Forums: Skydiving: General Skydiving Discussions:
indoor skydiving

 


adrenaline_eri7  (Student)

Oct 21, 2008, 11:20 AM
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indoor skydiving Can't Post

does indoor skydiving count as flying hours?
i know thats prob a stupid question.....


i just signed up for the paraclete XP skyventure. It says its the same as 2 jumps, but do you get the credit for it? prob not....


mr_music11  (A License)

Oct 21, 2008, 11:26 AM
Post #2 of 23 (1609 views)
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Re: [adrenaline_eri7] indoor skydiving [In reply to] Can't Post

Nope... tunnel time does'nt count towards your freefall time.. had the same thought as you when I went to the wind tunnel in Union City, CA. However, as I'm sure others will chime in about, it is an EXTREMELY valuable tool in the learning curve. Lots of fun! But boy howdy is it expensive.. is usually best if you buy a block of time with friends and split the cost/time. As with most things skydiving.. save your pennies! Shocked Blue skies


adrenaline_eri7  (Student)

Oct 21, 2008, 11:55 AM
Post #3 of 23 (1587 views)
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Re: [mr_music11] indoor skydiving [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks that was helpful! :)


DrewEckhardt  (D 28461)

Oct 21, 2008, 12:10 PM
Post #4 of 23 (1570 views)
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Re: [mr_music11] indoor skydiving [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
But boy howdy is it expensive..

Tunnel time is dirt cheap.

An hour of freefall for flat 4-way with video runs $7500+ from airplanes and 2-way freefly with video $6000 but both are only $750 in a wind tunnel.

Of course, that assumes everyone packs for themselves.


mr_music11  (A License)

Oct 21, 2008, 2:47 PM
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Re: [DrewEckhardt] indoor skydiving [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Tunnel time is dirt cheap.

.

Ok.. put in terms as such, comparitivly so, yes.. cheaper.. but still.... wish I was ballin' more outta control so that I could afford that $750/hr even with 3 others! (I dont remember my experience being so cheap @the one in union city but cant remember the "block time" rate we got at the time)


pirana  (D 30661)

Oct 22, 2008, 9:03 AM
Post #6 of 23 (1347 views)
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Depends on your wants, needs, desires [In reply to] Can't Post

Tunnel is way more expensive from certain perspectives. Could be worth it if your needs dictate (such as you need to rack up a lot of practice time at terminal with video in a hurry).

Tunnel time seems like a good idea for competitors that want to get up the points-turning curve in a hurry. The it's-cheaper arguement might be valid if the person claiming so gave up proportional skydiving time in return. My observation though is that most who do the tunnel also skydive. So they are not really trading one for the other and saving money; they are adding to their total expenses; especially if they have to buy airline tickets, hotel rooms, eat on the road, etc.

For me, one hour of freefall time costs $1130 if I pack my own (which I do). As a bonus I get to learn exits, flying on the hill, canopy control, landing, beautiful scenery, etc.


kkeenan  (D 22164)

Oct 22, 2008, 9:27 AM
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Re: [pirana] Depends on your wants, needs, desires [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't forget all the intangibles you get on real skydives; possible malfunctions, cutaways, canopy collisions, botched landings, etc. Wink


ozzy13  (D 29344)

Oct 22, 2008, 10:42 AM
Post #8 of 23 (1307 views)
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Re: [pirana] Depends on your wants, needs, desires [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Tunnel is way more expensive from certain perspectives. Could be worth it if your needs dictate (such as you need to rack up a lot of practice time at terminal with video in a hurry).

Tunnel time seems like a good idea for competitors that want to get up the points-turning curve in a hurry. The it's-cheaper arguement might be valid if the person claiming so gave up proportional skydiving time in return. My observation though is that most who do the tunnel also skydive. So they are not really trading one for the other and saving money; they are adding to their total expenses; especially if they have to buy airline tickets, hotel rooms, eat on the road, etc.

For me, one hour of freefall time costs $1130 if I pack my own (which I do). As a bonus I get to learn exits, flying on the hill, canopy control, landing, beautiful scenery, etc.


Where do you jump that it cost $19 a jump? I divided $1130 by 60 and thats what it comes out too. In most freefly jumps its less then 60 sec on a jump. At least for me it is and I'm waving off at 3500 and getting out at 13500
With that you also get canopy skills . You wont get that in a wind tunnel

The nearest tunnel around here is 800 per hour. The benefit to a tunnel is that you are in there for more then one minute at a time and the learning curve is much faster that way

Ill take skydiving over the tunnel any day :)


(This post was edited by ozzy13 on Oct 22, 2008, 1:21 PM)


mr_music11  (A License)

Oct 22, 2008, 12:25 PM
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Re: [ozzy13] Depends on your wants, needs, desires [In reply to] Can't Post

[reply
Where do you jump that it cost $19 a jump?
Lodi, CA


ozzy13  (D 29344)

Oct 22, 2008, 1:04 PM
Post #10 of 23 (1232 views)
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Re: [mr_music11] Depends on your wants, needs, desires [In reply to] Can't Post

yea i know but that's not where he jumps. At least according to his profile. 1400 is more realistic across the nation in price per hour for free fall


mr_music11  (A License)

Oct 22, 2008, 5:10 PM
Post #11 of 23 (1171 views)
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Re: [ozzy13] Depends on your wants, needs, desires [In reply to] Can't Post

yeah.. dont really care how you add it up.. skydiving is NOT a cheap sport. Tunnel or otherwise.. its been said countless times on this site...... save your pennies. Cuz no matter which direction you take, you're bound to spend your pennies! blue ones


heavydude  (A 53326)

Oct 22, 2008, 7:46 PM
Post #12 of 23 (1129 views)
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Re: [adrenaline_eri7] indoor skydiving [In reply to] Can't Post

I vote for tunnel time as being very valuable for beginning skydivers. Staying centered in the tunnel and developing fall rate, turn skills resulted in way better "real" skydives for me. The intensity of doing 15 minutes(2 min runs) is a great learning tool providing you have a AFF instuctor in the tunnel as coach. You can do the same with more jumps but realistically as a student it is not 20-25 bucks a jump but AFF level prices at 200 per jump....makes tunnel look really attractive.


shropshire  (C License)

Oct 23, 2008, 12:52 AM
Post #13 of 23 (1094 views)
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Re: [adrenaline_eri7] indoor skydiving [In reply to] Can't Post

I can't fly for shit in the tunnel i.e. I can't fly for shit[full stop]

I love the tunnel but would rather jump from a plane.


pirana  (D 30661)

Oct 23, 2008, 5:28 AM
Post #14 of 23 (1064 views)
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Re: [ozzy13] Depends on your wants, needs, desires [In reply to] Can't Post

I figure 70 seconds freefall from 13K means 51.4 jumps Wink to get I hour of freefall. Multiplied by $22 per ride is $1131.43 for one hour in the dreamscape.

I'll probably do it someday just for kicks, or if I ever decide to compete at more than the lowest levels. Kids would probably really dig it too.

How quickly the money is spent is a bit of an ouch too. It's one thing to plunk down that much over several weeks in the summer, quite another to spend it all in one weekend.


tdog  (D 28800)

Oct 23, 2008, 6:26 AM
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Re: [adrenaline_eri7] indoor skydiving [In reply to] Can't Post

I am going to quote someone else in response to the original poster.

In reply to:
I can't fly for shit in the tunnel i.e. I can't fly for shit[full stop]

I love the tunnel but would rather jump from a plane.

Shropshire, sorry I am going to give you a bit of a hard time, but you are the perfect example.

This whole thread has turned into "Tunnel time costs X, skydiving costs Y". That is not the point...

I MUCH rather be in the sky. I have a tunnel 10 minutes from my office, but only fly a few times a year for myself with my money...

However, the tunnel IS THE TOOL for learning freefall skills. After dozens of hours of tunnel time coached on formation belly work, now I am using it for freefly skills. Hands down, I tell all students to go there for their coaching, as do I. A coach jump at the DZ costs 2 slots, gear rental if needed, and a fee to the coach if they charge. That is between $55 and $100 depending on who pays what. You get 40 seconds of working time where the coach cannot stand on the net and correct what is wrong before moving on.

In fact, I almost refuse to do coach jumps with students unless the skill cannot be worked on in the tunnel, such as exit counts, tracking, exits and major separation recovery - in addition to alti awareness and canopy control.

Here is the deal, and why I quoted Shropshire... I never have flown with Shropshire, so I don't know if it is true or not - but they claim they can't fly for shit.

The tunnel has the power to transform, and is transforming, skydivers to be better skydivers.

When you can't fly for shit - your enjoyment of skydiving is hindered. When you can fly, because you spent some cash to learn, you get invited on big way invitationals, you are a trusted member of the base or 2nd plane captain on boogie big ways where you have to get in as 20 people will dock on you from both planes, produce and/or jump in television commercials for money, and in the epic sunset tracking dives, you are "in" and not "out".

Even if you like whimsical freefly jumps, you will be able to fly around your friends in a sit and put gum on their shoes as a joke instead of touching them only once - on exit.

Falling from the sky and saying "I saw you in freefall, dude" gets old after a while. You need the skills to challenge yourself and move on to make this sport rewarding.

There is a modern trend with some, if not a lot, of skydivers - to freefly after 20 jumps and never go back to belly work. Those are the guys who never get in a sitfly dock, or if they do, it is sloppy and rough.

My final words of thought: I was on a 50 way and a very, very, very well respected freeflier asked to be on it. Airspeed was organizing it, but this freeflier soon began to help. He started coaching people on cross referencing, fall rate, levels and grip management. I asked him after the jump, "That is weird, hearing a freeflier talk about crossreferencing."

He said, "Our VRW team had to learn belly flying all over again and we spent hours getting coaching on belly formation skydiving, then took those skills and kept them, but turned our body to head down - and that is how we improved our skills.

So, in the long run. It does not matter if the tunnel costs more or less per minute. It does not matter if it counts towards a jump or not in student progression. Dollar for Dollar - someone with good coaching in the tunnel will progress farther and quicker than someone without.


(This post was edited by tdog on Oct 23, 2008, 6:33 AM)


davelepka  (D 21448)

Oct 23, 2008, 7:26 AM
Post #16 of 23 (1017 views)
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Re: [tdog] indoor skydiving [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
So, in the long run. It does not matter if the tunnel costs more or less per minute. It does not matter if it counts towards a jump or not in student progression. Dollar for Dollar - someone with good coaching in the tunnel will progress farther and quicker than someone without.

Limited to the freefall portion, not including the exit or breakoff.

When it comes to separation, deployment, and canopy control (aka saving your life), the tunnel is of no value.


Butters  (C 37840)

Oct 23, 2008, 7:34 AM
Post #17 of 23 (1004 views)
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Re: [adrenaline_eri7 ] indoor skydiving & [pirana] Depends on your wants, needs, desires [In reply to] Can't Post

If you're indoors you're not skydiving.

In reply to:
I figure 70 seconds freefall from 13K means 51.4 jumps Wink to get I hour of freefall. Multiplied by $22 per ride is $1131.43 for one hour in the dreamscape.

I'm paying ~$660 per hour. Cool


Baksteen  (C 708753)

Oct 23, 2008, 7:51 AM
Post #18 of 23 (988 views)
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Re: [Butters] indoor skydiving & [pirana] Depends on your wants, needs, desires [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, tunnel IS the perfect training tool for freefall.
But if I can't afford skydiving for a month after a tunnel camp then what's the point? Wink
To me tunnel is EXTRA, something I invest in when I can afford it.



In reply to:
If you're indoors you're not skydiving.
that's just a matter of time


pirana  (D 30661)

Oct 24, 2008, 9:46 AM
Post #19 of 23 (860 views)
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Re: [Butters] indoor skydiving & [pirana] Depends on your wants, needs, desires [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If you're indoors you're not skydiving.

In reply to:
I figure 70 seconds freefall from 13K means 51.4 jumps Wink to get I hour of freefall. Multiplied by $22 per ride is $1131.43 for one hour in the dreamscape.

I'm paying ~$660 per hour. Cool

That is because you are weird.Cool


Lastchance  (B 28828)

Oct 25, 2008, 10:05 AM
Post #20 of 23 (795 views)
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Re: [adrenaline_eri7] indoor skydiving [In reply to] Can't Post

To me the term indoor skydiving is an oxy moron. Skydiving is jumping out of an airplane with a parachute. There is no sky indoors. That is flying your body in a wind tunnel.Wink


shropshire  (C License)

Oct 25, 2008, 10:18 AM
Post #21 of 23 (791 views)
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Re: [Lastchance] indoor skydiving [In reply to] Can't Post

Now you are just splitting [h]airsTongue


fastphil  (D 5801)

Oct 27, 2008, 11:10 AM
Post #22 of 23 (695 views)
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Re: [kkeenan] Depends on your wants, needs, desires [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Don't forget all the intangibles you get on real skydives; possible malfunctions, cutaways, canopy collisions, botched landings, etc. Wink


I've seen jumps made indoors that come complete with possible malfunctions, canopy collisions and botched landings, but "flying hours" would take a long time to accrue...


SkyPainter  (Student)

Oct 27, 2008, 4:23 PM
Post #23 of 23 (646 views)
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Re: [Lastchance] indoor skydiving [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
There is no sky indoors. That is flying your body in a wind tunnel.Wink

Yep, true enough. BUT - a recent tunnel session finally cemented decent leg control for me, got me WAY more stable in the airstream, and I kicked-ass on my second attempt at AFF C-1. The JMs told me they were bored watching me fall, but I made their job a lot easier!

I will use the tunnel as a tool in my training - nothing replaces being in the sky, but one can work on body flight in a tunnel, then take it to the sky!



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