Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Would you have chopped this?

 


FallinWoman  (C 32269)

Aug 13, 2001, 3:18 PM
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Would you have chopped this? Can't Post

Saturday I watched a jumper leave the C-182, pull quickly, canopy open. So far so good.
Then I noticed that he seemed to be turning quite a bit. He did a canopy control check, and apparently decided to keep the canopy. To fly straight, he had to have one toggle well below his shoulder and the other all the way up.
Getting back to the landing area was fine, but I was terrified of his flare, there is no way it was gonna be even!!!

He landed, ok, just a bit of a tumble, everything fine.

Would you keep a canopy that you had to have one toggle half way down to fly straight?

Blue skies (and straight-flying canopies)
Anne



FallinWoman  (C 32269)

Aug 13, 2001, 3:20 PM
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Re: Would you have chopped this? [In reply to] Can't Post

If it matters, the slider was caught halfway up in some tension knots. That is why it wasn't flying straight.



skymedic  (C 33561)

Aug 13, 2001, 3:23 PM
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anything below my shoulder on the control and I am out of there...but then again thats me and I am paranoid of breaking myself....

Marc
Because I fly, I envy no man on earth


SkydiveMonkey  (B 102345)

Aug 13, 2001, 3:27 PM
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If the toggle needs to be below the top of my shoulder, it's to the ''Oh S***'' pad and the ''Try Again'' handle.

Don't pull low, unless you are


FallinWoman  (C 32269)

Aug 13, 2001, 3:30 PM
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i am sure you can tell...I would have chopped for damn sure. I don't land well under a perfect canopy. I cannot imagine landing something crooked!!

Thankfully everything turned out ok



freeflir29  (D 10000000)

Aug 13, 2001, 3:59 PM
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Depends on the canopy I guess. I would lean toward reserve ride on almost any canopy and especially on mine. The sweet spot in my brakes is about shoulder height. If it's a big canopy a little ass surfing on the landing and you will walk away fine on something loaded it can be really bad news. If I was gonna keep it I would have landed with the risers. It gives you more control over the canopy.

"I used to know a girl...She had two pirced nipples and a black tattoo"-Everclear

Clay


DZBone  (D 14358)

Aug 13, 2001, 5:08 PM
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Hard to say not being the one with his ass in the sling, but I think I would have rode it in. The key factors would be a) can I control it now and thought the flight and b) do I expect anything to change for the worse, given the current conditions. Sounds like it was controllable, and unlikely to get worse.

Carl



spectre230
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Aug 13, 2001, 5:24 PM
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DZBone  (D 14358)

Aug 13, 2001, 5:33 PM
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Re: Would you have chopped this? [In reply to] Can't Post

OK, this is a really dumb question, but what exactly is a "tension knot"? I have a picture of half-hitch kind of a thing, but I really would like to know for sure.



Premier skybytch  (D License)

Aug 13, 2001, 6:36 PM
Post #10 of 22 (1973 views)
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Re: Would you have chopped this? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If I was gonna keep it I would have landed with the risers. It gives you more control over the canopy.
In a situation like that, as soon as you let up on the toggle the canopy is going to start turning again. Seems to me it would be kinda hard to flare with rear risers while holding one toggle below shoulder level... and I wouldn't be letting up on that toggle anywhere near the ground!

Personally, I'd have chopped it. Like Fallin said, I don't land so good under a perfect canopy! And spectre made a good point; things can go to shit fast when you're already working hard just to keep the canopy flying straight. You have a better overall chance of walking away from the landing if you choose to use your reserve.

pull and flare,
lisa
----
I am a nobody.
Nobody's perfect.
Therefore, I am perfect!


Viking  (B 30397)

Aug 14, 2001, 1:28 AM
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Re: Would you have chopped this? [In reply to] Can't Post

my training would take over. Shape, Float, Spin in this case its spins when i don't want it to so its gotta go and i have to go to the store to get first reserve ride beer and a bottle of somthing nice for the rigger. That shit they told me in ground school really did stick how about that!!! Smile

Remember when Sex was safe and skydiving was Dangerous?


paddyFrenchman  (D 447)

Aug 14, 2001, 4:39 AM
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Chop Chop...

If it can't fly straight get rid of it... Viking makes a good point. I remeber my training as well and I was told that if you have a problem under the canopy and you don't do anything about it, it WILL NOT get better. It's gonna get worst.
I would have chopped it...

Reserves do work...
Paddy.



wildblue  (D 26027)

Aug 14, 2001, 6:44 AM
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Re: Would you have chopped this? [In reply to] Can't Post

the fact the it didn't fly straight without help wouldn't bother me, the fact that the slider is half-way up the lines would.



Iflyme  (B 4421)

Aug 14, 2001, 10:44 AM
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I think I would go to emergency procedures... chop/ka-ching



FallingMarc  (B 25542)

Aug 14, 2001, 1:22 PM
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Re: Would you have chopped this? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
OK, this is a really dumb question, but what exactly is a "tension knot"? I have a picture of half-hitch kind of a thing, but I really would like to know for sure.
In a tension knot, the lines aren't actually "knotted" per se, but became tangled in the process of several lines being pulled taut next to each other. The tension on the lines keeps the knot from clearing itself, even though the lines are all straight.

I'm not sure if there's any way to absolutely prevent this, I think it's in the "shit happens" category...

I don't remember going over tension knots in my FJC. Maybe because for a first timer, it's simpler to identify it as simply another spinning malfunction?

Marc



MarkM  (C 35089)

Aug 14, 2001, 3:26 PM
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Re: Would you have chopped this? [In reply to] Can't Post

A tension knot is a packing error.

Some lines get bunched up a little, form a loop, another line gets threaded into that loop and it ties into a knot.





Aviatrr  (D 27349)

Aug 14, 2001, 6:56 PM
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Re: Would you have chopped this? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Would you keep a canopy that you had to have one toggle half way down to fly straight?
It's hard to say exactly what I would do without being in the situation - but on my canopy, I would've chopped it in a second.. I landed a canopy once where I had to have a toggle slightly below shoulder height(with the other in full flight), and it wasn't fun or pretty - but I didn't have much choice since it was my reserve..

Mike



FallinWoman  (C 32269)

Aug 14, 2001, 9:01 PM
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Re: Would you have chopped this? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think that what scared me even more than the fact that he landed it (albeit safely) was the fact that he seemed so excited and jumped up about landing it. I hoped he would be scared to death that he attempted to land such a sketchy canopy!!!



PhillyKev

Aug 15, 2001, 3:47 AM
Post #19 of 22 (1808 views)
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Re: Would you have chopped this? [In reply to] Can't Post

Two things there would have made me chop. Slider doesn't come more than half way down....I chop. Have to pull toggle below shoulder to fly straight. I chop.

cielos azules y cerveza fra

-Kevin


Tee  (C License)

Aug 15, 2001, 12:54 PM
Post #20 of 22 (1782 views)
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Re: Would you have chopped this? [In reply to] Can't Post

I probably would have chopped it. It also depends on the wingloading of the canopy. When I was on student gear, I was under a 180 Maverick and I reached up to release the brakes and to my surprise, someone stowed the brakes wrong and they ended up tied in knotts. The canopy was in a slow turn to the left. I checked my ability to fly with the rear risers and I could, so I rode out the left turn until I was closer to the ground, hung a bit on the right to get straight again and landed it. If it was a higher wingloading though...it would have been chopped!

Tee



chopchop  (D 25001)

Aug 23, 2001, 8:35 PM
Post #21 of 22 (1711 views)
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Re: Would you have chopped this? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey, maybe i am chop-happy but i like a canopy that is what I expect it to be. Given enough altitude, I say get rid of it.

when in doubt, cut away... live on to jump another day


prost  (D 24959)

Aug 24, 2001, 9:07 AM
Post #22 of 22 (1690 views)
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Re: Would you have chopped this? [In reply to] Can't Post

spectre230 brings up a very good point on this. I have seen tension knots that got worse as they went. Why land a bad canopy when you have another good one? The wing loading is not that important. A big canopy that collapses at 100 feet is still going to send you to the hospital or worse.




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