Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
Basic and Advanced Canopy flying: educational materials and videos

 

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frost  (D 25011)

Apr 14, 2009, 7:11 AM
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Basic and Advanced Canopy flying: educational materials and videos Can't Post

I was getting some questions about available canopy flight educational materials and videos, so i wanted to list the ones i know of personally.

While no video or book can ever replace individual training and jump experience, not everyone can attend Flight-1 or Germain's or other canopy courses.

Still, I dont think we have enough educational materials available, so feel free to add to this post to keep it as a reference to up and coming skydivers.

1. Brian Germain's Parachute and its Pilot - has been a great help to me personally. Even experienced jumpers can benefit from it, IMO - i had >1000 jumps when i read it and learned a lot from it.

2. Fly Like A Pro. Goody, but oldie? Have not seen it, but people have left positive feedback about this video over the years.

3. The new video from VASST - Canopy Control: Core Essentials DVD - I have not seen it myself, but judging by the description - indeed all essential skills that need to be in the arsenal of every jumper are covered and then some.

VASST material is new and that makes it even more interesting since the essential subject material is combined with the skills of a recognized producer.

Would be great if an experienced canopy pilot and coach (i volunteer Ian Drennan, since he has lots of free time) could see a copy of this DVD and write a short and unbiased review. I've no doubt it would be positive, but at least a newer pilot and a potential buyer can refer to it when making a decision to purchase this DVD.

P.S. Well, looks like i am a bit out of sync with the rest of the site :) - i really only follow a couple of forums :) There is a good review of the VASST DVD on the main page! But it's really worth another mention - the more educational materials out there the better!


(This post was edited by frost on Apr 14, 2009, 11:56 AM)


andyhughes

Apr 15, 2009, 1:27 AM
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The British Parachute Association (BPA) have a bunch of training manuals available both online and as hard copies....

http://www.bpa.org.uk/...ion/canopy-handling/

Check the following:
* CH Manual - Basic canopy handling
* CP Manual - Basic canopy piloting


(This post was edited by ianmdrennan on Dec 20, 2012, 2:31 PM)


Premier LouDiamond  (D 25931)
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Apr 15, 2009, 4:24 AM
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Have to agree, the BPA manuals are quite good.


frost  (D 25011)

Apr 15, 2009, 5:51 AM
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I like! :) Especially the CP manual pdf. Good stuff, thanks for the link


frost  (D 25011)

May 1, 2009, 8:30 AM
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Re: [frost] Basic and Advanced Canopy flying: educational materials and videos [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
3. The new video from VASST - Canopy Control: Core Essentials DVD

I had a chance to see this video recently (thank you DSE!) and i think it's a great learning tool for newer jumpers. It covers all the key material very well. Refer to the in-depth review of this DVD: http://www.dropzone.com/...ail_page.cgi?ID=714.

Of course, no DVD can ever be a replacement for a live Canopy Control course, like the Flight-1 or Brian Germain's classes, where the student can ask questions and get more in-depth information on any key concept. But it IS a great tool to review even after you have some jumps under your belt. Some of the core concepts frequently get lost or overlooked by experienced jumpers.




Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

May 31, 2009, 6:19 PM
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Re: [frost] Basic and Advanced Canopy flying: educational materials and videos [In reply to] Can't Post

As far as I know Brian Burke's original, very-inclusive canopy control sylabus is still somewhere on the Skydive Arizona website. Last I checked there was no direct link, but I am sure you can still access it. This, by the way, was the ABSOLUTE basis for both Jim Slaton's and Scott Miller's courses. It is, in my opinion, still the definitive standard of scientific explanation. Everyone of the people charging for instruction nowadays ought to be paying a fee to Brian. That is why I have never charged for instruction. I have nothing to add to what he wrote in 2000/2001. Nothing of consequence anyways...

Chuck


Nemo  (B License)

Aug 25, 2009, 8:19 AM
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Re: [SkymonkeyONE] Basic and Advanced Canopy flying: educational materials and videos [In reply to] Can't Post

Is this the Brian Burke canopy syllabus?


The Book of Canopy Control (via Jumptalk)


bluetwo  (C License)

Jun 24, 2010, 5:03 PM
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THREAD REVIVAL!

I started reading The Book Of Canopy Control and I plan to move on to the others sometime.

Thanks guys.


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Jun 25, 2010, 6:49 AM
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In reply to:
Is this the Brian Burke canopy syllabus?


The Book of Canopy Control (via Jumptalk)

Everyone with a brain in their head ought to copy this info to their desktop before it disappears. Seriously.


theonlyski  (D License)

Jun 25, 2010, 2:55 PM
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Re: [SkymonkeyONE] Basic and Advanced Canopy flying: educational materials and videos [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Is this the Brian Burke canopy syllabus?


The Book of Canopy Control (via Jumptalk)

Everyone with a brain in their head ought to copy this info to their desktop before it disappears. Seriously.

I've been told my brain is much lower than my head... guess I dont need the book then!


ChipK3  (D 31680)

Feb 1, 2011, 12:54 PM
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Re: [SkymonkeyONE] Basic and Advanced Canopy flying: educational materials and videos [In reply to] Can't Post

Figured I'd make a pdf of it in case the link disappeared.
Attachments: The Canopy Pilot's Handbook.pdf (222 KB)


bluetwo  (C License)

Feb 1, 2011, 1:02 PM
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Awesome, and I think I'll save it on my computer!!

:-)


deathwish603  (B License)

Mar 5, 2011, 11:40 AM
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Re: [frost] Basic and Advanced Canopy flying: educational materials and videos [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a VASST CANOPY CONTROL CORE ESSENTIALS DVD, I seen it more then once, and I tryed to remember everything that was there, then go to my DZ, and practice... the video is great, but its too much for one jump, or even a whole day on a DZ, but its stil NOT comparable to a CANOPY CONTROL CAMPS!!! I had one last summer, with Ian Drennan, from Flight-1, and I learned waaay more then from anybody else!!! the biggest difference was made by a VIDEOS, he filmed us and then we discussed it in a class, and it made a BIIIG difference in my Canopy Piloting. Ian also told us about our canopy specs, so it was way more then just a 7 or 9 cell and a sizes. If your friends can film your landing and you can see it, will coach you better then just a words !!! EVERY DZ MUST HAVE A CANOPY FLIGHT COACH, SO IF YOU CANT GO TO A FLIGHT-1 CAMP, FIND THAT COACH, AND TAKE A LESSON FROM HIM !!! ALSO, IF YOU REALLY WANT IT, YOU CAN ORGANIZE IT YOURSELF, CALL FLIGHT-1, ARRANGE A PRICES AND ALL, AND TALK TO A JUMPERS AT YOUR DZ AND A DZO, AND GET IT DONE AT YOUR HOME DZ !!!


rem

Mar 5, 2011, 5:08 PM
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Re: [deathwish603] Basic and Advanced Canopy flying: educational materials and videos [In reply to] Can't Post

+1
lucky to me, i've benefited from coaching for Landing at my home DZ.
and therefore, fully elliptic at 300jumps, and Xbrace 2.4WL at 500jumps, now training for swoop comp....
ok, the progress is not "extraordinary", that's because I'm not good.
BUT, without any injury.
just a few "roll-ball".


(This post was edited by rem on Mar 5, 2011, 5:23 PM)


mchamp  (D 32129)

Mar 5, 2011, 5:48 PM
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Brian Vacher 2011 BPA discussing Canopy Collisions

http://vimeo.com/19247594

Description:
Brian Vacher, from SafeFlightSchool.com, gives a talk about canopy collisions, how to avoid them and what to do if you are unlucky enough to be involved in one.

Presented at the British Parachute Association's Annual General meeting, held on the 22nd of January 2011 at the Coventry Hilton.


Premier Bluefox  (D 25693)

Feb 4, 2012, 12:44 PM
Post #17 of 30 (11127 views)
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Re: [frost] Basic and Advanced Canopy flying: educational materials and videos [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I was getting some questions about available canopy flight educational materials and videos, so i wanted to list the ones i know of personally.

While no video or book can ever replace individual training and jump experience, not everyone can attend Flight-1 or Germain's or other canopy courses.

Still, I dont think we have enough educational materials available, so feel free to add to this post to keep it as a reference to up and coming skydivers.

4. Brian Germain's BG-Online - Live canopy course delivered to your desktop. Its convenient because we can't all make it to the course but this course comes to you.


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
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Feb 4, 2012, 3:01 PM
Post #18 of 30 (11110 views)
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Re: [Bluefox] Basic and Advanced Canopy flying: educational materials and videos [In reply to] Can't Post

Jim Slaton tried that too. I can't speak to BG's course, but I don't like the idea of people trying to learn canopy control, or take a canopy course online.


AggieDave  (D License)

Feb 4, 2012, 3:56 PM
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Re: [ianmdrennan] Basic and Advanced Canopy flying: educational materials and videos [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Jim Slaton tried that too. I can't speak to BG's course, but I don't like the idea of people trying to learn canopy control, or take a canopy course online.

It could be useful for someone who had previously taken some in-person canopy courses from the same coach, but that person would really need to be in a more advanced stage. I also fail to see how it could be useful coaching with out another person videoing the student to send it to the coach. Even then, it would lack any depth to the instruction.

Part of the success to the current canopy coach process is that the student gets immediate feedback, then they go up and do it again with the changes suggested.


Premier Bluefox  (D 25693)

Feb 4, 2012, 6:08 PM
Post #20 of 30 (11088 views)
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In reply to:
Jim Slaton tried that too. I can't speak to BG's course, but I don't like the idea of people trying to learn canopy control, or take a canopy course online.

When I got my pilots license I had to take ground school. Why not have something like that for canopy piloting. I donít know about Jimís online offerings but this is not just online this is a live interactive training environment. Not just an online video


Premier Bluefox  (D 25693)

Feb 4, 2012, 6:18 PM
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Re: [AggieDave] Basic and Advanced Canopy flying: educational materials and videos [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It could be useful for someone who had previously taken some in-person canopy courses from the same coach, but that person would really need to be in a more advanced stage. I also fail to see how it could be useful coaching with out another person videoing the student to send it to the coach. Even then, it would lack any depth to the instruction.

Part of the success to the current canopy coach process is that the student gets immediate feedback, then they go up and do it again with the changes suggested.

AggieDave Ė Do you believe its possible to learn from someone else? So if you watched a video of someone making a mistake could you learn from it if someone was explaining the problem to you? Most people donít reinvent the wheel when it comes to fouling up a landing. So whether you can get someone else to video you or not there is still room to learn. Besides the live interactive training portal allows people to share their video and anyone can stand in a landing area and video landings.

As for learning from immediate feed back you are true that it can speed up the process but there have been studies that show deeper learning happens over time. A little coaching over a longer period of time can have more lasting results than a lot of coaching in a short time. Your brain has a chance to digest and catch up with all the info


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
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Feb 4, 2012, 6:23 PM
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Quote:
When I got my pilots license I had to take ground school. Why not have something like that for canopy piloting. I donít know about Jimís online offerings but this is not just online this is a live interactive training environment. Not just an online video

Ok, that makes more sense (that it's live) - and that I don't have a problem with since students can interact with the instructor. Live is good, it's more the "here, sit and watch this video" I have a problem with.


Premier Bluefox  (D 25693)

Feb 4, 2012, 6:37 PM
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In reply to:
Ok, that makes more sense (that it's live) - and that I don't have a problem with since students can interact with the instructor. Live is good, it's more the "here, sit and watch this video" I have a problem with.

Well a guess a video might be better than nothing but having the opportunity to talk, chat, see, ask questions, share videos, test and more is much better. A completely interactive environment that can reach people who don't have a course near them or can't afford to travel. Now that's even better.


AggieDave  (D License)

Feb 5, 2012, 6:17 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
It could be useful for someone who had previously taken some in-person canopy courses from the same coach, but that person would really need to be in a more advanced stage. I also fail to see how it could be useful coaching with out another person videoing the student to send it to the coach. Even then, it would lack any depth to the instruction.

Part of the success to the current canopy coach process is that the student gets immediate feedback, then they go up and do it again with the changes suggested.

AggieDave Ė Do you believe its possible to learn from someone else? So if you watched a video of someone making a mistake could you learn from it if someone was explaining the problem to you? Most people donít reinvent the wheel when it comes to fouling up a landing. So whether you can get someone else to video you or not there is still room to learn. Besides the live interactive training portal allows people to share their video and anyone can stand in a landing area and video landings.

Yes, but if it put together in a video and left to be watched by a student, then no. If those videos are used in conjunction with a live instructor then they can be very helpful.

You're right that we're not re-inventing the wheel with teaching landing technique, but I'll tell from my experience teaching canopy control to people that by-and-large the student always thinks they're doing something they're not. An example of this is that they universally think they're flaring further then they are and at the right correct altitude.


Premier Bluefox  (D 25693)

Feb 5, 2012, 11:15 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:

AggieDave Ė Do you believe its possible to learn from someone else? So if you watched a video of someone making a mistake could you learn from it if someone was explaining the problem to you? Most people donít reinvent the wheel when it comes to fouling up a landing. So whether you can get someone else to video you or not there is still room to learn. Besides the live interactive training portal allows people to share their video and anyone can stand in a landing area and video landings.

Yes, but if it put together in a video and left to be watched by a student, then no. If those videos are used in conjunction with a live instructor then they can be very helpful.

Yes I agree that the live part is critical so the student can ask questions.

In reply to:
You're right that we're not re-inventing the wheel with teaching landing technique, but I'll tell from my experience teaching canopy control to people that by-and-large the student always thinks they're doing something they're not. An example of this is that they universally think they're flaring further then they are and at the right correct altitude.

Yes I agree that students often don't realize what they are doing with their bodies. Body awareness seems to require a calm level headed brain state which is not always the case in students or any skydiver for that matter. Which is why we physically practice emergency procedures on the ground so they become muscle memory. Showing videos of someones landing can definitely be helpful to speed the learning process. (the interactive environment allows for this) but from what I have seen students make huge progress from watching other peoples videos debriefed as well. I think the critical point is it needs to be live, interactive and useful information.


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