Forums: Community: Skydivers with Disabilities:
Is there an accuracy canopy compatible with an Odyssey container?

 


PROGRESSIVE  (D 8150)

Sep 1, 2008, 9:35 PM
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Is there an accuracy canopy compatible with an Odyssey container? Can't Post

I was involved in a nasty hang gliding accident last summer that left me paralyzed below my knees.

When I was jumping before my accident, I was using my Javelin Odyssey with a PD 160 reserve and a Sabre 2-170. Often times my Sabre required me to run out on my landings, but with my paralysis this is no longer an option. I can walk, barely, but its more of a hobble. To help accomodate my disability, I'm thinking of getting an accuracy type canopy.

Is there a canopy out there that would work with my current container? I need a canopy that doesn't require me to run out my landings. I need to have consistent standup landings with very little forward speed.

I would still continue to jump my current reserve, but I would keep in mind that I would just do a PLF if I have a reserve ride.

Suggestions?

Thanks!

Pete

PS: When I was living in a nursing home for several weeks healing after my accident, I swore I'd never hang glide, or skydive again...I have since changed my mind. No one gets out of this world alive, so you might as well have fun!


(This post was edited by PROGRESSIVE on Sep 1, 2008, 10:02 PM)


Gawain  (D 29213)

Sep 2, 2008, 5:33 AM
Post #2 of 18 (1583 views)
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Re: [PROGRESSIVE] Is there an accuracy canopy compatible with an Odyssey container? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know if that is an option you'll ultimately want to pursue, but you mileage may vary...

My situation is not the same as yours, my landings are essentially with one leg and under demo canopies (designed to sink and land accurately), if find the landings to be harder, both in impact, and movement.

Having said that, most of these canopies are designed to fly in their intended manner at light wing-loading, <0.7 +/-. So, if you're looking for something like that, your container is going to be an issue.

The other factor about them, is the 0-3cfm F-111-type fabric. Combined with their light loaded, 7-cell, "bigness"...they're good for demos and accuracy, but I don't see them as a "fun" sport canopy.

You might look into a 7-cell ZP, like the Aerodyne Triathlon, or PD's Spectre. A Triathlon 175 or 190 may be the ticket, steep brakes, less aggressive flight characteristics.

When I fly more sport oriented canopies, if the winds aren't blowing, a gentle slide is better than a pounding-into-the-ground...Wink


DrewEckhardt  (D 28461)

Sep 2, 2008, 12:15 PM
Post #3 of 18 (1557 views)
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Re: [PROGRESSIVE] Is there an accuracy canopy compatible with an Odyssey container? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I was involved in a nasty hang gliding accident last summer that left me paralyzed below my knees.

When I was jumping before my accident, I was using my Javelin Odyssey with a PD 160 reserve and a Sabre 2-170. Often times my Sabre required me to run out on my landings, but with my paralysis this is no longer an option. I can walk, barely, but its more of a hobble. To help accomodate my disability, I'm thinking of getting an accuracy type canopy.

If you do a good job with energy management you can stop most swoopy canopies (example - Samurai 105, 175 pounds exit weight, 8000 foot density altitude) in a couple of steps. You just have to finish your swoop low (your feet would be below ground level) and finish with more sudden toggle input with the pitched canopy acting as an airbrake and lifting you back up to ground level.

Obviously, most skydivers do not make optimal landings and how fast you're going when things aren't optimal gets worse with smaller canopies.

Accuracy canopies work land the way they do largely because of wingloading, with dropping to .65 pounds/square foot from .8 providing a nicer sink. You'd probably want something in the 280+ square foot range. While you can literally bring a big F111 seven cell straight down on soft ground (like a pea gravel pit) and get stand-up landings your vertical speed would be too high if you did so under the same canopy at contemporary wing loadings.


(This post was edited by DrewEckhardt on Sep 2, 2008, 2:54 PM)


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Sep 2, 2008, 2:42 PM
Post #4 of 18 (1548 views)
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Re: [PROGRESSIVE] Is there an accuracy canopy compatible with an Odyssey container? [In reply to] Can't Post

A container that would hold a 160/170 combo will not hold an accuracy canopy, you will need to look at getting another container to hold the canopies.


freakflyer9999  (D 99999)

Sep 2, 2008, 5:46 PM
Post #5 of 18 (1529 views)
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Re: [PROGRESSIVE] Is there an accuracy canopy compatible with an Odyssey container? [In reply to] Can't Post

You might want to chat with Dana Bowman.

Dana jumps with two artificial legs. Not exactly the same as your situation, but he also isn't able to run out landings. I've assisted with one of his demos where he sank his canopy into a fenced area less than 20 ft square. I think that he told me that he sometimes slides in his landings. You might consider that as an option too.

His email and phone info is on the contact page of his web site.


(This post was edited by freakflyer9999 on Sep 2, 2008, 6:24 PM)


PROGRESSIVE  (D 8150)

Sep 2, 2008, 10:14 PM
Post #6 of 18 (1517 views)
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Re: [freakflyer9999] Is there an accuracy canopy compatible with an Odyssey container? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the Dana link. I've heard about this guy for sometime, but never heard his story. Wow!

My legs can't perform as well has his. Reading the responses, I do think that I would have to rebuild my skydiving rig to accomodate a much larger main parachute, unfortunately.

For sale, one slightly used rig. I'll have to post some pictures of my gear and place it in the classifieds here at DZ.COM

Thx!

Pete


Premier wmw999  (D 6296)

Sep 3, 2008, 5:09 AM
Post #7 of 18 (1509 views)
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Re: [PROGRESSIVE] Is there an accuracy canopy compatible with an Odyssey container? [In reply to] Can't Post

I had an acquaintance in the 70's who had one very bad leg from polio. He PLF'd every single landing, even on his square (they were all big in those days). He said he'd rather KNOW that he'll get up instead of THINKING he could stand up.

Bigger container, equal-sized reserve. I love those tippy-toe landings.

Wendy W.


skydivejeff  (D 27915)

Sep 4, 2008, 4:08 PM
Post #8 of 18 (1462 views)
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Re: [PROGRESSIVE] Is there an accuracy canopy compatible with an Odyssey container? [In reply to] Can't Post

First let me say that I think it is completely awesome that you want to continue in the sport after your terrible accident! 2nd, I am not handicap (and I hate to use that word BTW) BUT I do have a lot of jumps on an accuracy canopy and my 2 cents are that I dont reccommend that you go to one. The accuracy canopy is designed to land by stopping ALL FORWARD SPEED and coming striaght down. Reading your story of your injury, I think you could do some serious damage by trying this. If one does have even a little forwrd speed on landing with an accuracy type parachute, it hurts BAD because of the trim settings...it is just not possible to have a safe landing on accuracy unless your straight down in a transition. I would recommend that you stay with your current setup and simply fly it at 1/4 to half brakes with a long, high final approach. It sounds like you are able to lift your legs from the waist, so you can always slide in on your butt for a safe, soft landing.
Whatever you choose, be safe. I truely think you are awesome for continuing the sport even though we have never (or may never) meet!
BS!~
Jeff


PROGRESSIVE  (D 8150)

Sep 4, 2008, 9:14 PM
Post #9 of 18 (1448 views)
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Re: [skydivejeff] Is there an accuracy canopy compatible with an Odyssey container? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the advice! Yep, I have more metal in me than a damn hardware store. A lot of it in my pelvis.

I am really tempted to strap on my rig and go for a jump just to see what it would be like. I did go hang gliding one time since my accident about 2 months ago. I put wheels on the base tube and basically made a trough in the landing zone with my body. I wanted to plant some vegetables in my newly made trough, but it was too late in the season.

But seriously, I have never been soooo bored since my rig has been put away...Its given Lortab new meaning.

Pete


(This post was edited by PROGRESSIVE on Sep 4, 2008, 9:17 PM)


Gawain  (D 29213)

Sep 5, 2008, 6:36 AM
Post #10 of 18 (1440 views)
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Re: [PROGRESSIVE] Is there an accuracy canopy compatible with an Odyssey container? [In reply to] Can't Post

As Jeff was saying, the accuracy canopies aren't terribly forgiving if you have two useful legs. Wink Even with my heavy-duty prosthetic, the landings are tough as hell.

If super forward speed is a concern under the sport wings, a 7 cell may offer some relief as well.


inextremis  (D 6498)

Sep 6, 2008, 5:48 PM
Post #11 of 18 (1408 views)
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Re: [Gawain] Is there an accuracy canopy compatible with an Odyssey container? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think a Spectre 190 would fit in your current rig, and you can stop most if not all of your forward speed with that canopy at your wing loading if you flare high to plane off airspeed and then use a full stroke at the bottom end--on my 170, to get that landing I feel like I'm pulling the tail down behind me. If you look closely in the attached photo, the brakes are on so hard that the rear risers are actually developing a little slack in them. You may have to shorten the toggles just a bit from factory setting--not much, maybe two inches. It will of course be tougher to pull off no-step stand ups on no-wind days. Lot of Spectre 190s around as rentals, you could try before you buy.


(This post was edited by inextremis on Sep 6, 2008, 5:50 PM)
Attachments: 1000thJumpLanding.jpg (45.9 KB)


PROGRESSIVE  (D 8150)

Sep 6, 2008, 10:35 PM
Post #12 of 18 (1397 views)
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Re: [inextremis] Is there an accuracy canopy compatible with an Odyssey container? [In reply to] Can't Post

It sounds more like I need a "student" type canopy, rather than an accuracy type canopy. Back in the 80's we were using Mantas, from Paraflight? for students. Verfy soft landings. Now adays there are even better, more efficient student canopys.

So, I would replace my Sabre 2 170, and get a seven cell, lifty canopy, with more square footage.

Pete


mx757  (C License)

Sep 6, 2008, 11:54 PM
Post #13 of 18 (1394 views)
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Re: [PROGRESSIVE] Is there an accuracy canopy compatible with an Odyssey container? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It sounds more like I need a "student" type canopy, rather than an accuracy type canopy. Back in the 80's we were using Mantas, from Paraflight? for students. Verfy soft landings. Now adays there are even better, more efficient student canopys.

So, I would replace my Sabre 2 170, and get a seven cell, lifty canopy, with more square footage.

Pete

Manta's were from Glide Path.. which last I heard is now "flight international"


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Sep 8, 2008, 6:18 AM
Post #14 of 18 (1367 views)
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Re: [mx757] Is there an accuracy canopy compatible with an Odyssey container? [In reply to] Can't Post

Its Flight Concepts International.

Ask for demos of some of the canopies like the Navigator and other docile canopies from the manufactors.


inextremis  (D 6498)

Sep 9, 2008, 5:16 PM
Post #15 of 18 (1346 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Is there an accuracy canopy compatible with an Odyssey container? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know--I have some experience with students on both Mantas and Navigators. They're great parachutes, especially the latter, but they're designed not to stall, and so almost always have a little forward movement, as opposed to a large sized demo canopy (like a Star Trac II), which can be stopped (and therefore stalled). Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but if I didn't want to take any steps after a soft, on target landing, I'd jump a demo canopy (also Flight Concepts International) at a less than 1:1 wing loading. Just a thought.


skydivejeff  (D 27915)

Sep 10, 2008, 2:19 PM
Post #16 of 18 (1331 views)
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Re: [inextremis] Is there an accuracy canopy compatible with an Odyssey container? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
. as opposed to a large sized demo canopy (like a Star Trac II), which can be stopped (and therefore stalled). Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but if I didn't want to take any steps after a soft, on target landing, I'd jump a demo canopy (also Flight Concepts International) at a less than 1:1 wing loading. Just a thought.

This is true, BUT Star Trac landings arent always soft and in order to effectively land them without any forward speed, you must transition at 5-10 feet off the ground. I would definately recommend a navigator or a spectre. I think it would be easier and more safe for you to land with a little slide on the butt instead of trying to land with no forward airspeed. Just my $.02


tbrown  (D 6533)

Nov 27, 2008, 10:01 AM
Post #17 of 18 (1075 views)
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Re: [inextremis] Is there an accuracy canopy compatible with an Odyssey container? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I think a Spectre 190 would fit in your current rig, and you can stop most if not all of your forward speed with that canopy at your wing loading if you flare high to plane off airspeed and then use a full stroke at the bottom end--on my 170, to get that landing I feel like I'm pulling the tail down behind me. If you look closely in the attached photo, the brakes are on so hard that the rear risers are actually developing a little slack in them. You may have to shorten the toggles just a bit from factory setting--not much, maybe two inches. It will of course be tougher to pull off no-step stand ups on no-wind days. Lot of Spectre 190s around as rentals, you could try before you buy.

What about PD's new Storm canopy ? My friends who have demoed Storms tell me the flare is absolutely fantastic. It's a 7 cell, so shouldn't have too flat a glide, should fit into your container, and would still be a fun canopy to fly. It's worth considering.


Premier rwieder  (C 32349)

Nov 27, 2008, 2:36 PM
Post #18 of 18 (1063 views)
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Re: [PROGRESSIVE] Is there an accuracy canopy compatible with an Odyssey container? [In reply to] Can't Post

Try a Triathlon 7 cell, or an equivilent. Fly it at a 1:1 wing load. It's like stepping off an escalater.



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