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Racer

 

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Megatron  (A 54082)

Feb 11, 2009, 10:36 PM
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Racer Can't Post

I recently bought an '05 Racer to practice packing with until my custom voodoo comes in. I have all my other gear, however, and wondered why not just jump the damn thing? It fits me very well and my sabre2 170 is a decent fit for the container..everything seems ok. I've heard on the other hand, that the racer is one of the worst rigs out there and "friends don't let friends jump a racer". The gear reviews all seem to give it a thumbs up but nearly every item is like that I've noticed..it seems that people all like their own gear so I feel the reviews are bias. What are some of you thoughts on the racer? Have there been any incidents due to poor design or gear failure alone (excluding common malfunctions due to packing error & such)? Should I jump it?


packing_jarrett  (D License)

Feb 11, 2009, 10:39 PM
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Re: [Megatron] Racer [In reply to] Can't Post

well obviously I'm biased but will tell you there is not an incident on a racer that is due to its design.

I think its a great rig.


(This post was edited by packing_jarrett on Feb 11, 2009, 10:40 PM)


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Feb 11, 2009, 11:17 PM
Post #3 of 96 (2915 views)
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Re: [Megatron] Racer [In reply to] Can't Post

If it's any consolation, I bought my custom Voodoo and had a friend immediately tell me that it has a high potential to malfunction....LaughLaughLaugh

If the Racer were a problematic container, they wouldn't still be on the market because no one would buy them.

I don't worry one second about my Voodoo, and you likely don't need to worry about your Racer, either.


MikeForsythe

Feb 12, 2009, 2:17 AM
Post #4 of 96 (2896 views)
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Re: [packing_jarrett] Racer [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
well obviously I'm biased but will tell you there is not an incident on a racer that is due to its design.
That is not true. You need to do research on their RSL. That being said, other than the two sided RSL (the single sided RSL is fine) the Racer is a great rig. I have worked for several container manufactures including Jump Shack and even when I worked at RWS I still jumped my Racer. It is light, very comfortable and small. Hell, even their tandem rigs only weigh about 38 lbs. Like DSE said, you dont make rigs for over 35 years and make a bad rig and stay in business.


pilotdave  (D License)

Feb 12, 2009, 5:53 AM
Post #5 of 96 (2837 views)
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Re: [Megatron] Racer [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't do it! There's nothing wrong with Racers themselves, but Racer jumpers are a cult! If you start jumping a Racer, you'll get sucked in and you'll never get out. You'll be posting positive gear reviews within days. And then you'll cancel your voodoo order and you'll order a brand new racer (which can be at your door 3 minutes after you order). And every time someone comes on dropzone.com to ask if they should buy a Javelin or a Mirage, you'll pipe up and suggest a Racer out of the blue as if anybody wanted that opinion. It's a sickness! Don't you see that it's happening already? Just by touching the thing, you want to jump it. It only gets worse. BURN THE RACER!

Or just jump it.

Dave


(This post was edited by pilotdave on Feb 12, 2009, 5:54 AM)


stitch  (C License)

Feb 12, 2009, 6:05 AM
Post #6 of 96 (2832 views)
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Re: [Megatron] Racer [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
but Racer jumpers are a cult!
Actually it's more of a religous war.


Everybody else out there don't jump Racers, because they enjoy rigs that look like bricks, are uncomfortable and are hard to pack.

Their motto is "It's not how good you skydive, it's how good you look getting on the plane." Angelic


beowulf  (C License)

Feb 12, 2009, 6:15 AM
Post #7 of 96 (2826 views)
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Re: [Megatron] Racer [In reply to] Can't Post

Let me get this straight??!! You bought a rig with no intentions of ever jumping it????!!!Crazy


stitch  (C License)

Feb 12, 2009, 6:20 AM
Post #8 of 96 (2818 views)
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Re: [Megatron] Racer [In reply to] Can't Post

How tall are you? Does the Racer fit? Since you're afraid of it, I'll make you a killer deal. I'll trade you a spiffy RI Talon 1 for it even and even pay for the shipping.


MikeForsythe

Feb 12, 2009, 6:38 AM
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Re: [pilotdave] Racer [In reply to] Can't Post

ROTFLMAO, that was some funny shit DaveTongueWinkCool


sid  (D 20135)

Feb 12, 2009, 6:44 AM
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Re: [MikeForsythe] Racer [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
ROTFLMAO, that was some funny shit DaveTongueWinkCool

I agree, I almost snorted the Kool Aid out of my nose........ Tongue


sid  (D 20135)

Feb 12, 2009, 6:46 AM
Post #11 of 96 (2791 views)
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Re: [pilotdave] Racer [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
And then you'll cancel your voodoo order and you'll order a brand new racer (which can be at your door 3 minutes after you order).

Dave

actually it's 3 minutes before you order it (we know what you're thinking)


councilman24  (D 8631)

Feb 12, 2009, 6:52 AM
Post #12 of 96 (2786 views)
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Re: [Megatron] Racer [In reply to] Can't Post

It seriously is a CULT.Mad

Kind of like Apple computers. Either you love them and think they are better than anything else or you think they are crap and would never jump one.

I'm in the latter catagory. The original ones weren't called Struggle, Struggle, Thump for nothing. Yes there have been incidents that can't happen with other designs. And there are incidents with other rigs that are more difficult to happen on a Racer.

But, there isn't probably a good reason for you not to jump it. If your main and reserve fits and the rig is airworthy. I suggest finding a rigger that is current and familiar with them.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Feb 12, 2009, 6:58 AM
Post #13 of 96 (2775 views)
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Re: [councilman24] Racer [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It seriously is a CULT.Mad

Kind of like Apple computers. Either you love them and think they are better than anything else or you think they are crap and would never jump one.

I'm in neither category, I think. I feel they're ugly, they aren't comfortable, and even if it was free I would not consider owning one.
But i have several jumps with a Racer on my back.


peregrinerose  (D 28983)

Feb 12, 2009, 7:16 AM
Post #14 of 96 (2757 views)
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Re: [Megatron] Racer [In reply to] Can't Post

My backup rig is a Racer, I have about 450 jumps on it, maybe more. My husband's first rig was a Racer, he had about 500 jumps on it. They are good rigs, we both had 1 sided RSLs on it. The only thing I don't like about newer Racers are the gazillions of rubber bands on the reserve freebag, so if I ever lose my free bag, I'm selling the rig.

I'm a rigger, and find Racers easier to pack than most reserves (with a few tricks). Jump Shack's customer service has always been very very good, even with my older model of Racer.

There's no reason not to jump the rig. Though I do think you have far more money than brains if you bought a good rig like that just to 'practice packing' Tongue


davelepka  (D 21448)

Feb 12, 2009, 7:20 AM
Post #15 of 96 (2742 views)
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Re: [Megatron] Racer [In reply to] Can't Post

 
A Racer is a solid rig. I've got 1000's of jumps on them, and know a couple of other guys with similar numbers of jumps on them without any problems.

The two sided RSL is different. It MUST be disconnected in a two out situation if you intend to cut away the main.

Aside from that, get it assembled, and just jump it.


NickDG  (D 8904)

Feb 12, 2009, 7:30 AM
Post #16 of 96 (2732 views)
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Re: [Megatron] Racer [In reply to] Can't Post

>>I've heard on the other hand, that the racer is one of the worst rigs out there<<

I've had four of them over the years starting with the original SST version. In my opinion (biased because I'm definitely in the cult, LOL) is it's the best rig out there.

There are Racers and there is everything else. Most other rigs are just clones of the same old and tired trap the pilot chute in the reserve container idea. And the rest, like the Javelin, and similar containers, are just semi-Racer copies with an extra reserve flap and the reserve ripcord pin(s) on the wrong side of the rig. In fact the very definition of a Javelin should be, "How to screw up a Racer."

John Sherman (Mr. Racer) has been building these rigs since before I started jumping. Buy anything else, except for maybe a Booth rig, and you're buying a rig from a relative newbie . . .

Some things I like:

The rig is "hinged" in the middle between the main and reserve container. This makes it way more comfortable than other rigs. It pulls the main container into the small of your back and keeps the rig from sliding around from side to side.

The main container pack tray almost disappears once the main pin comes out. Get one without the bucket corners (or have your Rigger remove the stitching in this area) and when your packer forgets to cock your pilot chute you'll still probably get a main as the pack tray doesn't trap the deployment bag inside it like other rigs.

The reserve ripcord pins are on the correct side of the rig, the front. After the Racer anytime I jumped a rig with exposed ripcord pins, and that's all other rigs, except for the Reflex, I felt like I was walking (and flying) around with my penis hanging out . . .

Racer rigs have the same amount of flaps per container since the very first one was produced. That's because they got it right from the beginning. Almost every other rig has added flaps over the years to "fix" their initial poor designs.

Racers are Rigger regulators. If you bring your Racer to a rigger who says they won't pack them because they don't like them, or some other likewise BS, it's really code for I don't pack them because I can't. And that's a good thing as now you can do yourself a favor and go find a real rigger . . .

On the con side, for years Racers always had issues with their riser covers. Yours is pretty recent so maybe they are sorted now but I never had one where they stayed closed. But I jumped for many years before any rig had riser covers so I never got all freaked out by it.

And a final word on the Pop Top. I'm not all that convinced that the reserve deployment is any faster with a Racer compared to other rigs, but having nothing (no flaps) between the reserve pilot chute and clean air is a big plus in my book. However, and to repeat, I really feel the protected reserve ripcord pins are the main advantage to Pop Tops.

On the other hand I bailed out of crashing Cessna going through 600-feet with a Pop Top once (after getting all my students out) and here I still am . . .

Now watch all the Racer haters raise a shit storm! Wink

NickD Smile


AggieDave  (D License)

Feb 12, 2009, 7:34 AM
Post #17 of 96 (2718 views)
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Re: [NickDG] Racer [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
between the reserve pilot chute and clean air is a big plus in my book. However, and to repeat, I really feel the protected reserve ripcord pins are the main advantage to Pop Tops.

Then my wife went through 1500' yanking on the reserve D-ring with both hands! She eventually got both of those pins pulled. We ordered a Wings that week for her! That POS Racer is in a box in a closet doing what it should do...collect dust.


packing_jarrett  (D License)

Feb 12, 2009, 7:48 AM
Post #18 of 96 (2703 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] Racer [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
yanking on the reserve D-ring with both hands!

can she pull 22lbs worth of D-ring? probably...
did the rigger pack it right? probably...not....

don't hate the playa hate the game Sly

Wings are good rigs too


AggieDave  (D License)

Feb 12, 2009, 7:51 AM
Post #19 of 96 (2696 views)
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Re: [packing_jarrett] Racer [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
can she pull 22lbs worth of D-ring? probably...
did the rigger pack it right? probably...not...

Sure, but 2-pins with a system that lends its self for a rigger to over tighten the reserve loops to keep the pop-top down compared to a single pin system...its easy to see how a system would be more prone to a severely hard pull/no pull.


packing_jarrett  (D License)

Feb 12, 2009, 8:01 AM
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Re: [AggieDave] Racer [In reply to] Can't Post

oh dude youre absolutely right. but I personally would start talking to a rigger about packing them right, before blaming the pop-top. The same can be done to a wings/javelin/mirage etc. it just may be a little harder to do.

but you are right that it is easier to over tighten a poptop


MikeForsythe

Feb 12, 2009, 8:05 AM
Post #21 of 96 (2674 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] Racer [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Sure, but 2-pins with a system that lends its self for a rigger to over tighten the reserve loops to keep the pop-top down compared to a single pin system...its easy to see how a system would be more prone to a severely hard pull/no pull.
Guess again. I guess you don't know about the girl that went in on a name brand one pin system that when they tested it had over 50lbs of pull force! I also guess you haven't seen riggers use the fulcrum tools to get reserves closed.

I use a pull gauge on every reserve pack that I do and NONE leave with over 22lbs. pull force. So the issue was not the rig.


AggieDave  (D License)

Feb 12, 2009, 8:07 AM
Post #22 of 96 (2671 views)
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Re: [MikeForsythe] Racer [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I guess you don't know about the girl that went in on a name brand one pin system that when they tested it had over 50lbs of pull force!


Hadn't seen it.

Mike, would you say that a typical rigger using typical tools that its easier to significantly over tighten a Racer compared to Brand X single pin rig?


Megatron  (A 54082)

Feb 12, 2009, 8:14 AM
Post #23 of 96 (2658 views)
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Re: [NickDG] Racer [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for you replies! Just to clarify, I didn't buy a new racer just to pack it. I bought it used ('05) and got a pretty good deal to where just having it for packing was worth the price.
Im gonna jump it though, just gotta have my cypress cutter swapped out for a 2 pin & the reserve packed. So far the only argument Ive heard against it were hard pulls which Im hoping I can avoid through careful packing & gear maintenance.

Got another question though: It seems while my main fits pretty well inside the d-bag (which came with the rig) the top corners of it can be seem peeking out between the top closing flap and the side flaps. Is this normal? Should the d-bag be covered completely? Keep in mind that I dont have a reserve in it right now so maybe that warps the container but it doesnt seem like the addition of a reserve would remedy the situation. For the record, the rest of the d-bag is held is fully encased and its just the very top corners that peek out.


MikeForsythe

Feb 12, 2009, 8:29 AM
Post #24 of 96 (2645 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] Racer [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Mike, would you say that a typical rigger using typical tools that its easier to significantly over tighten a Racer compared to Brand X single pin rig?
I guess you would have to define "typical". I haven't found a rig yet that can't be over tightened. I have seen one pin systems where the rigger repacking it did not distribute the reserve in the free bag correctly and bent the pin. When I asked them about it they said that it fit the last time it should have fit this time.

If a rigger is not familiar with a Racer then yes they could over tighten it. Using the example above the same could be done with any one pin system.

In the end it is a rigger issue. If a rigger is unfamiliar with the equipment they are better off not packing it.


Ronaldo  (D 34728)

Feb 12, 2009, 1:02 PM
Post #25 of 96 (2509 views)
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Re: [Megatron] Racer [In reply to] Can't Post

The canopy and/or bag may be too big for the container or the loop may be too long. Its not uncommon to see Racers packed as you described. What is main container size? For a 9 cell 170sqft I think you should have 400-475cubic inches. The Racer is one of the rigs that can accept the largest canopy size variations but wont look as good in all of them.
Its a very comfortable, lightweight and safe rig, especially if has tuck tabs instead of Velcro. Give it a chance to surprise you.
Have fun!


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