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2 hours training for AFF?

 

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Premier cpoxon  (D 11665)
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Nov 25, 2008, 2:14 AM
Post #1 of 60 (6312 views)
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2 hours training for AFF? Can't Post

Is this journalistic non-sense/Red Bull spin?

From http://media.www.bsudailynews.com/...ontest-3561049.shtml

Quote:
Normally someone receives six hours of training before their first skydiving jump, Schilling said. But after only two hours, he was up in the plane and ready to jump.

And it was AFF rather than a tandem as I found this video


freefalle  (D 27777)

Nov 25, 2008, 2:37 AM
Post #2 of 60 (6270 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] 2 hours training for AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

yea, cause he had mad skills he didnt need no stinking 6 hour class.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Nov 25, 2008, 4:11 AM
Post #3 of 60 (6239 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] 2 hours training for AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

To be fair, note that the video caption indicates that he spent two days with the team. We don't know how much training was going on during those two days and we sure don't know that the writer, Allison Suer, knows what she is talking about.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Nov 25, 2008, 4:46 AM
Post #4 of 60 (6225 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] 2 hours training for AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

If any of that is true (2 hrs for AFF, 2 days to start base jumping), it would be typical of the Red Bull crowd. Aren't these the same guys that want to take over USPA so they can approve their own low pulls?

If these knuckleheads aren't careful, they're gonna screw the sport up beyond repair. The FAA is filled with stuffed shirts that would like nothing better than to limit skydiving anyway they can, and crap like this can't help.

Of course they have to find some way to "out risk" the Go Fast jet pack guys for the media.Crazy


voodew1  (D 25988)

Nov 25, 2008, 6:57 AM
Post #5 of 60 (6158 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] 2 hours training for AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

Come on guys --- its not like they used velos for student canopies


MakeItHappen

Nov 25, 2008, 7:13 AM
Post #6 of 60 (6147 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] 2 hours training for AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Is this journalistic non-sense/Red Bull spin?

From http://media.www.bsudailynews.com/...ontest-3561049.shtml

Quote:
Normally someone receives six hours of training before their first skydiving jump, Schilling said. But after only two hours, he was up in the plane and ready to jump.

And it was AFF rather than a tandem as I found this video

Wow that is pretty interesting.

Interesting pull at the 2:28 mark.
Interesting body position on a b.a.s.e. jump at the 4:00 mark.

It will be interesting to see if this guy continues.

.


kawisixer01  (C 38984)

Nov 25, 2008, 8:54 AM
Post #7 of 60 (6067 views)
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Re: [MakeItHappen] 2 hours training for AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

wow I can't friggin believe he didn't end up with a line twist from that stylish "spinning deployment". The most amazing part is everyone crowded around the tv watching the video and cheering him on like that was a good thing....


normiss  (D 28356)

Nov 25, 2008, 10:03 AM
Post #8 of 60 (6027 views)
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Re: [MakeItHappen] 2 hours training for AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

It would be more interesting to see if those "AFF" instructors get to keep their ratings.
Crazy


Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

Nov 25, 2008, 10:09 AM
Post #9 of 60 (6024 views)
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Re: [normiss] 2 hours training for AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

I must be thick this morning. Where is the video?


normiss  (D 28356)

Nov 25, 2008, 11:06 AM
Post #10 of 60 (5988 views)
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] 2 hours training for AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

lol
the word "video" in the OP.Wink
it's a cricky.


labrys  (D 29848)

Nov 25, 2008, 11:29 AM
Post #11 of 60 (5982 views)
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Re: [MakeItHappen] 2 hours training for AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
It will be interesting to see if this guy continues.

He has claimed that he wants to continue:

http://www.dropzone.com/...rum.cgi?post=3357288


Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

Nov 25, 2008, 11:46 AM
Post #12 of 60 (5968 views)
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Re: [normiss] 2 hours training for AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It would be more interesting to see if those "AFF" instructors get to keep their ratings.
Crazy
Well since the jumps took place on the Northwest director's drop zone and one of the instructors was her son, I'd say yes.Wink
Besides, what did you see that would warrant a review? The instructor's proximity during the second jump's pull (which was actually his fifth jump of the day) wasn't the greatest, but hardly worth yanking someone's rating.


Schoenauer  (D License)

Nov 25, 2008, 12:25 PM
Post #13 of 60 (5946 views)
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] 2 hours training for AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

Ditto.


voodew1  (D 25988)

Nov 25, 2008, 1:37 PM
Post #14 of 60 (5905 views)
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Re: [Schoenauer] 2 hours training for AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

actually the 'spinning' deployment is more common during AFF than a good stable deployment.
A little more experience and it goes away - you just talk about it and move on.

other than the short training there was nothing wrong with anything


normiss  (D 28356)

Nov 25, 2008, 1:44 PM
Post #15 of 60 (5900 views)
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Re: [voodew1] 2 hours training for AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

That was my only complaint.
2 hours just sounds like a disservice to the FJC student.


humanflite  (D 99999)

Nov 25, 2008, 2:15 PM
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Re: [In reply to] Can't Post

Link has broken

Here is a different one

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JD1FArI0bIU


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Nov 25, 2008, 2:35 PM
Post #17 of 60 (5868 views)
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Re: [voodew1] 2 hours training for AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
actually the 'spinning' deployment is more common during AFF than a good stable deployment.
A little more experience and it goes away - you just talk about it and move on.

other than the short training there was nothing wrong with anything

I wouldn't say spinning during deployment is more common than holding a heading at all. I've done buttloads of release dives with students from level 3 on up, and very few ended with a student spinning during deployment. In fact, maintaining a heading during deployment is part of the pass criteria at some point in every program (used to be levels 4 or 5 on traditional AFF).

Is shrugging off spinning during deployment another *new AFF* teaching technique?


labrys  (D 29848)

Nov 25, 2008, 2:45 PM
Post #18 of 60 (5865 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] 2 hours training for AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
very few ended with a student spinning during deployment

How many have ended with the student doing a single 360 during deployment? Do you consider that a spin?


JohnRich  (D License)

Nov 25, 2008, 2:49 PM
Post #19 of 60 (5859 views)
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Re: 2 hours training for AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
other than the short training there was nothing wrong with anything

As long as everything works correctly, the short training could suffice.

The problem is, you can't guarantee that everything is going to work correctly. Therefore, you must have longer training to make sure that the student knows how to react properly when things don't work correctly.

If the student had encountered a malfunction, and been injured by responding improperly, there would be heads rolling for this short training.

These guys just got lucky.

It's a stunt that should not be condoned.


(This post was edited by JohnRich on Nov 25, 2008, 2:49 PM)


labrys  (D 29848)

Nov 25, 2008, 2:53 PM
Post #20 of 60 (5849 views)
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Re: [JohnRich] 2 hours training for AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
These guys just got lucky.

It's a stunt that should not be condoned.

I think that what Pops said earlier is worth repeating:

Quote:
To be fair, note that the video caption indicates that he spent two days with the team. We don't know how much training was going on during those two days and we sure don't know that the writer, Allison Suer, knows what she is talking about.


voodew1  (D 25988)

Nov 25, 2008, 3:21 PM
Post #21 of 60 (5827 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] 2 hours training for AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

I believe I put the word SPINNING in ''s as spinning and turning are 2 different things --- I would have had no problem passing the jump in question

And if your failing a student for not holding a heading at pull time its no wonder skydiving is decreasing!


ozzy13  (D 29344)

Nov 25, 2008, 5:07 PM
Post #22 of 60 (5786 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] 2 hours training for AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
To be fair, note that the video caption indicates that he spent two days with the team. We don't know how much training was going on during those two days and we sure don't know that the writer, Allison Suer, knows what she is talking about.

from the article

Normally someone receives six hours of training before their first skydiving jump, Schilling said. But after only two hours, he was up in the plane and ready to jump.


labrys  (D 29848)

Nov 25, 2008, 5:25 PM
Post #23 of 60 (5770 views)
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Re: [ozzy13] 2 hours training for AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
from the article

Normally someone receives six hours of training before their first skydiving jump, Schilling said. But after only two hours, he was up in the plane and ready to jump.

Still ignoring the part where he spent 2 days with the team prior to that, eh?

Jeez, man. If we believed the papers we would be spending all of our time trying to figure out and correct why so many people went in because their "chutes failed to open"

It's media. It might be bullshit. It might win the lottery and be correct. Take it as such.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Nov 25, 2008, 5:25 PM
Post #24 of 60 (5769 views)
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Re: [voodew1] 2 hours training for AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I believe I put the word SPINNING in ''s as spinning and turning are 2 different things --- I would have had no problem passing the jump in question

And if your failing a student for not holding a heading at pull time its no wonder skydiving is decreasing!

I'm not failing anyone. I've been retired from instructing for a while now. For what it's worth, when I was instructing, we had a highly focused AFF program that was growing our ranks like wildfire. That said, I'm also not questioning your judgment or opinion.

My point was/is pretty simple. The traditional AFF program had a specific heading maintenance requirement, and that included during deployment by levels 4 and 5. No, an instructor wouldn't typically hold a student back if a "turn" during deployment happened, but a "spin" or inability to hold a heading on repeated jumps would have to be dealt with before moving them on to coaches (not even a formal rating at the time).

My question stands - at what point does a jumper have to demonstrate the ability to hold a heading during deployment - if ever?


labrys  (D 29848)

Nov 25, 2008, 5:32 PM
Post #25 of 60 (5765 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] 2 hours training for AFF? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The traditional AFF program had a specific heading maintenance requirement, and that included during deployment by levels 4 and 5.

What was the heading maintenance requirement? Was it 45 degrees? 90 degrees? !80 degrees?

If it was specific what was the number?


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