Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
sabre2 as first canopy

 


aesalon  (A 44993)

Jan 3, 2009, 9:54 PM
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sabre2 as first canopy Can't Post

i got my license in '04. i didn't skydive again till '06. then i did 12 jumps. half of those were on a pilot 210. i plan to get back into skydiving much more seriously before too long here. i want to start by buying gear.

in general, how suited is a sabre2 190 to a person of my experience and weight (180 lbs.).

beforehand, i know that the standard answer is, "talk to the instructors at your DZ and have them evaluate your piloting skills." i will definitely do this when the time comes, and will probably rent for my first few jumps when i return to the sport.

just wanted to hear some opinions on the sabre2 in general mostly.


(This post was edited by aesalon on Jan 3, 2009, 10:01 PM)


spindlee

Jan 3, 2009, 10:01 PM
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Re: [aesalon] sabre2 as first canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
especially as it applies to novices.
If i was you mate i would hire gear to the point that you have downsized to a size you will likely to be on for a long time then look at buying gear Smile. That way you can get experience on a few different types of canopies too. As always though like you said you will need to talk to your instructor.
I don't know if this is what you meant when mentioned about novices but the Sabre 2 is quite a fast canopy copmpared to student gear. A lot of experienced people do jump them too. Hope that helps Smile


aesalon  (A 44993)

Jan 3, 2009, 10:21 PM
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Re: [spindlee] sabre2 as first canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

you're right, i think i'll try a lot of different canopies before i decide. my only concern was the money i'd save by just buying one as soon as possible.

i have read that its a fast canopy used by lots of experienced canopy pilots. i also read that its good for learning to swoop with, which i realize i'm not ready for yet.

performance designs is somewhat discouraging towards novices using it in their description of the conopy.

you're right though. good advice. thanks.


spindlee

Jan 3, 2009, 10:30 PM
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Re: [aesalon] sabre2 as first canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

don't get me wrong, i know quite a few people who jump sabre 2's (probably the most popular canopy on my dz) what i meant was there good for the 'fresh off student status' to the more experienced guys.
I've only just ordered my 1st rig this weekend which i am happy i will have downsized to before it arrives. I'm currently jumping a sabre 2 (170) now until my new container arrives then i will use my spectre 150.

As for saving money, if you did buy now you would probably find yourself wanting a smaller canopy not long after you bought it, or even whilst your waiting for it to be made.

S

Smile


aesalon  (A 44993)

Jan 3, 2009, 10:48 PM
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Re: [spindlee] sabre2 as first canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

i could always sell the canopy i want to move on from though. it would be a little more tedious but more cost effective in the end. however, trying lots of different rentals would be a better experience, maybe worth the extra money.

i notice you're from near hibaldstow. my S/L instructor at marana in arizona was from manchester. and my girlfriend lives near belfast. i traveled all over the UK last year. nice place, bad weather though.

i also notice it looks like you might just be off student status too. a fellow padowan. thanks for the advice. happy jumping.


spindlee

Jan 3, 2009, 10:51 PM
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Re: [aesalon] sabre2 as first canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

Hibaldstow is a great dropzone Cool
Yep i have not long had my A license, just doing the theory behind the B license and FS1 stuff now.

Cheers


mnealtx  (B 30496)

Jan 4, 2009, 2:32 AM
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Re: [aesalon] sabre2 as first canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

My personal opinon (not an instructor, obviously) is that there's nothing wrong with the Sabre II as a first canopy - I jump one myself.

Given the fact that you're uncurrent (like me), if I were in your shoes I'd go larger - check out Brian Germain's downsizing chart (link). If you weigh 180, you're probably somewhere around 210 exit weight. Germain's chart recommends a 230 until 100 jumps at that weight.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jan 4, 2009, 6:11 AM
Post #8 of 19 (2318 views)
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Re: [aesalon] sabre2 as first canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

The Sabre2 is an excellent canopy for intermediate to advanced skydivers; you might want to re-think the wingloading, as mentioned by a couple of others.
Renting a 240, for example, might be a good start point for a jump or two, then try the 210. If you're really comfortable with a number of jumps on the 210, perhaps order the 190. However, if you're expecting to go uncurrent again...
Be safe out there!


GLIDEANGLE  (D 30292)

Jan 4, 2009, 7:33 AM
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Re: [aesalon] sabre2 as first canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

Both wing loading and canopy design are important in your decision.

Here is the USPA SIM section which addresses this topic (6-10: Canopy Flight Fundamentals)

http://www.uspa.org/...69/Default.aspx#1072

Also relevant is the "Downsizing Checklist" here:

http://www.dropzone.com/...etail_page.cgi?ID=47


brucet7  (C 38954)

Jan 4, 2009, 3:25 PM
Post #10 of 19 (2189 views)
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Re: [aesalon] sabre2 as first canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

I got a Sabre 2 as my first canopy. It took a bit to learn to land the thing but I am getting better. I was visiting a DZ in another state and a couple of instructors there suggested a two stage flare. I went home and talked my instructors/rigger and they said give it a try. That has been a helpful approach.


erdnarob  (D 364)

Jan 4, 2009, 6:10 PM
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Re: [aesalon] sabre2 as first canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

Sabre 2 is the best canopy at your level. Amazingly, the Sabre 2 has a long range of loading capabilities with performance increasing with loading. That's why you should borrow or rent a Sabre 2-190 (loading 1.1) to get used to it and when having the OK from an instructor try, after a good briefing, a Sabre 2-170 (loading at 1.23). You wouldn't believe how powerful is the flare of a Sabre-2.
This is the scenario suitable for you if you want to buy a canopy and keep it for 200-300 jumps at least.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
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Jan 4, 2009, 6:25 PM
Post #12 of 19 (2155 views)
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Re: [aesalon] sabre2 as first canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

>in general, how suited is a sabre2 190 to a person of my experience and
>weight (180 lbs.).

Sabre2 is a decent canopy, as is the Pilot and Safire. At those sizes they are all very similar. I'd recommend changing as little as possible at first i.e. start out with a Pilot 210. From there, a Sabre2/Pilot/Safire2 190ish size would be a good next step once you are comfortable under the Pilot 210 again, and have learned what you can on that size.


GaryRay  (C 37277)

Jan 4, 2009, 9:40 PM
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Re: [billvon] sabre2 as first canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

for whatever its worth, i flew a whole bunch of different canopies for my first 100 jumps, playing with them as much as i can, when i tried the sabre 2 i was a little worried at first b/c of what i heard, but i got a good brief from Ward hessig of Mirage before i tried it and really enjoyed it. the flare is really powerful and if you know how to fly it you can get a lot out of it. IE getting back from long spots and having a bad landing turn good. the flare is very powerful.


Chubba  (A 10160)

Jan 5, 2009, 2:30 PM
Post #14 of 19 (2031 views)
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Re: [aesalon] sabre2 as first canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

I bought a Sabre2 170 @ jump 24.

I absolutely love it, I'm loading it slightly lower (~0.95ish). The flare is amazing and the openings are extremely soft and snivelly, albeit a bit twisty and offheading atm while I'm refining my body position.

26 jumps on the canopy so far, 26 soft standup landings, the flare is soooo powerful.

Loaded under 1, the canopy flies quite docile in a straight line but still (compared to my previous canopies) turns quite fast/sharp, mucho fun.

VERY fun to land no wind.


EXTremeWade  (D 29835)

Jan 5, 2009, 4:37 PM
Post #15 of 19 (1995 views)
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Re: [Chubba] sabre2 as first canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a Sabre 2 135..and I have damn near all my jumps on it. I love it. I wanna demo a 107. They are rockin, overall great canopies you can fly with wing-suits, or do whatever with. Some may say other canopies to get like that spectre, but for the more "higher-performance 9-cell" without going elliptical, the Sabre2 is it my man. Be safe. Hook that shit low!


EXTremeWade  (D 29835)

Jan 5, 2009, 4:39 PM
Post #16 of 19 (1993 views)
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Re: [GaryRay] sabre2 as first canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
for whatever its worth, i flew a whole bunch of different canopies for my first 100 jumps, playing with them as much as i can, when i tried the sabre 2 i was a little worried at first b/c of what i heard, but i got a good brief from Ward hessig of Mirage before i tried it and really enjoyed it. the flare is really powerful and if you know how to fly it you can get a lot out of it. IE getting back from long spots and having a bad landing turn good. the flare is very powerful.

You will never not get back from a long spot with a Sabre 2 unless it is a horrible, horrible, spot, like miles, and miles out. Try a Katana with a long spot. Your entire back and shoulders will be sore for days after the weekend due to the amount of active piloting you have to do to keep her as floaty as possible..lol..


EXTremeWade  (D 29835)

Jan 5, 2009, 4:41 PM
Post #17 of 19 (1987 views)
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Re: [billvon] sabre2 as first canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
>in general, how suited is a sabre2 190 to a person of my experience and
>weight (180 lbs.).

Sabre2 is a decent canopy, as is the Pilot and Safire. At those sizes they are all very similar. I'd recommend changing as little as possible at first i.e. start out with a Pilot 210. From there, a Sabre2/Pilot/Safire2 190ish size would be a good next step once you are comfortable under the Pilot 210 again, and have learned what you can on that size.

Yep...that said it all Cool


(This post was edited by EXTremeWade on Jan 5, 2009, 4:41 PM)


RMK

Jan 24, 2009, 2:24 PM
Post #18 of 19 (1680 views)
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Re: [aesalon] sabre2 as first canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

A Sabre2 190 was my first canopy (I weigh 190) and I started jumping it with less than 40 jumps. This has been great for me and is a canopy with a quite wide envelope, so you wont outgrow it overnight.

I did take a canopy course before flying it and dropped down in stages from student 240 to 190. My experience has been good and I highly recommend the canopy.

However, as for your specific abilities; refer to your local coaches and maybe have a look through this forum (there is much discussion/advice on experience & jump numbers on this forum which you can search)


voltage  (A 50649)

Jan 28, 2009, 2:23 AM
Post #19 of 19 (1572 views)
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Re: [aesalon] sabre2 as first canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

To add another opinion, your initial idea seems quite reasonable to me. Of course you save by having your own gear, and it also will deepen your knowledge over jumping a lot of different gear. And there is time to try different gear later anyway (demos, ...).

I did the same thing, got my stuff early in my jumping career and have since jumped the same rig and canopy. There is a lot to learn about gear, canopy flight in general and in special conditions. For example it wasn't until a couple hundred jumps that I got a chance to do more serious canopy formation flight, or jump at higher altitude dropzones. Learn a different packing method, etc. etc.

While it seems that many people try to downsize as fast as possible I have found written nowhere that you are required to do so beside peer pressure. Depends wholly on you. I personally am very conservative in this regard as I try my best not to aquire any metal in my body.



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