Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Photography and Video:
Do you sell electronic photos?

 

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PharmerPhil  (D 23899)

Oct 2, 2008, 2:13 PM
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Do you sell electronic photos? Can't Post

I am wondering how many professional videots are selling their images in electronic format to jumpers. I have always been wary of letting my original electronic files slip into the www-ether, although I can totally understand people wanting to purchase electronic files rather than prints (hell, I would prefer them). Not so interested in corporate or magazine use, but more the average Joe-jumper that wants to buy an image for use as a screen saver, X-mas card, etc.

So do you sell electronic files of your images? What do you charge (d'oh, just violated a few collusion laws)? Have you ever been burned?


pilotdave  (D License)

Oct 2, 2008, 2:48 PM
Post #2 of 33 (2388 views)
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Re: [PharmerPhil] Do you sell electronic photos? [In reply to] Can't Post

I sell them in 3 sizes (because that's what smugmug allows)... 1 megapixel, 4 megapixels, and full size. I price them cheap because I don't do this to make money... I sell them so that people don't bug me for pictures all the time, they can just buy em. 25 cents, $1, $10 (at the moment). I use higher prices for tandem photos if I shot stills and they didn't buy a stills package... and I use an obtrusive watermark for those.

My DZ got a myspace page early this year... no idea why. But someone asked me to upload some pictures to it. I realized that a bunch of jumpers have myspace pages (even though they are too old for that sort of thing and myspace is the devil). I was surprised to find that a bunch of them had pages full of pictures I took, downloaded from my website. Oh well... that's what I post pictures for I guess... so my friends can enjoy them. I've actually sold over 300 pictures (probably more digital download sales than prints). No idea how many I've given away. Thousands, I'm sure.

For a short time I started using an obtrusive watermark across my pictures. I almost immediately got a request to remove it so that my friend could download the picture. I've pretty much given up on getting people to buy the pictures they like for 25 cents. Smile

It's a myspace world... nobody wants prints anymore. BTW, I do have a big one of yours hanging on my bedroom wall! Smile

Dave


(This post was edited by pilotdave on Oct 2, 2008, 2:50 PM)


vdschoor  (D 27300)

Oct 2, 2008, 3:26 PM
Post #3 of 33 (2375 views)
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Re: [PharmerPhil] Do you sell electronic photos? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

So do you sell electronic files of your images? What do you charge (d'oh, just violated a few collusion laws)? Have you ever been burned?

I charge the price of an 8x10 print for a digital photo, at "windows desktop quality" (72dpi)
The photo will be watermarked.

Just because it is easier to give files digitally, doesn't make it cheaper or "easier" to get that shot.


sinjin  (A 210530)

Oct 2, 2008, 6:54 PM
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Re: [PharmerPhil] Do you sell electronic photos? [In reply to] Can't Post

phil,

i have slowing getting away from giving away the electronic photos, i also use smug mug and have priced $50 low res, $75 4mp, and $ 100.. i think $250 for commercial use.. my prints are pretty reasonably priced and i really try to just make money back for the site and use the site to safely back up my photos. if you want info on the smugmug site, feel free to pm. it is easy to use and i think easy for the customer too.. here is my site if you want to check it out or the prices..

http://pablo.smugmug.com/

paul


PharmerPhil  (D 23899)

Oct 2, 2008, 7:58 PM
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Re: [pilotdave] Do you sell electronic photos? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
1 megapixel, 4 megapixels, and full size....25 cents, $1, $10 (at the moment).

Really? Wow. I sell 8x10s for $20 and I figured electronic images would go for way more as the customer could effectively print any size or quantity they want once they have the file.


pilotdave  (D License)

Oct 2, 2008, 8:18 PM
Post #6 of 33 (2305 views)
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Re: [PharmerPhil] Do you sell electronic photos? [In reply to] Can't Post

They SHOULD go for more than that. But I barely sell any at those prices. My 8x10s are $4. Unless you want it on metallic paper, then it's a whopping $4.50.

I once sold a pretty big print... 16x20 maybe... but made a mistake in my pricing for that size on that type of paper. My profit was 21 cents. He then spent $250 to have it framed. Awesome.

I'm not doing this for money, I don't have years of experience (well, 2 and a half years of stills now) and I don't get invited to photograph events. So I'm just in this for fun. Not a chance of breaking even on my expenses... not when smugmug alone costs me $150/year and I don't even come close to making that much, let alone paying for cameras, lenses, jumps, etc.

I really don't see why an amateur like me should be so worried about digital files "getting out." People want them for their web pages. No idea how many profile pictures on facebook I have shot. I enjoy finding them. I even know of at least one right on this site. I'm honored. Smile

Dave


(This post was edited by pilotdave on Oct 2, 2008, 8:22 PM)


namgrunt

Oct 3, 2008, 10:16 AM
Post #7 of 33 (2156 views)
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Re: [PharmerPhil] Do you sell electronic photos? [In reply to] Can't Post

short answer is ....YES

I sell images burned to CD for $5 per
or print on scene for $10 for an 8x10
I use the best ink and paper I can find

most images are 10 mg each in size

commercial use is another story all together

a wopping fee of $10 to $15 per image is paid by the skydiving mags..I no longer send any to them as it doesn't pay the postage and hassel to burn to disc.


photo credit..I doent need no stinking credit
but cash works great when you have to pay for gasoline,parking,new cameras etc.
I shoot exclusive nikon cameras D2X or D3

lens a mix of SIGMA and NIKON VR lens


vdschoor  (D 27300)

Oct 3, 2008, 10:50 AM
Post #8 of 33 (2147 views)
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Re: [pilotdave] Do you sell electronic photos? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm not doing this for money, I don't have years of experience (well, 2 and a half years of stills now) and I don't get invited to photograph events. So I'm just in this for fun. Not a chance of breaking even on my expenses... not when smugmug alone costs me $150/year and I don't even come close to making that much, let alone paying for cameras, lenses, jumps, etc.

I really don't see why an amateur like me should be so worried about digital files "getting out." People want them for their web pages. No idea how many profile pictures on facebook I have shot. I enjoy finding them. I even know of at least one right on this site. I'm honored. Smile

Dave

Dave.. even though I can see where you are coming from, I'm going to give you some thoughts:

- You are an amateur:
Are you really? You have your own smugmug site to sell photos online, you have professional camera gear, invested a lot of time and money into getting better at photography, at skydiving... and occasionally you get paid for a couple of photos. The other shots, you just take because you like taking photos.. right? Why not get paid for those? It's not like you are putting less effort into those.

You're not doing this for money:
Neither do I, I have a good dayjob, I do this because I love it. Because if I did it for the money, I would have quit a long time ago. Unless you're involved in major productions or custom photoshoots, there is no money in skydiving photography ( I don't call 30-40 bucks for a tandem video "money" .. that's just a tip in my opinion )
The only reason there is no money in skydiving photography is because "everyone can do it" if you have a still camera on your helmet, you're a photographer right? And most don't need the money anyways so they just give it away.
We should all start shooting weddings with that attitude and see what kind of riot we'd unleash amongst the photography industry...

If people want the photos for their webpages, that's totally cool. They should be happy with a 72dpi 4x6 size digital photo then, for a minimal fee of 5 bucks. Check out what stock imagery costs for websites.. most of them start at $1 a photo (iStockPhoto), or a monthly
subscription of $249 for 750 images (Shutterstock)

that's not too much right? Those pics were just taken because the photographer liked them.. and then put them on there for people to use on their websites or whatever..


Really.. I totally understand where you are coming from, but I just want to put things in perspective.. you jump with x pounds of cameras worth 1000s of dollars on your helmet, paying for your jump ($20+ these days) why should you not get paid?
Every jump your potential risk is:

$3500 (camera gear + helmet)
$25 (jump)
$65 (repack in case of reserve ride)

So.. when I walk back to the packing area after a good jump I took a 2100 dollar "business risk" to get you a free photo?

Happy Friday, and happy jumping for everyone this weekend.. be safe, and make your friends look pretty on film!


pilotdave  (D License)

Oct 3, 2008, 11:03 AM
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Re: [vdschoor] Do you sell electronic photos? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't disagree... but I better not discuss the number of 13x19 framed prints I've given away for free. Gotta give the frames with the prints... they're so hard to find. Smile

Yeah, I'm bad at this.

Dave


vdschoor  (D 27300)

Oct 3, 2008, 11:21 AM
Post #10 of 33 (2132 views)
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Re: [pilotdave] Do you sell electronic photos? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I don't disagree... but I better not discuss the number of 13x19 framed prints I've given away for free. Gotta give the frames with the prints... they're so hard to find. Smile

Yeah, I'm bad at this.

Dave

Same here my friend.. I've given many photos away, but those were never "asked for" I would get an awesome shot, and figured: you know.. that person would probably REALLY love to have a print of that.
Hell I've even given some 20x30s away! But what happens when you do this? Your work gets seen, and.. next time they WANT a photo you get asked to shoot it for them..

There's difference between free and free.. some stuff you give away to people, but that is not because they asked for it. It's because you want them to have it..
If they ask for it, they pay for it..


pilotdave  (D License)

Oct 3, 2008, 11:46 AM
Post #11 of 33 (2123 views)
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Re: [vdschoor] Do you sell electronic photos? [In reply to] Can't Post

Yup, that's exactly what I do... I don't tend to just give away prints that people ask for... in fact, if they want a print, i have them order it off my site so I don't have to get involved (the entire reason I put up the site in the first place).

I recently decided to put some of my own pictures on my walls... had never done that for some reason. So I printed and framed a shot that I really liked of another jumper. Then figured he'd like it, so I printed an 8.5x11 for him. Then after a few days I decided it was silly to have his picture on my wall so I took it down and gave him both of them.

Dave


vdschoor  (D 27300)

Oct 3, 2008, 11:50 AM
Post #12 of 33 (2119 views)
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Re: [pilotdave] Do you sell electronic photos? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Yup, that's exactly what I do... I don't tend to just give away prints that people ask for... in fact, if they want a print, i have them order it off my site so I don't have to get involved (the entire reason I put up the site in the first place).

I recently decided to put some of my own pictures on my walls... had never done that for some reason. So I printed and framed a shot that I really liked of another jumper. Then figured he'd like it, so I printed an 8.5x11 for him. Then after a few days I decided it was silly to have his picture on my wall so I took it down and gave him both of them.

Dave

I've done the same, in fact my first ever published photo is still on my wall.. I don't care if it has someone else in it, I'm proud of that shot! What I call that kind of "giving away shots" is customer building, marketing.. nothing wrong with that..

I do the same when people ask for photos, go ahead and order them from my site. Even for coach jumps, if I bring the whole setup, they get a dub of the video, I don't care about that.. the photos, they can buy from me..


Laszloimage  (D 22468)

Oct 3, 2008, 12:17 PM
Post #13 of 33 (2099 views)
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Re: [vdschoor] Do you sell electronic photos? [In reply to] Can't Post

100% agree with you


(This post was edited by Laszloimage on Oct 3, 2008, 1:12 PM)


jtval  (D 26340)

Oct 3, 2008, 7:32 PM
Post #14 of 33 (2044 views)
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Re: [Laszloimage] Do you sell electronic photos? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll just say "I echo your reply."

I LOVE getting a good shot.
I like to have people see that shot. I have given many shots away but Most people at My (used to e home) DZ, Mesquite never balked at offering up a few bucks.

I got a decent shot of a 15 way and when one person asked "how much for a print?"
I replied "$10"

I sold about 7 photos. That was COOL.
we were all happy.
(especially since I jumped 3 timed that day alone hoping they would finally build the thing. LOL)

I ALMOST borke even that day.Laugh


Zee  (D 18608)

Oct 4, 2008, 8:35 PM
Post #15 of 33 (1954 views)
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Re: [PharmerPhil] Do you sell electronic photos? [In reply to] Can't Post

I sell both prints and downloads from my site.

In addition to skydiving (which I can't do much where I live at the moment) I shoot quite a bit of motorcycle racing and track days as well. For m/c racing, I usually charge between $10-$15/download because that's pretty much all the market will bare.

The track stuff I do both for fun and money but, nobody on a racer's budget is going to drop $100 for a digital picture. I usually make the guys a CD (non-commercial license) with all the shots of them from one day for about $75-$100 and that works out pretty well for both of us.

I charge more for my skydiving stuff but, I don't go overboard with the pricing for every day stuff though.


BMFin

Oct 5, 2008, 11:24 AM
Post #16 of 33 (1885 views)
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Re: [sinjin] Do you sell electronic photos? [In reply to] Can't Post

I just took a brief look at the smugmug site. The idea seems intresting.

What I couldnt find though was how you buy Files only. Personally I woudnt want prints nearly as much as I would want files. (I guess this apllies with a lot of other people also) When clicking "buy this photo" at smugmug, I could only choose prints in the list.


Zee  (D 18608)

Oct 5, 2008, 1:27 PM
Post #17 of 33 (1876 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Do you sell electronic photos? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I just took a brief look at the smugmug site. The idea seems intresting.

What I couldnt find though was how you buy Files only. Personally I woudnt want prints nearly as much as I would want files. (I guess this apllies with a lot of other people also) When clicking "buy this photo" at smugmug, I could only choose prints in the list.

It depends how it's set up. You can set it up so that the customer can pay for immediate downloads if you like.

If you click on "Buy this photo" there will be an option for "Downloads" if the owner has set up that feature. Smugmug is a pretty cool site.


BMFin

Oct 5, 2008, 2:45 PM
Post #18 of 33 (1865 views)
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Re: [Zee] Do you sell electronic photos? [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok. Now that I looked at it again, I noticed that there is that tab you may click to open the "downloads" section. Maby a bit hidden IMO (or maby Im just a bit retardTongue ) Personally (if possible) I would modify it as the first Tab which would open as a default.

Maby I will open one of these also. Tandem photos I still prefer selling the "old way" just handing out the files on a CD. (its much less work that way) But for those who decide not to have the stills I could upload the pics on the site and maby get a few bucks now and then when someone changes their mind afterwards. I just include the web address on the video DVD and they have no trouble finding their pics if they need to..

I see you guys havent done this. Have you thought about it ? You think this might be an idea ?


(This post was edited by BMFin on Oct 5, 2008, 2:53 PM)


Zee  (D 18608)

Oct 5, 2008, 3:39 PM
Post #19 of 33 (1852 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Do you sell electronic photos? [In reply to] Can't Post

When I started shooting tandem video in 2000, we just handed a roll of film to the customer. Once I switched to digital, I'd hand them a CD with about 25 shots from the jump on it.

I mainly jump for fun at the moment but I might get back in to shooting tandems next summer. If I do, I'll probably just set it up so they can view the pictures from their jump online. It all depends how the DZ has their photo concession set up....


TROGDOR  (B License)

Oct 5, 2008, 3:54 PM
Post #20 of 33 (1845 views)
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Re: [namgrunt] Do you sell electronic photos? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
a wopping fee of $10 to $15 per image is paid by the skydiving mags..I no longer send any to them as it doesn't pay the postage and hassel to burn to disc.

is that seriously all they pay?


sinjin  (A 210530)

Oct 5, 2008, 4:56 PM
Post #21 of 33 (1834 views)
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Re: [TROGDOR] Do you sell electronic photos? [In reply to] Can't Post

yes, 10-15 . except for the cover or middle

but i send them in online sometimes,, so i dont have to burn or spend postage. i have only sent in to parachustist though,, not sure if the others accept online submissions. you can find the info on the uspa site.


pilotdave  (D License)

Oct 5, 2008, 4:59 PM
Post #22 of 33 (1834 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Do you sell electronic photos? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Personally (if possible) I would modify it as the first Tab which would open as a default.

Not possible, unfortunately. Smugmug gives a fair amount of "customization" control over the site, but none in the shopping cart. You're right though, most people want downloads.

Quote:
But for those who decide not to have the stills I could upload the pics on the site and maby get a few bucks now and then when someone changes their mind afterwards.

I don't do a lot of tandem videos (none since April... yay!), but I've tried that. I hand out business cards to the students with the website and send another card with the DVD. Never sold a single pic to a tandem student. Then again, I've only done a few that bought just video and not stills (I always shoot stills anyway), so most have all the pics anyway.

Dave


(This post was edited by pilotdave on Oct 5, 2008, 5:01 PM)


TROGDOR  (B License)

Oct 5, 2008, 6:54 PM
Post #23 of 33 (1806 views)
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Re: [sinjin] Do you sell electronic photos? [In reply to] Can't Post

that isn't even enough to buy the case of beer!!


ChangoLanzao  (D License)

Dec 5, 2008, 9:12 PM
Post #24 of 33 (1547 views)
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Re: [vdschoor] Do you sell electronic photos? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

If people want the photos for their webpages, that's totally cool. They should be happy with a 72dpi 4x6 size digital photo then, for a minimal fee of 5 bucks. Check out what stock imagery costs for websites.. most of them start at $1 a photo (iStockPhoto), or a monthly
subscription of $249 for 750 images (Shutterstock)

Just found this thread Wink

I've given up trying to sell photo prints to jumpers. Most of them want them for nothin' anyway Crazy. It might be totally different if I were at a large DZ, but here in Flatville, IL, I'm basically just the DZ documentarian. When I do tandem vidi's I always shoot stills, but with the assumption that they are just for my "private collection" and , no they can't buy a "stills-only" package. It's all about the video.

I don't give out copies to anyone of my original hi-res digital images. The tandems get whatever comes out on their DVD in the form of a slide show with 640x480 jpegs. If they want prints, they can go to my web site and order them. I have sold pitifully few Tongue. When asked about it, I tell them that the hi-res stills can be theirs for $50 each OR they can have a CD (or download) copies of all the hi-res versions of stills from their jump if they sign a model release.

The model release allows me to sell the photos as microstock. Although I certainly haven't made a killing on it, iStockPhoto is working out pretty well so far. Since I started selling microstock, I have gotten enough in royalties to at least pay for my camera body (woohoo! Tongue). The main advantage for me of selling on iStockPhoto, Dreamstime, and Fotolia is that I've learned a tremendous amount about working in the "lab" on the photos and how to take pictures that are technically good enough to be useful to designers and they print at very high quality. The feedback I get when submissions are rejected is quite valuable too Sly.

Anyway, I do it for the art, not the money, but I don't give away the hi-res images without something in return. I have no problem, like pilotdave, posting low-res copies on FaceBook for people to use in their profiles. If they want a 14x20 print, however, that's a whole different story Wink. Once the hi-res version is out, it means that Walgreens, WalMart, Shutterfly, or any number of middle-men can make big bucks selling prints of my work to any number of people.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Dec 5, 2008, 10:26 PM
Post #25 of 33 (1528 views)
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Re: [PharmerPhil] Do you sell electronic photos? [In reply to] Can't Post

no collusion laws broken, and if enough folks are interested, I'll put together a brief article on photo pricing, current market values, etc based on the industry rags and distribution channel buys?
Selling electronic photos with a license is cool, if you're cautious and know how to manage it.


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