Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
When to buy gear (was - WI fatality)

 


eyahoo  (C License)

Sep 22, 2008, 12:41 PM
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When to buy gear (was - WI fatality) Can't Post

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In reply to:

Is there a culture among the old timers of resisting AADs?
Not with this old timer.Unsure

Condolences to all.

Hereís my spin and advice on the subject of old timers:

Kids: Buy your toys NOW while you are young and have no commitments.

When you get married (and thatís a dumb idea IMHO, but that is another subject) you wonít have the money to buy the stuff you really want unless you are Bill Gates. Hence the Cypres will always be one of those items on your Christmas list that never gets delivered.

Then, if god forbid, you get divorced, you are really screwed! Alimony! Child Support! Extraordinary Expenses.(GOD I FRICKIN HATE SUMMER CAMP!!!)

You will be so poor its hard to justify 2 loads a month, never mind thinking about a AAD.

Yes, I am an old timer. Yes, I got screwed. And yes, I am poor. Good thing I got all my gear before I got married!. So like the poster above mentions, given a choice, I choose to skydive without an AAD because I cant afford one. I donít like it one bit but what choice do I have? Iím not going to give up skydiving because of it. I know the risk I run but thatís what makes this sport great- I know the risks and I take the necessary precautions to minimize them.


(This post was edited by billvon on Sep 22, 2008, 1:34 PM)


brianfry713  (D 28665)

Sep 22, 2008, 1:25 PM
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Re: [eyahoo] Fatality - Sky Knights, Wi - 20 Sept 2008 [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes new AADs are expensive unless you can somehow get a good deal on them. Yes good value used AADs are hard to come by and in high demand, but keep looking and asking around. I recently bought a 10 year old Cypres with the 8 year done and a repack cycle left on the battery for $200. A lot of people spend more than that on a day of jumping or tunnel flying. You don't have to give up skydiving to afford an AAD, just work more, pack a bunch of rigs, or give up something else. A brand new Cypres 2 is not the only AAD out there, also consider the Vigil, Argus, and Astra. Of course it's your money and your life so it's your choice.


LloydDobbler  (D 30655)

Sep 22, 2008, 1:28 PM
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Re: [eyahoo] Fatality - Sky Knights, Wi - 20 Sept 2008 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I know the risk I run but thatís what makes this sport great- I know the risks and I take the necessary precautions to minimize them.

(Side note - I just re-read my post, and thought it might read like I'm doing some newbie scolding. That's not my intent at all. This isn't directed at you, eyahoo - I'm agreeing with you 100%.)

In this instance, if it's truly the case that there was a medical issue, it seems there's not a lot to argue about - the only thing that might have broken the chain of events was an AAD.

And you make a good point - using an AAD does depend on personal circumstances, to a large extent. But like most everything in skydiving, it's ultimately your choice. You jump without one, you take your chances. You jump with one, you take your chances as well.

But ultimately, it's your choice as to which is more important, and you may have to own the outcome.

Or, in the way a good friend of mine put it, "If I was to go in from a no pull with $1300 in the bank somewhere, that would really piss me off wherever I wind up in the afterlife." Personally, I jumped without one for ~150 jumps until I had that money in the bank, then went and bought one.

Condolences to the family & friends. With as many old-timers as I've jumped with, I've heard my share of stories and can totally understand how age-old prejudices against AOD's continue on today. Not sure if that was the issue here, but if it was, not sure that there's anything that can be done about it...save to learn from this incident (just like many did when Al Frisby was saved by his Cypres).


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
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Sep 22, 2008, 1:37 PM
Post #4 of 13 (1892 views)
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Re: [eyahoo] When to buy gear (was - WI fatality) [In reply to] Can't Post

>Kids: Buy your toys NOW while you are young and have no commitments.

I'd suggest the opposite as a general rule.

Kids - stay in college, get a job, jump on the weekends. Make money so you can afford to jump enough to stay current and to get safe gear. Putting yourself into debt to the extent that you can't afford good gear and/or can't afford to stay current isn't a great solution.


zoobrothertom  (D 9397)

Sep 23, 2008, 1:27 AM
Post #5 of 13 (1679 views)
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Re: [billvon] When to buy gear (was - WI fatality) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
>Kids: Buy your toys NOW while you are young and have no commitments.

I'd suggest the opposite as a general rule.

Kids - stay in college, get a job, jump on the weekends. Make money so you can afford to jump enough to stay current and to get safe gear. Putting yourself into debt to the extent that you can't afford good gear and/or can't afford to stay current isn't a great solution.

or maybe somewhere in the middle - Kids: get an education, job and save money. Then buy your toys before you get married.Wink


airtwardo  (D License)

Sep 23, 2008, 3:39 AM
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Re: [eyahoo] When to buy gear (was - WI fatality) [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, I am an old timer. Yes, I got screwed. And yes, I am poor. Good thing I got all my gear before I got married!. So like the poster above mentions, given a choice, I choose to skydive without an AAD because I cant afford one. I donít like it one bit but what choice do I have? Iím not going to give up skydiving because of it. I know the risk I run but thatís what makes this sport great- I know the risks and I take the necessary precautions to minimize them.


In reply to:

Another old school old timer here...

No didn't get screwed, not poor I guess, but then again even when I had nothing I never thought I was, and always seemed to be able to afford the things I thought were 'necessary'.

Yet still...I don't use an AOD/AAD and never have had one other than on Tandems, and I haven't done any of those in ten years.

Fatalities such as the one that sparked this branched off thread do give me pause to analyse my choice.

Hell...I've got enough cash on me right now to buy one but for some reason I guess I just don't feel it's a 'necessary' piece of skydiving equipment for me and the type of jumping I do.

I am slowly moving into the 21st century, retired the frap hat I bought from Tony 25 years ago and got a fancy fiber anti melon musher...open face of course!Sly

Who knows, maybe one of these days I'll go ahead and bite the bullet so to speak...it's just hard to to put the training wheels back on after having ridden this far without 'em. Wink


kkeenan  (D 22164)

Sep 23, 2008, 7:59 AM
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Re: [airtwardo] When to buy gear (was - WI fatality) [In reply to] Can't Post

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...it's just hard to to put the training wheels back on after having ridden this far without 'em. Wink

Even Chuck Yeager flew with an ejection seat. Wink


airtwardo  (D License)

Sep 23, 2008, 9:42 AM
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Re: [kkeenan] When to buy gear (was - WI fatality) [In reply to] Can't Post

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...it's just hard to to put the training wheels back on after having ridden this far without 'em. Wink

Even Chuck Yeager flew with an ejection seat. Wink


Yeah...and it was the pyrotechnic charge in it that almost killed him in the X-15 flat spin egress. SlyWink



Then again, maybe an AAD would have helped Joe Svec survive the re-enactment. Unimpressed


(This post was edited by airtwardo on Sep 23, 2008, 9:46 AM)


kkeenan  (D 22164)

Sep 23, 2008, 10:28 AM
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Re: [airtwardo] When to buy gear (was - WI fatality) [In reply to] Can't Post

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Yeah...and it was the pyrotechnic charge in it that almost killed him in the X-15 flat spin egress. SlyWink

Then again, maybe an AAD would have helped Joe Svec survive the re-enactment. Unimpressed

Not to split hairs, but it was an NF-104A, the rocket-augmented F-104. That ejection was pretty gnarly, but it still beat the alternative.

And, yes, Joe Svec would have been way better off with an AAD.

I always thought that was the wierdest thing...one guy survives the most dangerous incident and another guy dies doing a "safe" re-enactment of it.Crazy

So...will you be getting that AAD now ?

Kevin K.


pchapman  (D 1014)

Sep 23, 2008, 10:52 AM
Post #10 of 13 (1476 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] When to buy gear (was - WI fatality) [In reply to] Can't Post

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Even Chuck Yeager flew with an ejection seat. Wink

Not in the original Bell X-1 which made him famous.


airtwardo  (D License)

Sep 23, 2008, 11:24 AM
Post #11 of 13 (1457 views)
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Re: [kkeenan] When to buy gear (was - WI fatality) [In reply to] Can't Post

So...will you be getting that AAD now ?

In reply to:

Maybe one of these days....AngelicWink


airtwardo  (D License)

Sep 23, 2008, 11:26 AM
Post #12 of 13 (1453 views)
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Re: [pchapman] When to buy gear (was - WI fatality) [In reply to] Can't Post

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Even Chuck Yeager flew with an ejection seat. Wink

Not in the original Bell X-1 which made him famous.

Nor in any of the Boeing crowd killers that he was the test pilot on.


squarecanopy  (B 29646)

Sep 23, 2008, 4:32 PM
Post #13 of 13 (1367 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] When to buy gear (was - WI fatality) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Even Chuck Yeager flew with an ejection seat. Wink

Not in the original Bell X-1 which made him famous.

Nor in any of the Boeing crowd killers that he was the test pilot on.

Pardon my ignorance-I am not aware that Yeager ever flew for Boeing. Please expand on this! Or PM me if you don't want to hijack this thread. Thanks!


(This post was edited by squarecanopy on Sep 23, 2008, 4:34 PM)



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