Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
How many jumps should you have before jumping a crossbraced?

 


Poll: How many jumps should you have before jumping a crossbraced?
250 13 / 14%
400 7 / 8%
600 18 / 20%
1000 42 / 46%
more 12 / 13%
92 total votes
 
Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

Jun 7, 2009, 6:53 PM
Post #1 of 16 (2041 views)
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How many jumps should you have before jumping a crossbraced? Can't Post

 


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Jun 7, 2009, 7:08 PM
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] How many jumps should you have before jumping a crossbraced? [In reply to] Can't Post

When Icarus first released the Extreme, they asked that potential buyers have done at least 500 jumps on an elliptical wing (Crossfire/Stiletto class) prior to jumping a crossbrace.

Total jump numbers don't matter. I have over 1000 jumps and have no business jumping a crossbraced canopy as all my jumps have been on conservative canopies at low wingloadings.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jun 7, 2009, 10:35 PM
Post #3 of 16 (1939 views)
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] How many jumps should you have before jumping a crossbraced? [In reply to] Can't Post

more than 6,000 jumps on round, triangular, square, rectangular and gently tapered canopies, but zero on cross-braced.

Truth is, I mostly jump tandems these days and am not comfortable under anything smaller than 135 square feet.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jun 7, 2009, 11:05 PM
Post #4 of 16 (1930 views)
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] How many jumps should you have before jumping a crossbraced? [In reply to] Can't Post

Asking "when should I jump a crossbraced canopy?" is like asking "am I ready for a blue canopy?"

If you weigh 130 pounds, you could probably jump a Xaos-21 135 at the 500 jump minimum. If you want a Xaos-27 88 and you weigh 180, a few thousand (most of which under 2:1 loaded ellipticals) would be a better call.


Martini  (D 23756)

Jun 8, 2009, 12:25 AM
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] How many jumps should you have before jumping a crossbraced? [In reply to] Can't Post

at least three, conservatively more like six. what did you expect with a question like that. sheesh


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Jun 8, 2009, 12:25 AM
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] How many jumps should you have before jumping a crossbraced? [In reply to] Can't Post

With the amount of jumps you have you should know if you are ready for that or not. Cool


Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

Jun 8, 2009, 2:21 PM
Post #7 of 16 (1717 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] How many jumps should you have before jumping a crossbraced? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
With the amount of jumps you have you should know if you are ready for that or not. Cool
Yup. Not about me. Just a general query relating to a decision the DZO made. He reaffirmed that 1.9 (or any other WL for that matter) crossbraced at 450 jumps won't be happening here.


D22369  (D 22369)

Jun 8, 2009, 3:14 PM
Post #8 of 16 (1680 views)
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] How many jumps should you have before jumping a crossbraced? [In reply to] Can't Post

The dzo/gear dealer I was working for near Portland asked me to test jump an xbraced 85' fx icarus he took in on trade, I had 1300 jumps at the time and 1000 of them were on 135-107' stilletto's with almost all of them high performance landings.
After inspecting the canopy fully I hooked it up and got it packed into my rig.

even now I cannot believe the huge case of the nerves I got from that first jump, I kept questioning my decision to jump this thing on the ride to 8000' - kept thinking of the differences from my normal ride - smaller, xbraced, 7cell - all links in the chain

opening was great, - where's the rest of the canopy?...lol. very very groundhungry, straight in approach on final on a no wind day to a tiptoe landing, I bought the canopy that weekend and spent the next two months doing hopnpops to learn what it could and couldnt do.

I put 1000 jumps on the poll,
without a big bag of tricks at your disposal and and a large bubble of awareness your a danger to anyone else in the air with you, not to mention what you can do to yourself in a brainfart moment

Roy


DrewEckhardt  (D 28461)

Jun 8, 2009, 3:42 PM
Post #9 of 16 (1660 views)
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] How many jumps should you have before jumping a crossbraced? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Maybe 600 to get down to 1.6 pounds/square foot where things get really interesting under conventional elliptical canopies, 600 jumps to really learn how to fly that, and 600 jumps on the next size after which you need a lower shutdown speed than you can get with conventional canopies to have pleasant landings at high density altitudes.

Coaching along the way would be a fine idea.

So 1800 with training.


vdschoor  (D 27300)

Jun 8, 2009, 5:23 PM
Post #10 of 16 (1607 views)
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] How many jumps should you have before jumping a crossbraced? [In reply to] Can't Post

There is no set number for this, skill wise (knowing how to land a canopy safely and walk away from it) the 500 jump minimum MIGHT be enough, but lately I am seeing more and more people downsize that have the right number of jumps, but that are lacking awareness under canopy, lack of judgement and in general lack of experience in the sport.

Getting to the manufacturer minimum number is easy, there are people that get to that level within a year of jumping.
I think what is missing for these people is the realization that these canopies are no joke..

Flying a Xbraced canopy is like driving a Ferrari with the pedal stuck to the floor in traffic in whatever super busy stretch of freeway you can come up with.

I havent jumped as much this year as I have other years due to other obligations, but I know for myself that I will be putting the Velocity for sale if I slow down even more (which I doubt will happen anytime soon)

They are NOT for people that only do 100 jumps a year....


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Jun 8, 2009, 9:28 PM
Post #11 of 16 (1548 views)
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] How many jumps should you have before jumping a crossbraced? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Yup. Not about me. Just a general query relating to a decision the DZO made. He reaffirmed that 1.9 (or any other WL for that matter) crossbraced at 450 jumps won't be happening here.
Well, thats his/her call. What is the point jumping a crossbraced with load 1.9 anyway?


jayrech

Jun 8, 2009, 9:34 PM
Post #12 of 16 (1546 views)
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] How many jumps should you have before jumping a crossbraced? [In reply to] Can't Post

I believe the reason for this thread is our DZO grounded a jumper this week when he caught her jumping a sub 100 cross braced canopy with about 450+ skydivers and a 1.9 wing loading. Her boyfriend a senior jumper 5000 plus jumps argued she was more than qualified, and the DZO disagreed as well as the chief instructor, and safety officer. The skydivers stormed off mad and said the DZOs decision was pathetic. Being a new jumper I asked the other skydivers who was in the wrong, and I'm curios what others think in this thread.


rhys  (D 95)

Jun 8, 2009, 10:57 PM
Post #13 of 16 (1526 views)
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Re: [jayrech] How many jumps should you have before jumping a crossbraced? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I believe the reason for this thread is our DZO grounded a jumper this week when he caught her jumping a sub 100 cross braced canopy with about 450+ skydivers and a 1.9 wing loading. Her boyfriend a senior jumper 5000 plus jumps argued she was more than qualified, and the DZO disagreed as well as the chief instructor, and safety officer. The skydivers stormed off mad and said the DZOs decision was pathetic. Being a new jumper I asked the other skydivers who was in the wrong, and I'm curios what others think in this thread.

Less than 500 jumps and a 1.9 wing loading is not a very good idea.

I don't believe there is any set number to make it through the progression for swooping, and it 'could' be possible at these numbers, only if the jumper had dedicated all of thier jumps with coaching in preparation and was also very talented.

I doubt that is the situation here.

Too many people are in a hurry to hurt themselves!


(This post was edited by rhys on Jun 8, 2009, 11:00 PM)


hcsvader  (E 2952)

Jun 9, 2009, 3:21 AM
Post #14 of 16 (1486 views)
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Re: [jayrech] How many jumps should you have before jumping a crossbraced? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I believe the reason for this thread is our DZO grounded a jumper this week when he caught her jumping a sub 100 cross braced canopy with about 450+ skydivers and a 1.9 wing loading. Her boyfriend a senior jumper 5000 plus jumps argued she was more than qualified, and the DZO disagreed as well as the chief instructor, and safety officer. The skydivers stormed off mad and said the DZOs decision was pathetic. Being a new jumper I asked the other skydivers who was in the wrong, and I'm curios what others think in this thread.

HEY!!! shut up and get back in the packing room! who let you outTongue

I'm a little hesitant to reply here but when your friends name starts comming up in a game of bounce bingo maybe they should take a few steps back.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jun 9, 2009, 5:44 AM
Post #15 of 16 (1442 views)
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Re: [jayrech] How many jumps should you have before jumping a crossbraced? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
he caught her jumping a sub 100 cross braced canopy with about 450+ skydivers and a 1.9 wing loading. Her boyfriend a senior jumper 5000 plus jumps argued she was more than qualified,

Good for the DZO. Between him and the 'senior jumper', the DZO was the only one thinking with a clear head.

There's no way that 450 jumps could prepare you for a 1.9 WL on any canopy or jumping an X-brace at any WL, let alone the combination of the two.

If you figure that the first 50 or 100 jumps are surely spent on student canopies, or just getting the basic concept of flight into a jumpers head, you're looking at 350 to 400 jumps at best realy 'learning' to fly a canopy.

So what did she do, spend 75 jumps between downsizing, or just make huge jumps in downsizing? Either way, neither of those two approaches will make you 'more than qualified' as the 'boyfriend' agrued.

Can one of the locals please pull this girl aside and explain to her that her 'boyfriend' doesn't have her best interest in mind. Her experience vs. her size and type of canopy are so far off base, and so far outside anything that would be considered 'safe'.

The fact that her equipment choice got her thrown off of the DZ should be a clear indicator that she's making a mistake, but I'm sure that the 'boyfriend' has convinced her otherwise.

This is a bad situation, and one that is likely to get worse. What I can't understand is that if this is already her boyfriend, he's already fucked her and should be well past the stage where he's trying to impress her with all of the skydiving 'opportunities' he can provide her, and should be at the point where he's trying to protect her, and make sure that she's making good choices and staying safe.


countzero  (D 32712)

Jun 9, 2009, 10:51 AM
Post #16 of 16 (1380 views)
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Re: [jayrech] How many jumps should you have before jumping a crossbraced? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Being a new jumper I asked the other skydivers who was in the wrong, and I'm curios what others think in this thread.

i think the DZO made a decision, for the present time, to avoid/ prevent possible injury to the jumper and other jumpers as well.



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