post #3 of 26 (2707 views)
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Re: [faulknerwn] Otter AFF exit [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I prefer the student squatting in the door - right foot forward, left foot back, head outside facing the prop. One JM out, one in.

The most common method used these days.


labrys  (D 29848)

Jun 28, 2009, 7:55 PM
Post #4 of 26 (2703 views)
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Re: [stratostar] Otter AFF exit [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I prefer the student squatting in the door

An Otter door is really big. Focusing them on being in a "lunge" position might work better than being in a "squat"


Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

Jun 28, 2009, 7:58 PM
Post #5 of 26 (2695 views)
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Re: [faulknerwn] Otter AFF exit [In reply to] Can't Post

On the dynamic exit is the reserve side front float or aft of the student with their leg grip hand crossing their body?


labrys  (D 29848)

Jun 28, 2009, 8:08 PM
Post #6 of 26 (2690 views)
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] Otter AFF exit [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
On the dynamic exit is the reserve side front float or aft of the student with their leg grip hand crossing their body?

Very close aft. Right hand holding the student's leg strap and left hand on the bar. Chin on the student's left shoulder.....


diablopilot  (D License)

Jun 28, 2009, 10:49 PM
Post #7 of 26 (2643 views)
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] Otter AFF exit [In reply to] Can't Post

What aircraft do you normally have?


Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

Jun 28, 2009, 11:43 PM
Post #8 of 26 (2634 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] Otter AFF exit [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What aircraft do you normally have?
Cessnas. I have done AFF out of a King Air and one or two from a Beech-18. We used the 3 floater exit on both of those.
Actually I just got a pm from a friend who has a lot of Otter AFF experience who will be here on Wednesday. He will be helpful. Thanks Derek.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jun 29, 2009, 7:10 AM
Post #9 of 26 (2585 views)
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Re: [labrys] Otter AFF exit [In reply to] Can't Post

When doing dynamic exits, keep student's hands off of door frames, floater bars, etc.

That policy changed in Perris when a petite, dainty, female student hesitated, but the inside instructor continued pushing ... and broke her wrist.
To eliminate that threat, Perris changed to having students rest their hands on their knees ... while looking at propeller, etc.


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Jun 29, 2009, 8:51 AM
Post #10 of 26 (2562 views)
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Re: [stratostar] Otter AFF exit [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
I prefer the student squatting in the door - right foot forward, left foot back, head outside facing the prop. One JM out, one in.

The most common method used these days.

Very true, but I have actually grown pretty fond of the "crouching monkey, hidden tiger" method that they use here at the Z-hills school on all but the tallest students. If that sounded odd, I will explain the technique:

-outside instructor has left foot forward, right foot back and is hanging on with his/her left hand to the bar. That instructor is at least midway forward in the door so as not to hose the inside instructor

-student has left foot between the feet of the outside instructor, right up against the bottom edge of the door opening. Right foot in about shoulder width apart and the student is crouching down and facing forward, head up, back as straight as possible. Student checks in; checks out, rocks left (towards door), rocks right, and rocks left and exits.

-inside instructor generally has his/her left foot behind the left foot of the student, right foot as close to the door as possible, is crouched down with his head "dug in" and should anticipate the group getting pretty steep out the door.

This method makes it super-easy for the outside instructor to launch cleanly, but it (in my experience) makes for some steep exits for the inside guy if you permit the student to stand towards the back of the door. I have yet to blow an exit from either position with this technique, but it does put taller students in a really bent-over exit position.

Chuck


Kimsdu  (D 24694)

Jun 29, 2009, 1:21 PM
Post #11 of 26 (2494 views)
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Re: [SkymonkeyONE] Otter AFF exit [In reply to] Can't Post

This is how we do it in DeLand... The video is a Pac exit but its the same for an otter just the otter has a slightly bigger door. Always try and have the student get their shoulder out of the door with hips forward.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy7caLCWiT4

I dont know how to do the clicky thing!!!
Hope this helps


skylord  (A 47693)

Jun 29, 2009, 1:31 PM
Post #12 of 26 (2480 views)
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Re: [Kimsdu] Otter AFF exit [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy7caLCWiT4

There you go!


tdog  (D 28800)

Jun 29, 2009, 4:14 PM
Post #13 of 26 (2434 views)
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Re: [faulknerwn] Otter AFF exit [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I prefer the student squatting in the door - right foot forward, left foot back, head outside facing the prop. One JM out, one in. [\reply]


Yep.... And have their hands "pray to jesus" together moving "up" and "down" as part of "prop, up, down, arch"


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jun 29, 2009, 7:23 PM
Post #14 of 26 (2390 views)
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] Otter AFF exit [In reply to] Can't Post

I like this:

Student right foot forward on edge of the step,
left foot close behind also on edge of the step,
standing up outside,
facing forward,
flat-hand grips on the door frame,
shoulder all the way out,
leaning back into a good arch.

Count after hotel check is
Prop (looking forward getting shoulders square to the wind),
Up (up on toes only),
Down (down to flat foot),
Arch (student left foot stepping out into the relative wind while maintaining the arch).

Reserve side JM out with
right-hand grip on student legstrap,
both feet behind the student's feet clear of student left foot movement,
left hand on the bar.

Main side JM inside with both hands gripping student.

If it Main side JM starts getting steep, reserve side JM simply turns it counter-clockwise 90 degrees on the hill.

I've done it both ways and simply prefer this one.


voilsb  (D 30581)

Jun 29, 2009, 7:53 PM
Post #15 of 26 (2385 views)
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Re: [SkymonkeyONE] Otter AFF exit [In reply to] Can't Post

Here's a video showing both an inside and outside view of the method Chuck described:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOXjateu_4s

Forgive my cheesiness and inexperience; it was my first skydive.


heavydude  (A 53326)

Jul 4, 2009, 8:44 AM
Post #16 of 26 (2219 views)
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] Otter AFF exit [In reply to] Can't Post

I would rate it easiest plane to exit, even if your 6 ft +, Skyvan is also great, 1 Step backwards and your out.


Kimsdu  (D 24694)

Jul 5, 2009, 8:02 AM
Post #17 of 26 (2157 views)
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Re: [voilsb] Otter AFF exit [In reply to] Can't Post

Here's a video showing both an inside and outside view of the method Chuck described:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOXjateu_4s
In reply to:

My problem with that exit is they are already dearched leaving the plane... If you have them stand up with the shoulder out and hips forward they leave most of the time in that body position.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jul 5, 2009, 3:23 PM
Post #18 of 26 (2136 views)
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Re: [Kimsdu] Otter AFF exit [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Here's a video showing both an inside and outside view of the method Chuck described:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOXjateu_4s
In reply to:

My problem with that exit is they are already dearched leaving the plane... If you have them stand up with the shoulder out and hips forward they leave most of the time in that body position.

Which is why I like that door position best.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Jul 20, 2009, 4:08 PM
Post #19 of 26 (1943 views)
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] Otter AFF exit [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I have never done an AFF exit from an otter, nor has anyone else here. We will be doing them for five or six days starting Wednesday. I am wondering about instructors preferred exits.

Hardly anyplace I know uses it anymore, but the most bulletproof exit in AFF is the (old) "Spaceland Exit".

Reserve side door jams with his head while his butt is out of the plane (like floating, but holding yourself in the plane with the back of your neck/head).

Student squats in the door, head up, facing the wingtip with their left foot forward, right foot back (to promote a belly into the wind exit).

Main side is side-by-side with the student in the front third of the door.

Student uses a rocking "out in arch" and exits toward the wingtip while trying to watch it (keeps the head up to promote an arch).

This exit allows both instructors have both hands on the student at all times during the exit. It is also extremely easy to launch and nearly impossible for the student to funnel.

It also gets rid of the cross-arm grip required for the floating reserve instructor exit.


NealFitz  (C 106601)

Jul 20, 2009, 5:22 PM
Post #20 of 26 (1923 views)
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] Otter AFF exit [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JURzdeLiqdY her eis my 1st AFF exit from an otter (15th jump after RAPS). i loved its big door compared to our c206


JohnDeere  (D License)

Jul 20, 2009, 5:55 PM
Post #21 of 26 (1913 views)
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Re: [NealFitz] Otter AFF exit [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JURzdeLiqdY her eis my 1st AFF exit from an otter (15th jump after RAPS). i loved its big door compared to our c206


KathleenL  (C 37482)

Jul 22, 2009, 4:43 PM
Post #22 of 26 (1799 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] Otter AFF exit [In reply to] Can't Post

That one really sounds good.


ozzy13  (D 29344)

Jul 22, 2009, 7:26 PM
Post #23 of 26 (1775 views)
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Re: [NealFitz] Otter AFF exit [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JURzdeLiqdY her eis my 1st AFF exit from an otter (15th jump after RAPS). i loved its big door compared to our c206


Man t throw that PC. You held on to it every time!!!


(This post was edited by ozzy13 on Jul 22, 2009, 7:27 PM)


NealFitz  (C 106601)

Jul 23, 2009, 11:39 AM
Post #24 of 26 (1747 views)
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Re: [ozzy13] Otter AFF exit [In reply to] Can't Post

when i was doing training he told me to hold it for a second and then let go- this was 3 years ago however and I definately dont do that now hahaha- still when i watch the instructors videos every time he pitches he looks over his shoulders holds onto pc and deploys, and all his canopies are either 120s or sub 100Unimpressed


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jul 26, 2009, 7:10 AM
Post #25 of 26 (1691 views)
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Re: [NealFitz] Otter AFF exit [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
when i was doing training he told me to hold it for a second and then let go ..."

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

That is a bad habit.


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