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THE MIRAGE G4 PROBLEM

 

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surfbum5412  (A 49444)

Mar 24, 2009, 8:38 PM
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THE MIRAGE G4 PROBLEM Can't Post

It's funny how not a lot of people talk about it, but The Mirage G4 lifts off the back when in a sitfly position. Yes, I'm talking about correctly measured rigs. I'm pissed too...I ordered a G4 not too long ago. I noticed this problem with the G4 in a couple of videos, and then I talked to the owners and they confirmed it.

HOW COULD ANYONE SAY THAT THESE RIGS ARE GREAT FOR FREEFLYING??


MrHixxx  (D 24144)

Mar 24, 2009, 10:57 PM
Post #2 of 70 (7211 views)
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Re: [surfbum5412] THE MIRAGE G4 PROBLEM [In reply to] Can't Post

It you have the correct sitfly position with your chin tucked in, back arched, and legs at right angles, your rig will fit fine. Go sitfly in the tunnel and comeback after and your rig will fit fine. WinkWinkWink

-Jon


surfbum5412  (A 49444)

Mar 24, 2009, 11:09 PM
Post #3 of 70 (7199 views)
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Re: [MrHixxx] THE MIRAGE G4 PROBLEM [In reply to] Can't Post

Does anyone have anything constructive and useful to add to this discussion? Anyone with first-hand experience?


LongWayToFall  (A 52639)

Mar 25, 2009, 12:40 AM
Post #4 of 70 (7171 views)
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Re: [surfbum5412] THE MIRAGE G4 PROBLEM [In reply to] Can't Post

I have seen a few pictures of articulated harnesses that have hip rings do this. Kinda like this photo:

http://www.skydivespain.com/.../071007IanSitFly.jpg

Is there any harm besides a dislocated main handle?


lilchief  (D 78149)

Mar 25, 2009, 3:16 AM
Post #5 of 70 (7136 views)
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Re: [LongWayToFall] THE MIRAGE G4 PROBLEM [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't see any harm. It doesn't look good, but as long as it doesn't move upwards on the back, it not a big issue IMO. I've also never read any reports of this being an issue in any incidents. Mirage are good and safe rigs. To the OP: I wouldn't worry about it.


for reference, I jump vector.


Stefan1983  (C 40181)

Mar 25, 2009, 5:33 AM
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Re: [surfbum5412] THE MIRAGE G4 PROBLEM [In reply to] Can't Post

I have got a G4 MX.....very tiny conainer with hip-rings only. Ordered a tight fit from mirage and havent these problems. My rig has cut-in laterals.
The Rig is placed absolutly bombproof on my back in every body position...

but I saw some G4`s with unisyn harness (Hip & chest rings) which have waay to much flexebility at the shoulders/ yoke part. I dont want to lose my Rig in a premature opening flying Headdown, so I got only the hip-ring option. Smile
Do you have a multiring harness?

Im not sure if this makes the difference....maybe yes because the chest rigs adds much more flexebility to the complete system.

I havent a good picture in freefall with my container which shows it in side-profile but it really fits like a glove without any movement..

hope this helps

gr stefan


davelepka  (D 21448)

Mar 25, 2009, 5:46 AM
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Re: [MrHixxx] THE MIRAGE G4 PROBLEM [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
It you have the correct sitfly position with your chin tucked in, back arched, and legs at right angles, your rig will fit fine. Go sitfly in the tunnel and comeback after and your rig will fit fine.

What if I don't have that sitfly position? What if I need to use a different position for a certain dive or certain move? Will a Mirage not fit correctly then?


kmfreefly  (D 22063)

Mar 25, 2009, 5:58 AM
Post #8 of 70 (7051 views)
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Re: [surfbum5412] THE MIRAGE G4 PROBLEM [In reply to] Can't Post

It depends if you have the elastic on back or cut-in laterals. If you have the elastic, tighten it quite a bit and it will stay in place.


EXTremeWade  (D 29835)

Mar 25, 2009, 6:24 AM
Post #9 of 70 (7015 views)
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Re: [kmfreefly] THE MIRAGE G4 PROBLEM [In reply to] Can't Post

To the OP, it happens to me all the time. You are not going to loose your rig in a total malfunction, and all will be safe. These rigs ARE great for freeflying and you should feel good about it, and not worry about the cosmetics. Contact Ward Hessing at Mirage. He will help you for more than I feel anyone on here will for specific questions.

Again, for the general problem, you are fine. You body contorts more than the cumbersome rig will any day, and its not a specific mold to your flexible body anyways. Even if you get it fitted, like mine is as well, a little shifting in harness, and sticking out a little on your back is common place in sit fly positions and with other rigs besides Mirage. Keep that on mind. You didnt waste your money. It will hold its shape and integrity longer than most rigs out there will, so be glad you have a G4. I know people that would give all their present gear for such a solid container like Mirage.

~EW


JohnRich  (D License)

Mar 25, 2009, 7:23 AM
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Re: [EXTremeWade] THE MIRAGE G4 PROBLEM [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
...sticking out a little on your back is common place in sit fly positions and with other rigs besides Mirage...

It doesn't have to be.
Two words: Adjustable laterals.
Attachments: Laterals.JPG (87.2 KB)


EXTremeWade  (D 29835)

Mar 25, 2009, 7:35 AM
Post #11 of 70 (6950 views)
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Re: [JohnRich] THE MIRAGE G4 PROBLEM [In reply to] Can't Post

Man...thats a great option you have..but as far a I know..unless you have the elastic option it's just somethin they got deal with and not WORRY about...


(This post was edited by EXTremeWade on Mar 25, 2009, 7:37 AM)


diablopilot  (D License)

Mar 25, 2009, 7:36 AM
Post #12 of 70 (6949 views)
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Re: [surfbum5412] THE MIRAGE G4 PROBLEM [In reply to] Can't Post

Funny I have more than a few jumps (aprox 500) on a Mirage G4 correctly measured for me with no such problem.

How do know that the harnesses were measured correctly and fit right?


surfbum5412  (A 49444)

Mar 25, 2009, 8:36 AM
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Re: [diablopilot] THE MIRAGE G4 PROBLEM [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Funny I have more than a few jumps (aprox 500) on a Mirage G4 correctly measured for me with no such problem.

How do know that the harnesses were measured correctly and fit right?

I talked to the owners and they were all custom made for them.

Also, the rigs that seemed to have the most problems were the fully articulated ones.


ger00039

Mar 25, 2009, 10:08 AM
Post #14 of 70 (6820 views)
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Re: [surfbum5412] THE MIRAGE G4 PROBLEM [In reply to] Can't Post

Never heard of problems you mentioned. Did about a hundred jumps sitfly or headdown with the Mirage G4 without any difficulties. Where did you find the videos you're talking about?


EXTremeWade  (D 29835)

Mar 25, 2009, 10:42 AM
Post #15 of 70 (6778 views)
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Re: [ger00039] THE MIRAGE G4 PROBLEM [In reply to] Can't Post

It is again, OK for the rig to separate itself from your back a little bit; its a natural arch/bend in your spin that does not care how well the rig fits. You can have it modified if you show Ward Hessing pictures of it in freefall, or have someone pull it the way it does in freefall on the ground, send it to him, and he will chop some of the in-set stabilizers off it to make it tighter.

I bought the G4 when I was 185 pounds in Iraq. I got out and am now a smaller body type jumping the rig that was made for 20 more pounds of extreme muscle. What I am saying is I got fitted "bigger" than what I am now ~160 pounds, and sometimes, it does come off the back a tad, but all in all, its not going anywhere and its totally safe my friend. 386-740-9222 . That should help you out. Give em' a call since you paid that good money for such a great rig...they will most likely do it at no cost and quick turn around time too ; )

Wade


diablopilot  (D License)

Mar 25, 2009, 9:00 PM
Post #16 of 70 (6572 views)
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Re: [surfbum5412] THE MIRAGE G4 PROBLEM [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Funny I have more than a few jumps (aprox 500) on a Mirage G4 correctly measured for me with no such problem.

How do know that the harnesses were measured correctly and fit right?

I talked to the owners and they were all custom made for them.

Also, the rigs that seemed to have the most problems were the fully articulated ones.

As was mine. Again, how do you know the rigs were measured right? Who did the measurements?


Unstable  (D 28930)

Mar 25, 2009, 9:06 PM
Post #17 of 70 (6567 views)
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Re: [surfbum5412] THE MIRAGE G4 PROBLEM [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Okay okay okay. You have a few options. Use a butt-bungie.They help.

Thing #2: Did you contact the Manufacturer before you started this on DZ.com? What did they say?Unimpressed


surfbum5412  (A 49444)

Mar 25, 2009, 10:16 PM
Post #18 of 70 (6534 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] THE MIRAGE G4 PROBLEM [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Funny I have more than a few jumps (aprox 500) on a Mirage G4 correctly measured for me with no such problem.

How do know that the harnesses were measured correctly and fit right?

I talked to the owners and they were all custom made for them.

Also, the rigs that seemed to have the most problems were the fully articulated ones.

As was mine. Again, how do you know the rigs were measured right? Who did the measurements?

Rigs were measured by Square One and other reputable dealers. No self-measured or second-hand rigs.


surfbum5412  (A 49444)

Mar 25, 2009, 10:24 PM
Post #19 of 70 (6528 views)
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Re: [Unstable] THE MIRAGE G4 PROBLEM [In reply to] Can't Post

Didn't contact manufacturer; just wanted to get a consensus. At Perris, the consensus is that these things lift big time. I have seen videos where they have lifted off the persons back 1 - 1 1/2 feet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWfJZW9PoPU
Check out 1:45 (1/2 foot seperation) and 2:11 (AT LEAST 1 foot of seperation)

I know both of those guys and they were both custom rigs.


EXTremeWade  (D 29835)

Mar 26, 2009, 4:58 AM
Post #20 of 70 (6451 views)
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Re: [surfbum5412] THE MIRAGE G4 PROBLEM [In reply to] Can't Post

So what are you trying to say!? Are you going to jump the G4 anymore or not? If so...give me your measurements and I will buy that container from you...I have plenty of people who wol dlove that G4 so put up, or shut up...


Unstable  (D 28930)

Mar 26, 2009, 8:05 AM
Post #21 of 70 (6374 views)
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Re: [surfbum5412] THE MIRAGE G4 PROBLEM [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Okay - I'm saying this in all friendliness, so please don't take this the wrong way.

Please contact the Manufacturer. Coming onto DZ.com with a gripe is generally considered bad form. Now I know a few of those folks at Mirage - trust me, they would and will bend over for a customer. Talk to Ward, talk to CHuting Star, and figure out what you have and what to do. If not, sell your mirage and buy a Racer or something - but I promise you that they'll work with you and help you out.


Stay safe man,


surfbum5412  (A 49444)

Mar 26, 2009, 8:15 AM
Post #22 of 70 (6356 views)
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Re: [EXTremeWade] THE MIRAGE G4 PROBLEM [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So what are you trying to say!? Are you going to jump the G4 anymore or not? If so...give me your measurements and I will buy that container from you...I have plenty of people who wol dlove that G4 so put up, or shut up...

Oh man...

I'm not on here to just bash a manufacturer, and my previous post asking for a consensus and first hand experience should confirm that. Mirage makes a damn good rig, but many people are having this problem and there are NO POSTS anywhere revolving around this issue. And it is an issue for freeflyers.


surfbum5412  (A 49444)

Mar 26, 2009, 8:20 AM
Post #23 of 70 (6348 views)
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Re: [Unstable] THE MIRAGE G4 PROBLEM [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Okay - I'm saying this in all friendliness, so please don't take this the wrong way.

Please contact the Manufacturer. Coming onto DZ.com with a gripe is generally considered bad form. Now I know a few of those folks at Mirage - trust me, they would and will bend over for a customer. Talk to Ward, talk to CHuting Star, and figure out what you have and what to do. If not, sell your mirage and buy a Racer or something - but I promise you that they'll work with you and help you out.


Stay safe man,

You're absolutely right that Mirage would do everything possible to take care of any customer issues; that's not what we're talking about.

And I'm not on here to gripe. I have asked for people's first hand experience and have offered FACTUAL EVIDENCE combined with the question: "is anyone having this problem?" That's not griping, man. That's opening a discussion for people to see if there is a problem that needs to be addressed.


Kynan1  (A 50652)

Mar 26, 2009, 1:15 PM
Post #24 of 70 (6251 views)
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Re: [surfbum5412] THE MIRAGE G4 PROBLEM [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

Okay - I'm saying this in all friendliness, so please don't take this the wrong way.

Please contact the Manufacturer. Coming onto DZ.com with a gripe is generally considered bad form. Now I know a few of those folks at Mirage - trust me, they would and will bend over for a customer. Talk to Ward, talk to CHuting Star, and figure out what you have and what to do. If not, sell your mirage and buy a Racer or something - but I promise you that they'll work with you and help you out.


Stay safe man,

You're absolutely right that Mirage would do everything possible to take care of any customer issues; that's not what we're talking about.

And I'm not on here to gripe. I have asked for people's first hand experience and have offered FACTUAL EVIDENCE combined with the question: "is anyone having this problem?" That's not griping, man. That's opening a discussion for people to see if there is a problem that needs to be addressed.
Meltdown.Cool


LloydDobbler  (D 30655)

Mar 26, 2009, 2:04 PM
Post #25 of 70 (6207 views)
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Re: [surfbum5412] THE MIRAGE G4 PROBLEM [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You're absolutely right that Mirage would do everything possible to take care of any customer issues; that's not what we're talking about.

And I'm not on here to gripe. I have asked for people's first hand experience and have offered FACTUAL EVIDENCE combined with the question: "is anyone having this problem?" That's not griping, man. That's opening a discussion for people to see if there is a problem that needs to be addressed.

And good on you for bringing a potential problem to light. However, up to this point I don't think you've made a good case to support your hypothesis. Your factual evidence doesn't account for a few variables.

You've seen people's custom rigs lift off their backs (so have I - both Mirage and non-Mirage). But you still need to account for JP's question about how you know these people were measured correctly.

If they were measured by the manufacturer, then it may be an issue. If not, that seems to be the first weak link in the chain. Esp. since several others have volunteered that their custom-made Mirage G4's have no such problem.

I just got a Liquid Sky suit, custom-made for me, and had Julio measure me. It fits like a glove. A friend just got a Deepseed suit, custom-made for her, and had a seamstress measure her for it. The arms came back too short.

Based on this factual evidence, should we assume that Deepseed has an issue with making arms too short on their suits?

**BTW, never owned a Mirage rig, don't work for Liquid Sky Wink, and not trying to flame you - just trying to point out that while opening up dialogue is good, we need to address all the possible links in the chain to see what's failing.


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