Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
Shallow turns in ground effect.

 


VectorBoy  (F 321)

Jan 16, 2003, 8:04 PM
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Shallow turns in ground effect. Can't Post

 What is the proper way to do shallow turns while skiming along in ground effect slowly not at the extreme speeds and bank angles of the pro comp swoopers in the accuracy event?
Shallow bank, moderate speed and working up to a heading change slowly of more than just a few degrees. lets say 30 degrees. And then getting back under your canopy for a nice soft landing without running out of lift. Glen


skyboyblue

Jan 16, 2003, 8:24 PM
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Re: [VectorBoy] Shallow turns in ground effect. [In reply to] Can't Post

you talking about doing flat turns or carving?


VectorBoy  (F 321)

Jan 16, 2003, 8:33 PM
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Re: [skyboyblue] Shallow turns in ground effect. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm talking about turning during the flare on landing and being able to change your heading as much as 30 degrees and still having enough energy left over to finish the flare and land softly without wiping out horizontally. A shallower less extreme version of pro swoopers 90 degree 50 mph extreme bank angle manuever. Glen.


Hooknswoop  (D License)

Jan 16, 2003, 9:55 PM
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Re: [VectorBoy] Shallow turns in ground effect. [In reply to] Can't Post

A 30 degree change in heading, after starting the swoop, and returning the canopy above your head for a nice stand up landing requires a lot of energy. That energy is in the form of speed. Even when putting the end cell down , nearly to the ground, very few people can get a canopy to change it's heading by 90 degrees. That requires even more energy. urning while in the swoop shortens the distance of the swoop because now part of the canopy is keeping the jumper level in respect to the ground (requiring energy) and part of the canopy is providing the horizontal component of lift to turn the jumper (requiring energy). Also, in the turn the jumper is pulling "G's", requiring energy.

That being said, it is the same as a normal turn (one toggle is pulled down farther than the other), except added to the flare and will require a bit more flare.

It isn't somethig that should be attempted until very comfortable with a normal swoop. A good way to practice is crosswind swoops, turning the canopy into the wind during the swoop.

Hook


VectorBoy  (F 321)

Jan 16, 2003, 10:54 PM
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Re: [Hooknswoop] Shallow turns in ground effect. [In reply to] Can't Post

 Yup I was affraid of this. I'm no swooper and don't do anything other than a little carve on approach, so I guess I'll stick to little joggles in heading for fear of getting too sideways and not being able to get back under it. Glen


ramon  (D 26115)

Jan 17, 2003, 4:03 AM
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Re: [VectorBoy] Shallow turns in ground effect. [In reply to] Can't Post

Just like Hook said..speed.

I didn't start doing it till I was very consistently swooping at almost max canopy speed along the ground very consistently and it did in fact start out as cross wind landings where I decided to start small tunrs in to the wind.

One thing to note...some canopies do this better than others Tongue

ramon


Ron

Jan 17, 2003, 8:59 AM
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Re: [Hooknswoop] Shallow turns in ground effect. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Also, in the turn the jumper is pulling "G's", requiring energy.

And to add when you increase the G's on the wing, you increase the stall speed of the wing.

Add in the fact that you are in a turn and some of your lift will have to be used to turn (Horizontal component of lift is what causes a turn). Your stall speed will again increase.

Not something you want to do until you are very good at canopy flight. When in the groove, I can carve a little over 90 degrees. But that is on a canopy I have over 1000 jumps on, and over 2500 total. At 200 jumps on my Velocity I am just starting to carve it a little.

Ron


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Jan 17, 2003, 9:13 AM
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Re: [Ron] Shallow turns in ground effect. [In reply to] Can't Post

Ron, there is no double penalty in a level turn with regards to stall speed increase. The stall speed increases because of the additional G-load placed upon it, but not because you are losing lift in the turn.

You are correct in that lift needs to increase in the turn because the lift vector is changing directions. This required increase in lift will also mean an increase in induced drag. This will, of course, all other things being equal, also shorten the length of the swoop.



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