Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Reserve Size Question (Help!)

 


Kris  (D 26033)

Aug 21, 2001, 9:59 PM
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Reserve Size Question (Help!) Can't Post

I just ordered my new Mirage G3 in the M4 size. It will hold a PD-160 or a Raven Dash-M 181 for the reserve. Since I am about 245# out the door I was leaning towards the Dash-M 181 but I also heard that I can fit a Tempo 210 into the same area.

Anyone know if that's accurate? I thought I'd try here before bugging Bill at Mirage again. I'd like to have as much square footage over my head as possible. Smile

Thanks,

Kris



spectre230
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Aug 21, 2001, 10:18 PM
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jumpervali  (D 19338)

Aug 22, 2001, 7:21 AM
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You can take all the guess work out of it by checking the pack volume of your container. It will have the Max volume of the reserve and main. Usually listed in cc's. The reserve companies will also have volume info. for their canopies. It's easy. Don't be afraid to ask them for it they will know your an informed customer.

jumpervali



Premier skybytch  (D License)

Aug 22, 2001, 7:35 AM
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Hmmm... a 1.35 wingloading on a 181-M or a 1.5 wingloading on a PD160R... Ever flown a seven cell all F111 canopy at those wingloadings?

pull and flare,
lisa
---
I chose the road less traveled. Now where the hell am I?


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
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Aug 22, 2001, 7:57 AM
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If it was up to me I'd do the DashM. Tempos are fine canopies but just dont over load them. From what I've heard from someone who has over 70 reserve rides and test jumped the Raven and Tempo series, the Raven has better controlibility then the Tempo and it lands easier. That being said I have a PD160R in mine Smile. You can get a Raven shipped to you Rigged as a main if you want to try using it before "its your last parachute".

Do I HAVE to do another raft dive??? Smile


Aviatrr  (D 27349)

Aug 22, 2001, 8:52 AM
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In reply to:
I just ordered my new Mirage G3 in the M4 size. It will hold a PD-160 or a Raven Dash-M 181 for the reserve. Since I am about 245# out the door I was leaning towards the Dash-M 181 but I also heard that I can fit a Tempo 210 into the same area.
I have a Talon 2 that is sized for a 150 main and 143/150 reserve.. There is currently a Tempo 210 in it.. It's a tight fit, but my rigger does not have any problem getting it in.. The PD160 has a pack volume of 364 Cu.In., and the Tempo 210 has a pack volume of 366 Cu.In.. Both of those are PIA pack volumes.. The Tempo 210 won't be a problem in an M4..

I'd say don't even think about the 160.. The 181 would probably not be a good choice, either.. You outweigh me by 30-35lbs out the door, and I'm not comfortable going any smaller than a 160.. I've landed a PD143R at 210 out the door - not fun.. I was damn lucky I had a big landing area.. If I had been low, with a bad spot, and forced to land in a back yard or something, I may not be here today..

If you have questions on PIA pack volumes, call Sandy Reid at Rigging Innovations.. Get his number off their website - www.rigginginnovations.com.. Sandy has been doing the PIA measurements for years..

Mike



Kris  (D 26033)

Aug 22, 2001, 8:55 AM
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Thanks for the replies everyone.

Spectre: Thanks for the info. The canopy I custom ordered is a Heatwave 190 and packs plenty small to begin with. The M5-sized container would not allow me to down-size down the road and I plan on keeping this container a long, long time.
As for my jumps, I do a lot of JM'ing (hop n' pop's), skill jumps with newbies (RW) and the other half is freefly.

Lisa: Actually, I used to be almost 275# out the door and put a couple of jumps on someone's Fury 200 a couple of years ago. It was a little scary but both jumps were standups, one was in no-wind. I think the main scariness came from the low jump numbers I had at the time, and being used to a Sabre 210.
As it is, I have lost a good deal of weight over the last six months and it is still falling off weekly so the wing-loading is coming down.

PhreeZone: I have seen three Raven's stall on landing now. One was a Micro-Raven 150 loaded at 1:1 and it messed up a friend of mine for a couple of days. As for the actual landing, as soon as the toggles got below his shoulders the canopy dived backwards and dropped him square onto his back.
The second was my own Raven Dash-M 249 and it pounded my ass into the ground on an into-the-wind landing and there was a 5-7mph wind that day. The canopy folded just before my feet touched the ground.
The last one was two weeks ago, it was an instructor with 2000 jumps on another Micro-Raven 150 at 1.3:1, it didn't flare much at all and bruised the hell out of his heel.
I have seen a Tempo loaded at 1.45:1 come in and swoop just like a ZP canopy for a nice standup. I don't think loading a Tempo 210 at 1.16:1 is going to be a great hassle.
I would love to have the PD Reserve in my rig but reinforced or not, I'm just not comfortable with that wing-loading. For my main, no problem in about 500-600 more jumps or so, for my reserve, never.

Aviatrr: Thanks for the info, Sandy Reid is a great guy and really helped me out when I got my Talon as my first rig. I am going to go with the Tempo-210.

BTW, PhreeZone, your C-license is one digit above mine. Small world...

Thanks again for all of your feedback!

Kris



mountainman  (A License)

Aug 22, 2001, 10:15 AM
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In reply to:
The last one was two weeks ago, it was an instructor with 2000 jumps on another Micro-Raven 150 at 1.3:1, it didn't flare much at all and bruised the hell out of his heel.
Seems to me that if you are under your "last parachute", a bruised heel wouldn't be that bad of a consequence for saving your life. Just something to think about. However, I too, would rather have a nice, soft stand-up.Smile

--------------
Drop on in...leave a message


Premier phreezone  (D License)
Moderator
Aug 22, 2001, 10:36 AM
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In reply to:
BTW, PhreeZone, your C-license is one digit above mine. Small world...
I finally got around to getting that since I dont need a licence to jump at my home DZ. Sunshine's C licence number is right around ours too. Need another 15 jumps and two night jumps to get the D.

Do I HAVE to do another raft dive??? Smile


Unisyn  (D 20515)

Aug 22, 2001, 12:21 PM
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Re: Reserve Size Question (Help!) [In reply to] Can't Post

The Tempo 210 WILL NOT fit into the Mirage M4. The pack volumes on the tempo reserves are not consistent. We understand that some riggers are not as proficient as others but in general we find that the PISA reserve pack volumes are larger than reported.

The proper fitting canopies for the M4 container are either the PD 160 or the Dash M 181.

Don't hesitate contacting me with questions.
MOST manufacturers are happy to answer your questions.
Bill Hallett
Mirage Systems



riggerrob  (D 14840)

Aug 24, 2001, 8:40 AM
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Only use volume numbers published by container manufacturers. Since they are the ones who "eat it" if a new container doesn't fit, they have an incentive to be honest. Just ask the factory which canopies will fit gracefully into their container.

Ignore most of the numbers published by canopy manufacturers. Their numbers are based on a variety of measuring methods with a large dose of salesmanship thrown in.
Did I word that with enough political correctness?



skymedic  (C 33561)

Aug 24, 2001, 10:29 AM
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your the PC king

Marc
Because I fly, I envy no man on earth


skreamer

Aug 25, 2001, 2:24 AM
Post #13 of 17 (1367 views)
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In reply to:
You can get a Raven shipped to you Rigged as a main if you want to try using it before "its your last parachute
Why isn't this done more commonly??? It is so easy to get demos on various mains before buying one, why can't the same be done for reserves (as above)?

One hears so much hypothesizing and speculation (and I suspect plain old bullshit) when people talk about reserves. Everybody swears blindly by theirs, but based on how much experience? If you only have one reserve ride, and have a bad landing, how is one to know if it was due to pilot error or the canopy? I have a Tempo '150 (exit weight 175 pounds and I have 70 jumps on an F111 7-cell, Lisa) and hear lots of negative comments - all from people who have never had a reserve ride on a Tempo. It would be nice if I could actually get to fly a Tempo, Raven and PD (at similar loadings) as mains, so I could form my own opinion.

So, why don't reserve manufacturers modify a couple of canopies and make them available as demo *mains*?

Will



Aviatrr  (D 27349)

Aug 26, 2001, 9:19 PM
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In reply to:
It would be nice if I could actually get to fly a Tempo, Raven and PD (at similar loadings) as mains, so I could form my own opinion.
I don't know about a Tempo - but with a Precision Raven or a PD Reserve, you can jump it "as a main".. Call the company and ask 'em for a demo.. I've done this with PD reserves, but not with the Raven series..

Mike



skreamer

Aug 27, 2001, 12:34 AM
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In reply to:
with a Precision Raven or a PD Reserve, you can jump it "as a main"..
Thats great, but is this available outside the states? Hmm, maybe I should contact them and find out. I'll let those of you interested (ie skydivers outside USA) know what they had to say).

Will



Pammi

Aug 27, 2001, 6:55 AM
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In reply to:
The second was my own Raven Dash-M 249 and it pounded my ass into the ground on an into-the-wind landing and there was a 5-7mph wind that day. The canopy folded just before my feet touched the ground.
The last one was two weeks ago, it was an instructor with 2000 jumps on another Micro-Raven 150 at 1.3:1, it didn't flare much at all and bruised the hell out of his heel.
Oh my. Anyone in the market for a Dash-M 109?! Um..not completely joking here. Smile

P

A new page! Bi-Plane pics!


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Aug 27, 2001, 8:59 AM
Post #17 of 17 (1303 views)
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Re: Reserve Size Question (Help!) [In reply to] Can't Post

Back in 1994 I made one jump on an Amigo 206 configured as a main. The Amigo 206 flew so welll that I vought an Amigo 172 reserve and it is still in my reserve container.
I strongly agree witth the concept of test jumping various reserve canopies packed as mains.
At a bare minimum, everyone should have to do a few jumps on a Triathlon the same size as their next reserve. Landing a heavily loaded seven cell will be a real eye-opener! Few skydivers appreciate how much farther main technology is ahead of reserve technology.




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