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Round Reserve

 

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Megatron  (A 54082)

Feb 8, 2009, 9:30 PM
Post #1 of 81 (3162 views)
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Round Reserve Can't Post

Why don't more people use a round reserve. I may be talking out of my ass here but from what I know they're opening characteristics are more stable, theyre less prone to malfunction, and are aren't as sensitive to body position on opening. Plus, they are far more compatible in a two-out scenario with a ram-air. Like I said, some of what I wrote may be untrue..just going on what I've heard so please give your input on the subject.


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Feb 8, 2009, 9:32 PM
Post #2 of 81 (3153 views)
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Re: [Megatron] Round Reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

Ever hear some old fart say "a round will get you down but a square will get you there"?


Megatron  (A 54082)

Feb 8, 2009, 9:40 PM
Post #3 of 81 (3147 views)
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Re: [skybytch] Round Reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm assuming that's referring to the fact that most rounds arent steerable. If what I wrote above is true then perhaps the increase in reliability is worth the loss of control. I would much rather deal with landing off or even in some trees than have a reserve mal and smash into the pea pit face first..something to consider. What about steerable rounds?


(This post was edited by Megatron on Feb 8, 2009, 9:43 PM)


Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

Feb 8, 2009, 10:02 PM
Post #4 of 81 (3136 views)
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Re: [Megatron] Round Reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

The malfunction rate for most rounds was much higher than it is for a modern rectangular canopy.
The real reason they are out of fashion is they are generally larger, bulkier, heavier and land worse.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Feb 8, 2009, 10:22 PM
Post #5 of 81 (3117 views)
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Re: [Megatron] Round Reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

1) Riggers are unfamiliar with them, and many containers are not certified for use with them.

2) They have either little or no glide, which means you'll be landing out.

3) They land you very hard. A PLF is required, and few people know how to do them nowadays.

4) They fly very differently than your main, and that's another thing to deal with during a cutaway.

5) Older rounds had a pretty high malfunction rate. (Newer ones with anti-inversion netting are much better, but not readily available to skydivers.)

OTOH, if the main reason you got a cypres was "in case I get knocked out" a big round will land you more safely if you're unconscious - and will not cause as much trouble if you pull low and have a two-out.


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Feb 8, 2009, 10:44 PM
Post #6 of 81 (3101 views)
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Re: [Megatron] Round Reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

Why don't you try to get a jump with a round main?
Than you see why most of the people don't want to use them anymore. FYI even some pilot bail-out rig can have square reserve...


nitrochute  (D License)

Feb 9, 2009, 12:04 AM
Post #7 of 81 (3086 views)
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Re: [skybytch] Round Reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

Pound your round, and flare your square!


jurgencamps  (D License)

Feb 9, 2009, 1:45 AM
Post #8 of 81 (3080 views)
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Re: [billvon] Round Reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
1) Riggers are unfamiliar with them, and many containers are not certified for use with them.

2) They have either little or no glide...

3) They land you very hard...

4) They fly very differently than your main ...

5) Older rounds had a pretty high malfunction rate...

6) Windlimits. Do you stop jumping if the winds are to much to jump a round, but still okay for a square?


SEREJumper  (D 29555)

Feb 9, 2009, 3:10 AM
Post #9 of 81 (3062 views)
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Re: [Megatron] Round Reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

If your DZ is around a lot of population, even a steerable round reserve may not give you a chance to at least pick your landing spot. You are pretty much at the mercy of the winds. Having buildings and power lines beneath you and a round above you is not a good combo.


stratostar  (Student)

Feb 9, 2009, 5:56 AM
Post #10 of 81 (3031 views)
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Re: [SEREJumper] Round Reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

Spot for the canopies on your back or front. Oh yea it's a lost art.Wink


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Feb 9, 2009, 6:12 AM
Post #11 of 81 (3023 views)
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Re: [jurgencamps] Round Reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
1) Riggers are unfamiliar with them, and many containers are not certified for use with them.

2) They have either little or no glide...

3) They land you very hard...

4) They fly very differently than your main ...

5) Older rounds had a pretty high malfunction rate...

6) Windlimits. Do you stop jumping if the winds are to much to jump a round, but still okay for a square?

7) Spotting. It's way more important when you have a round in your rig, and very few people know how to do it anymore.


Premier wmw999  (D 6296)

Feb 9, 2009, 7:06 AM
Post #12 of 81 (2987 views)
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Re: [skybytch] Round Reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

One thing about spotting for a round reserve when you have a square main is that you're spotting to make it somewhere safe, not necessarily the DZ. Assume that an out landing is in your future if there are noticeable winds, a square main, and a round reserve.

That's not necessarily an advantage, but it's pretty accurate.

Wendy W.


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Feb 9, 2009, 7:26 AM
Post #13 of 81 (2974 views)
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Re: [SEREJumper] Round Reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
If your DZ is around a lot of population, even a steerable round reserve may not give you a chance to at least pick your landing spot. You are pretty much at the mercy of the winds.

Accuracy competition started long before square canopies were on the scene.
Those who could not spot were 'at the mercy of the winds;" those who could spot used the winds to their advantage.


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Feb 9, 2009, 10:53 AM
Post #14 of 81 (2906 views)
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Re: [BIGUN] Round Reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
If your DZ is around a lot of population, even a steerable round reserve may not give you a chance to at least pick your landing spot. You are pretty much at the mercy of the winds.

Accuracy competition started long before square canopies were on the scene.
Those who could not spot were 'at the mercy of the winds;" those who could spot used the winds to their advantage.
Sure! Not so many people can make a stone axe or a brass spear head, but it could be really handy... Wink


Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

Feb 9, 2009, 10:59 AM
Post #15 of 81 (2900 views)
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Re: [BIGUN] Round Reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Accuracy competition started long before square canopies were on the scene.
Those who could not spot were 'at the mercy of the winds;" those who could spot used the winds to their advantage.

Maximum two groups on a pass.


DrewEckhardt  (D 28461)

Feb 9, 2009, 12:28 PM
Post #16 of 81 (2863 views)
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Re: [Megatron] Round Reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm assuming that's referring to the fact that most rounds arent steerable

Modern rounds are steerable, they just don't have enough forward speed to go anywhere to get you away from the forrest, gator infested swamp, or shotgun wileding farmer's field that you opened over.

In reply to:
. If what I wrote above is true then perhaps the increase in reliability is worth the loss of control. I would much rather deal with landing off or even in some trees than have a reserve mal and smash into the pea pit face first..something to consider. What about steerable rounds?

Your chances of a reserve malfunction that did not result from operating the canopy past its design limits (like a head-down Cypress fire in excess of 130 knots for older designs), criminal negligence packing (a molar strap around the reserve would do it), or errors in your emergency procedure execution (opening the reserve an then cutting away can lead to entanglements) are pretty much zero.

Low aspect ratio rectangular seven cells with forty-five minute pack jobs are a completely different animal than high aspect ratio tapered designs with six minute pack jobs.


DrewEckhardt  (D 28461)

Feb 9, 2009, 12:29 PM
Post #17 of 81 (2861 views)
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Re: [BIGUN] Round Reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
If your DZ is around a lot of population, even a steerable round reserve may not give you a chance to at least pick your landing spot. You are pretty much at the mercy of the winds.

Accuracy competition started long before square canopies were on the scene.
Those who could not spot were 'at the mercy of the winds;" those who could spot used the winds to their advantage.

And those accuracy competitions didn't put up to 22 people out on one pass.


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Feb 9, 2009, 12:42 PM
Post #18 of 81 (2847 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] Round Reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Sure! Not so many people can make a stone axe or a brass spear head, but it could be really handy...

from $811 Roundtrip
10:36 am Depart Tulsa (TUL) Tue 10-Feb
Arrive Helsinki (HEL) 10:35 am +1 day Wed 11- Feb
Ass-kicking Duration: 1 hr.
Drinking Duration: 10 hrs.
Depart Helsinki (HEL) 10:35 am +1 day Thur 12 - Feb
Arrive Tulsa (TUL) 10:35 am -1 day Thur 12 - Feb


ShockedLaugh


(This post was edited by BIGUN on Feb 9, 2009, 12:43 PM)


SEREJumper  (D 29555)

Feb 9, 2009, 12:48 PM
Post #19 of 81 (2844 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] Round Reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:
If your DZ is around a lot of population, even a steerable round reserve may not give you a chance to at least pick your landing spot. You are pretty much at the mercy of the winds.

Accuracy competition started long before square canopies were on the scene.
Those who could not spot were 'at the mercy of the winds;" those who could spot used the winds to their advantage.

I was speaking of having a mal and then using a round reserve, in which your spot is going to go to crap anyways, since you are more than likely going to be lower than your intended opening altitude.


(This post was edited by SEREJumper on Feb 9, 2009, 12:52 PM)


format  (B 15348)

Feb 9, 2009, 1:22 PM
Post #20 of 81 (2825 views)
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Re: [Megatron] Round Reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

I get it, the past,

but as I remember

your main isn't steerable? - ChopChop is a greater chance to...


__________________________________________________
do you prefer intentional hell as opposed to unintentional heaven?


format  (B 15348)

Feb 9, 2009, 1:27 PM
Post #21 of 81 (2819 views)
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Re: [format] Round Reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

What I really mean is:
"can you compare an fucking unavoidable obstacle to a two shaking legs toward beer"?


councilman24  (D 8631)

Feb 9, 2009, 1:39 PM
Post #22 of 81 (2813 views)
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Re: [SEREJumper] Round Reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I was speaking of having a mal and then using a round reserve, in which your spot is going to go to crap anyways, since you are more than likely going to be lower than your intended opening altitude.

Ahh, but you spotted for a round RESERVE opening. Not you main opening altitude, unless of course that was a round also.Wink

BUT how many people opining on the evils of round canopies have ever jumped one?Mad

I decided to get a square when a beech load spot was way off. Myself under my PC and another guy under a piglet maybe watched the whole load make it back while we landed in the cemetary on the edge of the airport. And yes we could put them between the gravestones, ON PURPOSE.

I've landed a round a in a lot of places where a square with the forward speed would have made it harder. But of course may not have been landing there to start with using a square.

BTW the last round reserve I jumped (as a main 5 years ago) I put in the 30' pea pit from 1/2 mile out and 5000' exit. And that was about 18 years after the previous round jump.Cool

And the javelin pre skyhook manual still has round instructions in it. And I think I've seen line stowage loops in the bottom of a Vector III.


piratemike  (A 48868)

Feb 9, 2009, 2:29 PM
Post #23 of 81 (2791 views)
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Re: [Megatron] Round Reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Why don't more people use a round reserve. I may be talking out of my ass here but from what I know they're opening characteristics are more stable, theyre less prone to malfunction, ....

I'm sure somebody of more experience will comment on the reliability aspect, but I think that the failure rate of rounds isn't higher than square reserves.

Also, those rounds slam you into the ground so hard, I like my legs all not broken.
I don't really know howto do a proper PLF like I would need to do on a round.

Excellent question though.


(This post was edited by piratemike on Feb 9, 2009, 2:30 PM)


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Feb 9, 2009, 2:32 PM
Post #24 of 81 (2783 views)
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Re: [councilman24] Round Reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
BUT how many people opining on the evils of round canopies have ever jumped one?Mad

Got 9 jumps with RS-4/A.


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Feb 9, 2009, 2:35 PM
Post #25 of 81 (2780 views)
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Re: [BIGUN] Round Reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Sure! Not so many people can make a stone axe or a brass spear head, but it could be really handy...

from $811 Roundtrip
10:36 am Depart Tulsa (TUL) Tue 10-Feb
Arrive Helsinki (HEL) 10:35 am +1 day Wed 11- Feb
Ass-kicking Duration: 1 hr.
Drinking Duration: 10 hrs.
Depart Helsinki (HEL) 10:35 am +1 day Thur 12 - Feb
Arrive Tulsa (TUL) 10:35 am -1 day Thur 12 - Feb
ShockedLaugh
Are you coming to give lectures about stone-axe or how to make a brass spear head? The weather is not optimal for jumping a round, so you don't have to bring any. Wink


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