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Walking in the landing area...

 

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Bill_K  (D 30260)

Oct 20, 2008, 9:04 AM
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Walking in the landing area... Can't Post

Just a reminder for newer jumpers and in some cases some not so new jumpers. Keep your head on a dam swivel when walking in the landing area!! Low carving avoidance turns around somebody not paying attention can hurt or worse... Mad

I guess the fault is probably my own for not landing further out and taking the walk. Still though stopping and standing still when somebody is coming in on final is what I was taught and what I do. Experienced jumpers should know better.

Yesterday: I had a nice clear spot and was setup perfectly to make my spot, then unexpectedly a jumper who had landed before me and had picked his gear up started walking right across my line headed for others that were on his skydive. His back and side were turned to me. At 50-75 feet I started yelling to watch out and he finally turned; but I was still forced to make an avoidance turning flare, which worked out fine. Had he not stopped and/or I not changed course I would have hit him!! It was a good reminder to me the importance of standing still and watching the traffic behind you!! I was on a wing suit jump and was last down, when I setup for that spot the only other person still in the air was the other wing suit pilot. I picked my spot while on down wind as it was a clear area...

My skill bucket is a little fuller and my luck bucket a little more empty today I guess... BlushCrazySmile


(This post was edited by Bill_K on Oct 20, 2008, 10:09 AM)


millertime24  (C 38793)

Oct 20, 2008, 9:26 AM
Post #2 of 79 (2269 views)
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Re: [Bill_K] Walking in the landing area... [In reply to] Can't Post

Not to nitpick or anything, but you're saying that you perform HP landings in a crowded landing area?


yoink

Oct 20, 2008, 9:44 AM
Post #3 of 79 (2247 views)
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Re: [Bill_K] Walking in the landing area... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

I guess the fault is probably my own for not landing further out and taking the walk.

Never assume people on the ground will see you before you set-up. You're the pilot - pick a safe area for swooping.

You're best assuming everyone else is blind, deaf and stupid when it comes to your safety.

You certainly should not be performing 'low carving turns around anybody'. Treat people as a hazard to avoid. Smile


wildcard451  (D License)

Oct 20, 2008, 9:44 AM
Post #4 of 79 (2245 views)
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Re: [Bill_K] Walking in the landing area... [In reply to] Can't Post

You're the one flying the canopy. Don't hit people when you land. You are certainly capable of making a small course correction at 100ish feet to avoid someone.
However, if at 310 jumps you cannot do this, please quit jumping now as you are a danger to everyone else around you under canopy.

In the same light, it is up for everyone else to remember that your skydive is not over until you are back in the hangar, since you never know when someone who does not understand how to fly a parachute may come in and hit you as they land.


aresye  (B 31421)

Oct 20, 2008, 9:45 AM
Post #5 of 79 (2240 views)
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Re: [millertime24] Walking in the landing area... [In reply to] Can't Post

I fail to see where you see that. He says nothing of himself doing high-performance landings into a crowded area.

He mentiones the high-performance carving turns, but I think he was talking about other pilots, and the importance of keeping a good scan as you walk away from the landing area.


(This post was edited by aresye on Oct 20, 2008, 9:49 AM)


Bill_K  (D 30260)

Oct 20, 2008, 9:58 AM
Post #6 of 79 (2221 views)
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Re: [millertime24] Walking in the landing area... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Not to nitpick or anything, but you're saying that you perform HP landings in a crowded landing area?

NO, I don't fucking swoop. I guess I should have put that in my first post. Hell it was not even a 180 or anything else. It was a standard pattern with 90 degree turns. Period!!


Bill_K  (D 30260)

Oct 20, 2008, 10:02 AM
Post #7 of 79 (2214 views)
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Re: [wildcard451] Walking in the landing area... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You're the one flying the canopy. Don't hit people when you land. You are certainly capable of making a small course correction at 100ish feet to avoid someone.
However, if at 310 jumps you cannot do this, please quit jumping now as you are a danger to everyone else around you under canopy.

In the same light, it is up for everyone else to remember that your skydive is not over until you are back in the hangar, since you never know when someone who does not understand how to fly a parachute may come in and hit you as they land.

Again, I was not fucking swooping. I made a flare turn, you know one of those turns where you start the turn while also starting you flare, to do exactly what I did here, avoid hitting somebody. At 310 jumps and a wing loading of 1.2 and exactly one downsize and over 200 jumps on my current canopy, my whole comment was when your in the landing area, plz watch and stand still. And for what's it worth on my next jumps I landed much further out and took the walk.

Why do people ASSume that I must have been swooping... Mad


Bill_K  (D 30260)

Oct 20, 2008, 10:06 AM
Post #8 of 79 (2210 views)
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Re: [Bill_K] Walking in the landing area... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
but I was still forced to make an avoidance turning flare

Nowhere does it say I did a carving turn. I mentioned it, but I guess I should not have. A low flare turn is what I used to go around said jumper.

I only posted to try and be a help and to serve as a reminder that the skydive is not over until your back on the packing mat and packing.


virgin-burner

Oct 20, 2008, 10:09 AM
Post #9 of 79 (2206 views)
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Re: [Bill_K] Walking in the landing area... [In reply to] Can't Post

i was told in a canopy-course, if you complain about ANYTHING that might interact with your landing, take a step back.. Wink

its your OWN damn fault! Unimpressed


aresye  (B 31421)

Oct 20, 2008, 10:10 AM
Post #10 of 79 (2203 views)
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Re: [Bill_K] Walking in the landing area... [In reply to] Can't Post

Calm down a bit Bill. You know how people on DZ.com can be sometimes.

As for the other comments, please read the posts, and actually READ them. Don't be so quick to criticize over a small assumption.


Bill_K  (D 30260)

Oct 20, 2008, 10:17 AM
Post #11 of 79 (2195 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] Walking in the landing area... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
i was told in a canopy-course, if you complain about ANYTHING that might interact with your landing, take a step back.. Wink

its your OWN damn fault! Unimpressed

Well hell then, lets let anybody and everybody run willy nilly around the landing area. Then if somebody gets hit, well shit it had to be the canopy pilots fault. LaughCrazy

I took responsibility in the first post and said I should have picked a spot further out. I also said that I learned or was reminded of my mistake on subsequent jumps as well. Oh and in two canopy course that I've taken so far I was taught this little tool called a flare turn. I used it here and it worked out fine, stood the landing up and turned and asked the guy if he saw me. To which he responded yes. I'd say that my video says otherwise though. But your right it was 100% my fault. I should have picked a different spot... BlushUnimpressed


Bill_K  (D 30260)

Oct 20, 2008, 10:33 AM
Post #12 of 79 (2170 views)
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Re: [aresye] Walking in the landing area... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Calm down a bit Bill. You know how people on DZ.com can be sometimes.

As for the other comments, please read the posts, and actually READ them. Don't be so quick to criticize over a small assumption.

Yes, you are right. I over reacted a bit. I thought I was bringing up a good reminder, but I guess that only set myself up to get cracked on. No biggy, lesson learned. UnsureSmile


danielcroft  (D 31103)

Oct 20, 2008, 11:13 AM
Post #13 of 79 (2131 views)
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Re: [Bill_K] Walking in the landing area... [In reply to] Can't Post

I had a fun landing like that once. I was coming in on final, probably about 60ft up and was on course to land on someone (maybe 60 jumps at that stage, not saying I'm perfect here) I made a very small course correction to avoid that person only to find that there was someone else right in my way (again, not perfect). I realize I'm too low to make any drastic turns to avoid but that I'm lined up almost perfectly with his canopy, not him. I target fixate a little (you know, just for laughs) on his canopy on the ground, flare a bit too low (which I know) so I flare hard. I took one step & jumped over his canopy, finished my flare & landed in the peas standing up. LaughLaughLaugh

Most hilarious landing ever!

Could have been bad and I didn't exactly do the best job but I didn't hurt anyone else or myself. I learned something too. Wink


micduran  (C 35982)

Oct 20, 2008, 11:35 AM
Post #14 of 79 (2109 views)
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Re: [Bill_K] Walking in the landing area... [In reply to] Can't Post

I was standing still in the landing area one time. I was stowing my brakes when an asshat couldn't decide where she wanted to land. She decided to fly right into me from behind. Broke my arm and everything.
In that case it was HER fault! However, I learned to keep my head on swivel and watch landing canopies a lot more closely. I'll be ready to get the hell out of the way if I have to in the future.
We all need to take responsibility here.


Bill_K  (D 30260)

Oct 20, 2008, 12:00 PM
Post #15 of 79 (2089 views)
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Re: [micduran] Walking in the landing area... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I was standing still in the landing area one time. I was stowing my brakes when an asshat couldn't decide where she wanted to land. She decided to fly right into me from behind. Broke my arm and everything.
In that case it was HER fault! However, I learned to keep my head on swivel and watch landing canopies a lot more closely. I'll be ready to get the hell out of the way if I have to in the future.
We all need to take responsibility here.

Ouch. Unsure

I've watched my own video three or four times and I may post it here. I was fine until he started walking and I never saw him look up until I yelled down to look out, which point he did stop until I'd finished landing... I do think had he been looking he would not have started walking in the first place though.


peregrinerose  (D 28983)

Oct 20, 2008, 12:04 PM
Post #16 of 79 (2084 views)
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Re: [Bill_K] Walking in the landing area... [In reply to] Can't Post

As you turned on to final, were you watching the guy walking across your path? If so, is it possible that you had a bit of target fixation and realized it too late to simply adjust your flight path? This isn't a rip on you.... I did the exact same thing around 350 jumps, was staring at someone on the ground as I was landing, and where one looks, one goes. The only thing that kept us both in one piece was exactly the same landing you had. But it was my fault for not picking a clear area, away from other jumpers, and attending to that clear area rather than the other jumpers.


Bill_K  (D 30260)

Oct 20, 2008, 12:21 PM
Post #17 of 79 (2068 views)
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Re: [peregrinerose] Walking in the landing area... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
As you turned on to final, were you watching the guy walking across your path? If so, is it possible that you had a bit of target fixation and realized it too late to simply adjust your flight path? This isn't a rip on you.... I did the exact same thing around 350 jumps, was staring at someone on the ground as I was landing, and where one looks, one goes. The only thing that kept us both in one piece was exactly the same landing you had. But it was my fault for not picking a clear area, away from other jumpers, and attending to that clear area rather than the other jumpers.

I need to post the video I guess. My head is moving a good deal to include a couple more looks at the closest wind sock even after I turn on final. I suppose it's possible that I was fixated, however the video pretty clearly shows him standing still and a nice opening where I was going, and then he unexpectedly starts walking. He did not start moving until well after my final was established however!


(This post was edited by Bill_K on Oct 20, 2008, 12:24 PM)


aresye  (B 31421)

Oct 20, 2008, 12:24 PM
Post #18 of 79 (2061 views)
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Re: [peregrinerose] Walking in the landing area... [In reply to] Can't Post

There was a situation about 2 months ago, when I was coming out of a 90 degree front onto my final. A person walked right into the path of my surf. Luckily I had practiced up high on high-speed avoidance turns, or else I would have hit him. It was my fault in the first place. I lacked the situational awareness to spot the problem higher up, and have thus sense dropped high performance landings, and continue to improve my standard approaches since.


heavydude  (A 53326)

Oct 20, 2008, 1:09 PM
Post #19 of 79 (2035 views)
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Re: [Bill_K] Walking in the landing area... [In reply to] Can't Post

Was this in SD ? I remember seeing an identical incident yesterday.
In reply to:


Bill_K  (D 30260)

Oct 20, 2008, 1:10 PM
Post #20 of 79 (2029 views)
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Re: [heavydude] Walking in the landing area... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Was this in SD ? I remember seeing an identical incident yesterday.
In reply to:

no


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Oct 20, 2008, 1:12 PM
Post #21 of 79 (2029 views)
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Re: [Bill_K] Walking in the landing area... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I thought I was bringing up a good reminder, but I guess that only set myself up to get cracked on.

And you did bring up something that people tend to forget. The landing area is not for setting your brakes, bullshiting about the dive or trying to pick up chicks, it is for landing parachutes. Once you land turn and look behind you for other canopies. Move 90 degrees right or left and move out of the area.

But on the other hand I think you learned it take 2 to have a collision in the air or on the ground. It only takes one to avoid one. If you hit a jumper doing a normal landing you fucked up.

Sparky


danielcroft  (D 31103)

Oct 20, 2008, 2:28 PM
Post #22 of 79 (1969 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Walking in the landing area... [In reply to] Can't Post

Does this look familiar? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-6QURrgvp4

A friend of mine was taken out in the landing area (video is not of my friend), luckily nothing broken but her shoulder was pretty sore for a while. Fortunately for "the assassin", my friend is a doctor and set the assassin's broken nose before it started hurting.


(This post was edited by danielcroft on Oct 20, 2008, 2:28 PM)


millertime24  (C 38793)

Oct 20, 2008, 2:38 PM
Post #23 of 79 (1959 views)
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Re: [Bill_K] Walking in the landing area... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Not to nitpick or anything, but you're saying that you perform HP landings in a crowded landing area?

NO, I don't fucking swoop. I guess I should have put that in my first post. Hell it was not even a 180 or anything else. It was a standard pattern with 90 degree turns. Period!!

Normally when I'm flying my pattern and get on final with about 40-50' agl I mostly always let out a loud WOOOOO HOOOOO!!!!! It usually gets people to look up at you and maybe even notice other canopy traffic and its just fun to do (for me at least). Its just something I do that maybe you might want to try sometime.

Argumentative part deleted.


(This post was edited by billvon on Oct 20, 2008, 2:57 PM)


Chubba  (A 10160)

Oct 20, 2008, 4:50 PM
Post #24 of 79 (1906 views)
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Re: [Bill_K] Walking in the landing area... [In reply to] Can't Post

I stand completely still until they are on final and I know exactly where they are going.


Bill_K  (D 30260)

Oct 20, 2008, 6:22 PM
Post #25 of 79 (1861 views)
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Re: [Bill_K] Walking in the landing area... [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok here ya go. You can see how bad it wasn't!! The pattern was left hand and we were landing hanger on the right but flying it off set corner to corner. The wind socks are up top center when I'm on final and in the right center while on final over close to the hanger, but still in the grass. There is some crab on final because the winds were a little funky. I was nice about it on the ground too. Smile You'll hear me call out "watch your self" then you hear me say "thank you" and all while still in the air. Then I laugh it off and make one more little comment. Again my whole point of the thread was to be a reminder. Not to be a dick. Unimpressed

Enjoy, and go easy on me. Blush
clicky


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