Jan 20, 2009, 5:02 AM
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Buyer Scams: Western Union and Certified "Cheques"
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Be very suspicious of any buyer or seller who wants to transact via Western Union or certified "cheque." These two phrases almost always seem to accompany a scam. I'll re-post this message periodically to get warnings live on the Classified page.
(This post was edited by j_ung on Jan 21, 2009, 8:52 AM)
Jan 20, 2009, 7:13 PM
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Re: [j_ung] Western Union and Certified "Cheques"
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I've heard about the scams through Western Union, but the company I work for accepts certified cheques all the time. What are the other payment options to be considered, if you don't happen to be dealing escrow through a DZ or rigger?
Not sure if I should post this type of question here. Feel free to move or delete :)
Thanks.
PhreeZone (D License)
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Jan 20, 2009, 8:02 PM
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Re: [skydude2000] Western Union and Certified "Cheques"
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Lots of "certified cheques" are being used by scammers that are either stolen checks or copies of checks that bounce since they are fraudulent. PayPal is a decent option since you can pay by credit card and use the insurance your Credit Card company offers to back the transaction.
Jan 20, 2009, 9:45 PM
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Re: [PhreeZone] Western Union and Certified "Cheques"
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Or,if you do transact via certified check, don't send the item until you're certain -- absolutely certain -- that your bank has authenticated the check. Call them and ask them specifically about it. These guys rely on the loopholes in the global financial system for their scams to succeed, and checks represent one of those holes.
(This post was edited by j_ung on Jan 20, 2009, 9:48 PM)
Jan 21, 2009, 7:12 AM
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Re: [j_ung] Western Union and Certified "Cheques"
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What if I'm the one sending the check? I wouldn't expect anyone to accept a personal cheque either. So what's best? Asking my DZO to make the transfer, and then hand him a wad of cash or clear up the account with him by direct payment or usual means?
How would HE make that transfer, generally, just out of curiosity?
Fake Shipping Agent or Money Order Scam If you are selling an item (especially a motorcycle, automobile, or other high dollar item) you will get e-mail attempting this scam. The scammer will attempt to purchase your bike with a money order. They will want you to take a money order for an amount larger than the purchase price for the bike. This scam works well because you are always thinking "how is he going to get the bike without paying for it", but the scammer isn't even after the bike! He is after your money! This scam is designed to get you to cash a counterfeit money order or cashiers check..
This is a typical scenario of how the scam works:
You have a bike for sale. You are asking $12000.
The scammer e-mails you with an offer to buy the bike. He may ask for photos of ask about the condition of the bike. He offer you a $11000. (A little fake haggling to make it sound good)
You reply with the information he requested and agree to sell for $11000.
He says he will purchase the bike. He asks if a money order is ok.
You agree to accept the money order.
He will give you some excuse for having wanting to send a money order for a larger amount. The most common excuse is that he has a friend who lives in the USA and owes him $15000. And because he can't easily cash the money order in his country he would like you to cash it and send the remainder to him or his "shipping agent" via Western Union.
This sounds good to you. You are thinking, "get a money order, cash it, and send the remainder. Wow, he must trust you with the a lot of money". You agree to his offer.
He wants your phone number and address. He wants to call you to verify the information.
You provide a phone number and address.
He calls you using a system designed for those who are deaf. You speak only to the operator and she relays the info. (They almost always use this type of service). On the call you can verify the address and terms etc.
The deal is all but done. You wait for a money order. It arrives FedEx overnight.
You also receive an e-mail reminder to get to the bank and cash it. The e-mail also gives you the address of Western Union locations near you.
You deposit $11000 from the money order in your account. You get $4000 to send to the shipper. You go to Western Union and send the money. You send $3995 and give Western Union $5.00 in fees. You e-mail the code to the "shipper".
With everything complete you wait for the shipping agent to come by and pick up the bike. A week will pass, maybe two weeks.
Soon you get a letter from your bank. They have charged your account $15000 plus $20 service fee because the money order was returned to them unpaid and marked counterfeit. You check with Western Union. The money was picked up and their is no way to recover it.
The final tally: The bank Western Union The Scammer You + $20.00 + $5.00 + $3995.00 - $4020.00
Jan 21, 2009, 8:42 AM
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Re: [skydude2000] Western Union and Certified "Cheques"
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In reply to:
What if I'm the one sending the check? I wouldn't expect anyone to accept a personal cheque either. So what's best? Asking my DZO to make the transfer, and then hand him a wad of cash or clear up the account with him by direct payment or usual means?
How would HE make that transfer, generally, just out of curiosity?
This may be just me, but I'd deal through Paypal exclusively. Even if somebody doesn't have a Paypal account, it's pretty easy for them to make the payment with a major credit card. Then you have some actual protection.
Even then, ask the standard questions: Where do you jump? Who's your rigger? And then contact those people to make sure the one who contacted you is telling the truth.
Jan 21, 2009, 10:20 AM
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Re: [j_ung] Western Union and Certified "Cheques"
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Creditcards aren't as common over here as in the States and opening a paypal account with a bank account as money source takes a while. So while I usually prefer paypal, over here bank transfers are sometimes faster and often cheaper. And just as safe (for the seller anyway). I've also accepted a cheque once, funny as the check fees cost the buyer as much as the freefly suit I was selling Money orders, Western Union and stuff, never.
So far, I haven't been burned with skydiving stuff, although I did receive a surprise hybrid triathlon once that was listed as a regular triathlon (or rather not specifically as a hybrid). It pays to be smart about the person you're dealing with, after a bit you'll pick out most scams immediately by just reading the first email. My tip: don't be afraid of dealing with foreigners or with people who's English isn't that great, but mind the warning lights in your head
Jan 24, 2009, 12:27 AM
Post #9 of 21
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Re: [j_ung] Buyer Scams: Western Union and Certified "Cheques"
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How can be untrustworthy someone who will send with pleasure the money via Western Union to unknow man? Such guy has to be naive or has to trust you as no other, but if you hold cash 10 minutes after, you can not be scamed. I just want to want say: Western Union transaction is dangerous only for buyer not for seller. Anyway better way is to disable sellers without filled up profile.Sorry for my English Stan
Jan 25, 2009, 9:36 PM
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Re: [Stanley76] Buyer Scams: Western Union and Certified "Cheques"
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Stan you are correct - except in these cases the scammers request to GET PAID through WU - and like you said, cash in hand, the buyer (in this case a legit person) is screwed.
Jan 26, 2009, 7:46 AM
Post #11 of 21
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Re: [Stanley76] Buyer Scams: Western Union and Certified "Cheques"
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In reply to:
How can be untrustworthy someone who will send with pleasure the money via Western Union to unknow man? Such guy has to be naive or has to trust you as no other, but if you hold cash 10 minutes after, you can not be scamed. I just want to want say: Western Union transaction is dangerous only for buyer not for seller. Anyway better way is to disable sellers without filled up profile.Sorry for my English Stan
The fake buyer won't wire you money through Western Union, he'll send you a counterfeit Western Union money order or a fake cheque, which will be made out for far more than the agreed upon price. He will then ask you to wire the excess to a "shipper" or somebody else via Western Union or some other similar service.
Aug 10, 2009, 7:46 PM
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Re: [j_ung] Western Union and Certified "Cheques"
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The idea of working through paypal is great because you have some assurance, but I tried to set up an account to buy some gear through that last week. It wouldn't recognize my bank transit #, and I wouldn't have been able to set it up with my credit card because the card company wouldn't approve a $3500 limit, even though I had the money in my savings account.
So for me the buyer, paypal was more of a hassle than I wanted to deal with.
Nov 25, 2009, 4:42 PM
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Re: [j_ung] Western Union and Certified "Cheques"
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Hi
I got fake money check send by post and he got my adress and name.I didnt went to the bank because i found whats going on also didnt give him my bank details .Can he still screw me up or i am save?
Nov 16, 2010, 5:11 AM
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Re: [likestojump] Western Union and Certified "Cheques"
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how about this guy: he is from London, won't tell me where he jumps or who his rigger is, and wants to pay with a certified check:
I am selling a 150 stiletto and when questioned about his experience level he responds with this:
"I don't understand what you talking about do you think if i don't think these was the right rig for me i would contact you?i jump 200,The FF's get along with RW's and etc... whatever your discipline my place can accommodate (shy of a swoop pond). ...And yes i know what am getting,"
Nov 22, 2010, 4:32 PM
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Re: [dave81] Western Union and Certified "Cheques"
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In reply to:
how about this guy: he is from London, won't tell me where he jumps or who his rigger is, and wants to pay with a certified check:
I am selling a 150 stiletto and when questioned about his experience level he responds with this:
"I don't understand what you talking about do you think if i don't think these was the right rig for me i would contact you?i jump 200,The FF's get along with RW's and etc... whatever your discipline my place can accommodate (shy of a swoop pond). ...And yes i know what am getting,"
I wouldn't take any kind of cheque from anyone where there are any questions.
Don't feel 100% comfortable with a buyer (ie won't say where he jumps or who his rigger is), don't accept any kind of cheque.
Feb 24, 2012, 10:52 AM
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Re: [j_ung] Buyer Scams: Western Union and Certified "Cheques"
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I just received a "Certified Cheque" for $2500.00 more than I was asking. This came from a guy who spoke excellent english and did not say he was sending certified funds. I took the check to the bank and they said it was not real and that a real one would have paperwork with it. This guy contacted three times and I told him no rig until I am sure the check is good, he said fine, no problem...These guys are getting good!!
Feb 27, 2012, 8:10 AM
Post #20 of 21
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Re: [j_ung] Buyer Scams: Western Union and Certified "Cheques"
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I've had good luck selling stuff with U.S. Postal money orders. Available at any post office, so they're convenient to get by the buyer. They have security features you can check, like a mylar strip as in paper bills, to see if they're obviously fake. If the buyer is outside the country, I ain't selling to him. Tough crap. If they're not willing to buy a postal money order, no deal.
As the seller, you are in charge. Don't let the buyer dictate how the deal will be transacted. Take charge and control it yourself. Tell them how it's going to be, and if they aren't willing to comply, don't make the deal.
Make such statements right up front in the ads, to drive away the scammers. State that you will accept postal money orders only, and only in the exact amount of the purchase, not a penny more. When scammers see that, they won't waste their time on you, because they know they can't steal from you.
(This post was edited by JohnRich on Feb 27, 2012, 8:14 AM)
Dec 23, 2012, 8:31 AM
Post #21 of 21
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Re: [j_ung] Buyer Scams: Western Union and Certified "Cheques"
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Get on the phone, call the home DZ, "Do you know this person?" Do they have a phone? Check the serial numbers with the manufacturer! Get refrences, most all of the bigger sales/hobby type's are expecting this and they have established good reputations...
If you just sit back and don't bother to be proactive at all then I say in some respects you deserve to be scammed!
If someone can't wait for a personal check to clear, if you are unable to verify who you are dealing with, if someone refuses to send their gear to a established rigger...then screw that and move on!!! It can be a small community out there and I personally dont trust anyone who uses a fake profile or refuses to provide at least a minimum of verification!!
AGAIN ALL THE MORE REASON that this site should verify all original posteer's USPA lic in the classified section!!! Ever get asked for your lic at some of the bigger drop zones? THAT'S because your lic is automatically being checked when you manifest!! There is no room for non-skydivers to be selling gear!! EVER!!!
Money orders, Western Union and stuff, never. 
