Forums: Skydiving: Skydiving History & Trivia:
The Rocket Jet Release

 

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

SEREJumper  (D 29555)

Jun 16, 2009, 3:57 PM
Post #1 of 42 (2686 views)
Shortcut
The Rocket Jet Release Can't Post

One of my old rigs has Rocket Jet releases for the reserve. I did a search and didn't come up with any info on them here, Poynters gave some good info.

Anyone have any old stories/ opinions on that type of release. Pros/Cons?


chutebuilder

Jun 16, 2009, 4:02 PM
Post #2 of 42 (2662 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SEREJumper] The Rocket Jet Release [In reply to] Can't Post

is it an old pioneer para twin??


airtwardo  (D License)

Jun 16, 2009, 4:31 PM
Post #3 of 42 (2652 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SEREJumper] The Rocket Jet Release [In reply to] Can't Post

I remember being at the collegiate nationals in 79 or 80 and a couple guys had rigs with those on them...they said it was in case they were ever 'getting dragged' in high winds with the round reserve.

Personally I couldn't then or now see having any kind of release on a reserve...just IN CASE! Wink


SEREJumper  (D 29555)

Jun 16, 2009, 4:46 PM
Post #4 of 42 (2647 views)
Shortcut
Re: [chutebuilder] The Rocket Jet Release [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
is it an old pioneer para twin??

Well there goes another "name that container" thread! You are good, didn't even have to use a picture!

Yes, it is a Pro (Professional) Para-Twin with the option of putting the reserve on the front or back.

How many rigs back in the day had these releases, I'm guessing not that many.


(This post was edited by SEREJumper on Jun 16, 2009, 4:47 PM)


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Jun 16, 2009, 4:47 PM
Post #5 of 42 (2645 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SEREJumper] The Rocket Jet Release [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi SERE,

I am not so sure that 'release' is the correct term for them. I would consider 'connection' to be more appropriate.

They were not designed for any type of 'quick release' and they were designed for connecting things.

They had some what of a 'life' in the sport gear but they could not compare to the 1 1/2 shots.

Just my thoughts . . . .

JerryBaumchen

PS) I 2nd Twardo's thoughts. Crazy I mean, who wants to go 'Oops.'


SEREJumper  (D 29555)

Jun 16, 2009, 4:55 PM
Post #6 of 42 (2642 views)
Shortcut
Re: [JerryBaumchen] The Rocket Jet Release [In reply to] Can't Post

I hear you. Poynter's called them releases, but "connection" does seem to be a more fitting word.

Considering that each of these connections has a lanyard with a cotter pin that secures the latch in the closed position as an (optional) safety wouldn't make it so much of a quick release either.

So I guess my idea of a 3 ring release and cutaway pillow on the reserve of my modern gear isnt's a good idea either Tongue Back to the drawing board.


howardwhite  (C 3896)

Jun 16, 2009, 5:32 PM
Post #7 of 42 (2625 views)
Shortcut
Re: [JerryBaumchen] The Rocket Jet Release [In reply to] Can't Post

So an original two-shot Capewell thingie, definitely not intended for cutting away, does not merit the term "release"?

HW
(I'll post a picture of the Para-Twin later. I remember seeing a few around back in the day -- but only a few.)


(This post was edited by howardwhite on Jun 16, 2009, 5:34 PM)


skybill  (D 6009)

Jun 16, 2009, 7:13 PM
Post #8 of 42 (2597 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SEREJumper] The Rocket Jet Release [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi SERE,
Rocket Jets! OK as long as they held. They started getting a bad rap when some of them released on the pressure of opening shock!! That's when the center lock pin got added. If you like those, try to find some Koch fittings and Frost Fittings!!


SEREJumper  (D 29555)

Jun 16, 2009, 8:08 PM
Post #9 of 42 (2579 views)
Shortcut
Re: [skybill] The Rocket Jet Release [In reply to] Can't Post

Well I'm glad I have the updated ones Wink I've had a chance while training pilots/aircrew on emergency egress to use with the Koch/ Koch 2 and Frost releases.

The Koch 2nd generation is a nice design, but if I can remember right, they are ridiculously priced (as with anything sold to the govt.)


airtwardo  (D License)

Jun 16, 2009, 8:15 PM
Post #10 of 42 (2572 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SEREJumper] The Rocket Jet Release [In reply to] Can't Post

http://books.google.com/...p;resnum=4#PPA125,M1

Page 125 & 126 for rocket, koch etc. descriptions.



...you know - for the kids! Wink


councilman24  (D 8631)

Jun 16, 2009, 9:14 PM
Post #11 of 42 (2555 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SEREJumper] The Rocket Jet Release [In reply to] Can't Post

I made a set of short risers with rocket jets in the middle with the intention of using them for intentional cutaways. Never did hook them up but still have them hanging around here. Used separable three ring harness rings instead.Wink


Krip  (Student)

Jun 16, 2009, 9:37 PM
Post #12 of 42 (2550 views)
Shortcut
Re: [airtwardo] The Rocket Jet Release [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I remember being at the collegiate nationals in 79 or 80 and a couple guys had rigs with those on them...they said it was in case they were ever 'getting dragged' in high winds with the round reserve.

Personally I couldn't then or now see having any kind of release on a reserve...just IN CASE! Wink

I can barely Unsure remember when we were getting started in 1068-69 in abilene tx when a guy had some kind of a reversable piggy back. The guy was very experienced Wink("back in the day") and tall enough to wear one of those long piggy back rigs.

Anyway I still remember one day when he found out on the ground after a jump that his reseerve (back mounted) wasn't properly connected to his harness.If he had to use it on that jump he would have had a dual cutaway.Shocked

I was younger and dumber than I am now so don't know/remember what the owner did to screw up with the critical connection.

I guess the dude learned his lesson and continued to jump the rig until I moved on. Don't remember if he continued to switch the reserve from back to front and back Crazy but I doubt itLaugh.

Thanks for the memoryUnsure


SEREJumper  (D 29555)

Jun 16, 2009, 10:14 PM
Post #13 of 42 (2546 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Krip] The Rocket Jet Release [In reply to] Can't Post

At least with the para-twin (and I'm sure it would be the same for any other interchangeable rig), you can't just interchange them at will, since the reserve risers when packed are only packed for either a bellymount or the pig rig.

If it was hooked up the wrong way, the worst that would happen would be that the reserve/ steering would be backwards. Thats not so bad right Crazy.


(This post was edited by SEREJumper on Jun 16, 2009, 10:16 PM)


Krip  (Student)

Jun 17, 2009, 12:07 AM
Post #14 of 42 (2531 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SEREJumper] The Rocket Jet Release [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
At least with the para-twin (and I'm sure it would be the same for any other interchangeable rig), you can't just interchange them at will, since the reserve risers when packed are only packed for either a bellymount or the pig rig.

If it was hooked up the wrong way, the worst that would happen would be that the reserve/ steering would be backwards. Thats not so bad right Crazy.

Hi SERE

sorry I wasn't clearUnsure

When I was explaining the dude connected the risers the wrong way to the harness it was a lot worse than backwardsUnsure

If he had to use the reserve in the air it would have disconnected from the harnessPiratePirate

If I remember correctly the reserve container was connected to the main container on the back with a zipper. incorrect riser connectionUnsure the zipper would only keep the containers connected.

Might have been a pioneer product, maybe designed for doing intentional main cutaways, so two reserves were required.

Sorry it was a long time ago, even have trouble remembering the really good timesUnsure

Just like it did on the groundShocked


howardwhite  (C 3896)

Jun 17, 2009, 3:26 AM
Post #15 of 42 (2523 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Krip] The Rocket Jet Release [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I can barely Unsure remember when we were getting started in 1068-69 in abilene tx
Wow, that's really 'back in the day'.

HW


lekstrom10k  (D 3001)

Jun 17, 2009, 5:17 AM
Post #16 of 42 (2504 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SEREJumper] The Rocket Jet Release [In reply to] Can't Post

 I recall the main purpose of them was to leave thr container in the fighter jet as part of the ejection seat. the pilot would crawl up into his with a harness on. his crew wpuld snap him up with the risres sticking out of the seat. after the flight he would get unsnapped and on his way.
Connie Crowton went to now Archway in IL. to get certified as a Para-Plane dealer in late 60's or early 70's. The training first jump altitude was 7500, he only got about 2500and went anyway. The rig had rocket jet ejectors on the main risers he said he new everything right up until he bounced. Bluffing doesnt always make it a good judgement call


piper17  (D 3362)

Jun 17, 2009, 7:17 AM
Post #17 of 42 (2486 views)
Shortcut
Re: [howardwhite] The Rocket Jet Release [In reply to] Can't Post

Jim Bates had one IIRC...back in the day!


chutebuilder

Jun 17, 2009, 7:36 AM
Post #18 of 42 (2476 views)
Shortcut
Re: [lekstrom10k] The Rocket Jet Release [In reply to] Can't Post

WOW you remember old conrad crowton!he was jumping dick morgans personal gear on that jump.morgan didnt have rocket jets tho( i cant recall at the moment what they were,but they werent r.j's.i will look at my old pictures i have of ol tricky dick and see if can recall what they were.)after snyder and morgan got back to jersey, ed callahan had the task of cleaning morgans gear.afterward, morgan sold the reserve to some other local jumper.everytime it was used , a suspension line would break.i guess body fluids do damage to nylon over time.


BCA  (D 2203)

Jun 17, 2009, 7:42 AM
Post #19 of 42 (2471 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SEREJumper] The Rocket Jet Release [In reply to] Can't Post

Harry Johnston, a master rigger back in the day from Phoenix actually built a harness using rocket jets as a replacement for the main capewells. He must have had a tso or waiver, because several people used that setup for several years. As a matter of fact, Floyd Glover used that setup at both the 67 and 69 nationals. BTW, he was national accuracy champ in 67 and was also on the 69 US Team.

BCA


ryoder  (D 6663)

Jun 17, 2009, 8:24 AM
Post #20 of 42 (2464 views)
Shortcut
Re: [councilman24] The Rocket Jet Release [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I made a set of short risers with rocket jets in the middle with the intention of using them for intentional cutaways. Never did hook them up but still have them hanging around here. Used separable three ring harness rings instead.Wink

Long ago when I was experimenting with building my own canopies,
I made a front-mount cutaway container and used Rocket Jets to attach it to a standard Wonderhog.

On the day I got a baglock, I surprised myself by how quickly I was able to operate those releases.


councilman24  (D 8631)

Jun 17, 2009, 8:32 AM
Post #21 of 42 (2461 views)
Shortcut
Re: [ryoder] The Rocket Jet Release [In reply to] Can't Post

Good to know. I never jumped mine. I was kind of chicken because I didn't know anyone who had actually cut away with them in the air. Also, one had the milling just a little bit off and wouldn't slide out on it's own when released. I'm sure it would have come apart in the air but always wanted to change out that one. Have a replacement but didn't have access to a harness machine to redo them for many years.


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Jun 17, 2009, 11:56 AM
Post #22 of 42 (2424 views)
Shortcut
Re: [howardwhite] The Rocket Jet Release [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi howard and all of the rest of you,

Quote:
does not merit the term "release"?

My thinking ( not always appropriate Crazy ) is that is today's vernacular, 'release' would mean something to quickly release. With 'quickly' being subject to definition. Cool

Those old 2-shot Capewell fittings definitely would not meet today's idea of 'quick.'

IIRC ( and don't count on it ), Pioneer's Para-Twin dual backpack rig ( first reversable piggy back rig ) used the Rocket Jets to attach the reserve risers to the harness. This was the first rig in which the reserve container could be mounted on the back and/or the front. I think it first appeared ( other than with the Army Team ) with the '68 US Team. Gary Lewis out of Seattle used it with that team where most of the other members used the Chute Shop MiniSystem.

Also, the containers were held to the backpad via zippers which allowed you to mount the main container higher up on your back when you had the reserve in the front.

The story 'in the day' was this concept was to beat Security's patent on a back-mounted reserve container. When Security patented their back-mounted reserve they patented it for mounting above the main container, on either side of the main container & below the main container. Apparently Pioneer's 'removeable' reserve container got around the patent ( I am not an attorney ).

We only had one local guy with one & to solve the reserve on backwards problem, he assembled the reserve so it was on sideways; facing left or right if mounted on the front & vice-versa if mounted on the back. Hey, it was a 'solution.' Tongue

Later Security came out with a version in which you could mount the reserve on the back or chest. The reserve risers were attached to the container with D-rings & snaps. It also had zippers to relocate the main container on the backpad.

The Pioneer Para-Twin had a short life in the sport. One reason was their failure to offer colors as Security had been doing since '64; and as the Chute Shop & Strong started offering in about '70 or so.

So that is how I remember things; maybe correctly & maybe not. Pirate

JerryBaumchen

PS) Back about '67 or so there was a rumor that Loy Brydon had been working on some type of quick riser release using Rocket Jets. As the story went, he installed them on the harness upside down & upon opening the main went bye-bye. Sometimes things work & sometimes they don't. Tongue


Krip  (Student)

Jun 17, 2009, 12:03 PM
Post #23 of 42 (2423 views)
Shortcut
Re: [howardwhite] The Rocket Jet Release [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I can barely Unsure remember when we were getting started in 1068-69 in abilene tx
Wow, that's really 'back in the day'.

HW

Hi HW

Today will be "back in the day" tomorrow. reallyWink


chutebuilder

Jun 17, 2009, 8:20 PM
Post #24 of 42 (2375 views)
Shortcut
Re: [lekstrom10k] The Rocket Jet Release [In reply to] Can't Post

TORNADO releases... thats what dick morgan had on his rig.similar to rocket jets except you had 2 sliding thingies instead of one . 2x more complicated than rocket jets.


airtwardo  (D License)

Jun 18, 2009, 10:48 AM
Post #25 of 42 (2332 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Krip] The Rocket Jet Release [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
I can barely Unsure remember when we were getting started in 1068-69 in abilene tx
Wow, that's really 'back in the day'.

HW

Hi HW

Today will be "back in the day" tomorrow. reallyWink

I thought that was 'yesterday'?! Wink


First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Skydiving : Skydiving History & Trivia

 


Search for (options)