Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Relative Work:
Diving exits from an Otter

 


Beer  (C 37279)

Jul 31, 2008, 7:00 PM
Post #1 of 21 (3489 views)
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Diving exits from an Otter Can't Post

OK, so I searched but couldn't find what I was looking for.

I'm having an issue with diving out of an Otter (all exits really, I'm used to a 206, but I'm getting better launching chunks).
I seem to do this flip and turn thing when I dive out. I exit towards the tail but instead of diving towards the formation I'm pointing down the line of flight with the formation behind and well below me.

What is the proper way to dive from an Otter?
What am I possibly doing wrong (as if you could tell without video)


mdrejhon  (C 3268)

Jul 31, 2008, 7:31 PM
Post #2 of 21 (3463 views)
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Re: [Beer] Diving exits from an Otter [In reply to] Can't Post

Dive towards the wingtip, never towards the tail. Torso to the relative wind, being ready to go "on the slide". (You can immediately turn once you've caught air your belly).

Imagine a big slide outside a Twin Otter exit going downwards and curving to your left. It's a lot easier to jump onto this slide sideways (i.e. dive towards the wingtis) then turn right. Diving towards the tail, causes you to land on this "slide" incorrectly... Instead, dive out towards wings, then turning 90 degrees to the right immediately after diving towards the wingtip, should point you slightly downwards, in a diving-like position, when you're still "on the slide", and the dive will flatten out as the "slide" flattens out. (relative wind transition from plane forward motion to straight downward motion).

More or less what I've been told over time...
I could, of course, be wrong in some of my wording...

I still have problems doing it at times, especially in a crowded door dive where people are jumping out all at once in a bigway, and bumping each other on exit. Getting better Smile


(This post was edited by mdrejhon on Jul 31, 2008, 7:37 PM)


danielcroft  (D 31103)

Jul 31, 2008, 7:39 PM
Post #3 of 21 (3453 views)
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Re: [mdrejhon] Diving exits from an Otter [In reply to] Can't Post

You turn to the right? I'm confused, I thought you turned left Unimpressed

I'm good at diving exits out of an otter but I hesitate to offer any suggestions because I really don't know.


AMax

Jul 31, 2008, 8:32 PM
Post #4 of 21 (3446 views)
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Re: [danielcroft] Diving exits from an Otter [In reply to] Can't Post

his advice is right on target. i am sure he meant turning left


bodypilot1  (D 16037)

Jul 31, 2008, 9:09 PM
Post #5 of 21 (3424 views)
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Re: [mdrejhon] Diving exits from an Otter [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Dive towards the wingtip, never towards the tail. Torso to the relative wind, being ready to go "on the slide". (You can immediately turn once you've caught air your belly).

Imagine a big slide outside a Twin Otter exit going downwards and curving to your left. It's a lot easier to jump onto this slide sideways (i.e. dive towards the wingtis) then turn right. Diving towards the tail, causes you to land on this "slide" incorrectly... Instead, dive out towards wings, then turning 90 degrees to the right immediately after diving towards the wingtip, should point you slightly downwards, in a diving-like position, when you're still "on the slide", and the dive will flatten out as the "slide" flattens out. (relative wind transition from plane forward motion to straight downward motion).

More or less what I've been told over time...
I could, of course, be wrong in some of my wording...

I still have problems doing it at times, especially in a crowded door dive where people are jumping out all at once in a bigway, and bumping each other on exit. Getting better Smile

There is nothing wrong with diving toward the tail. Depending on where you are exiting in the lineup, diving to the wingtip may be costing you wasted time in getting to the formation. If he is exiting and doing a flip, he needs to dive with his arms straight out in front of him for a second, spot the formation, then adjust body position and arms for a better trajectory to the spot he wants to go to in the sky.


sdctlc  (D 16437)

Jul 31, 2008, 10:22 PM
Post #6 of 21 (3415 views)
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Re: [Beer] Diving exits from an Otter [In reply to] Can't Post

  How you exit will depend some what on your position in the line up. It will also vary depending on if it is a formation load in a trail plane.

In general, mid way back from the door and closer, I find I am more likely to exit chest to wind towards the wingtip with head up but looking over the left shoulder to spot the base. I feel this puts me in a much more Positive position for diving and then approaching relative to the base. "Diving" chest to the wind perpendicular to the door towards the wingtip with a cup or catching of air will slow the forward throw from the airplane some and help close the distance to the base. Looking over the left shoulder gives you a target and you have a positive position to the base on the "hill", read that as most likely above the base which is a good or positive thing. If from the same position you dive, you can end up in a negative position which can leave you low relative to the base. The closer to the door with a hard dive it can be harder to see (spot) the base as you realistically are not that far away. People tend to over amp and dive too hard with out finding the target and they can more easily end up low, again your not that far away.

Now on the other half, the further back in the line up (closer to the Pilot) then you need to be a little more aggressive and dive The aggressiveness is going to be based on how fast the exit line up is going and how far back you are. You will know for sure the base is to the left and down assuming your not in a trail plane. Again if you blindly dive with your head down you can still end up low. You need to get into the dive but have head up and arms out to spot the base. Also you can consider cupping a touch of air to help slow the forward throw from the plane to help close the distance. Again this will help get you in a more positive position to the base relative to the hill. Once you spot it and know where to go you can dive harder.

Close or far from he base on exit, you need to close the distance and know where your going so you can remain in a positive approach position. Hope the drawn out explanation makes some sense.. Crazy

Scott C.


rdesilets  (D 27497)

Aug 1, 2008, 4:44 PM
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Re: [Beer] Diving exits from an Otter [In reply to] Can't Post

When I first started diving from an otter I had a similar problem -- I was always going ass over tea kettle each time.

It turned out that I was diving out with my right foot slightly forward, which was causing me to present my back to the relative wind -- and that's all she wrote.

One person told me to make a concious effort to have my left foot forward (slightly) as I dove out with my arms straight out in front of me looking for the tip of the wing -- this will (for the most part) get your chest into the relative wind instead of your back.

Once you "Feel it" a few times you are all set. Nowadays, I don't even think about it and I can go out with my head in any direction (e.g. looking for the base as one other posted talks about), etc.


(This post was edited by rdesilets on Aug 1, 2008, 4:45 PM)


SCS422  (D 4021)

Jan 21, 2012, 10:57 AM
Post #8 of 21 (2462 views)
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Re: [Beer] Diving exits from an Otter [In reply to] Can't Post

Here's how I used to do it and it worked well for me. Everybody is tight together and I had my hands on the side of the persons containers ahead of me. on exit everybody pushed. I had already envisioned in my mind where the base was going to be relative to my exit position. Immedidately on exit I dropped my left shoulder slightly and put my legs in a V and my arms went out to the side and I swept them back and cupped my hands under the bottom of my containers while I put my legs together and pointed my toes. At the same time I looked for the base and when I had it located I lowered my head and counted off one, two, three depending on how far back I went out. Then raised my head and started the flare to my assignsed spot. Keep in mind that this was for 10 man speed stars and I knew where everybody was going to be so no collisions. YMMV


TheCapt  (C 38102)

Jan 23, 2012, 10:36 AM
Post #9 of 21 (2368 views)
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Re: [Beer] Diving exits from an Otter [In reply to] Can't Post

Always dive with your left foot going out first. Always!


pchapman  (D 1014)

Jan 23, 2012, 11:34 AM
Post #10 of 21 (2357 views)
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Re: [TheCapt] Diving exits from an Otter [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll join this resurrected thread.

Although I have little formal RW training, I go with the ideas like those Mark Rejhon and rdesilets gave -- dive out to the side, rolled slightly to present chest towards line of flight, then turn to dive 'down the hill'.

That may not be the absolute most efficient way, but that's a good way to learn. Like in many sports, you can learn to do things part by part, while later with practice everything seamlessly works together.

Diving outwards, then turning left gets the jumper to clear the doorway (no diving into the bottom left corner and hitting the doorway), and to present to the wind stably. So you lose a second doing it part by part; it's better than rolling or tumbling out the door.

Then as you get the fundamentals working, the exit can become more of a smooth seamless dive out and down, getting faster while still avoiding the door edge or instability.


danornan  (D 11308)

Jan 23, 2012, 5:14 PM
Post #11 of 21 (2314 views)
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Re: [pchapman] Diving exits from an Otter [In reply to] Can't Post

Keep it simple. As you dive out, just present your chest to the prop blast and then gradually turn down to the formation.

Once you get the feel for it, you won't have to do that. You can go out many different ways and use your body as a surf board on the prop blast.


(This post was edited by danornan on Jan 23, 2012, 5:15 PM)


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Jan 23, 2012, 7:37 PM
Post #12 of 21 (2298 views)
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Re: [danornan] Diving exits from an Otter [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Keep it simple. As you dive out, just present your chest to the prop blast

see, I'm done here. at that point, he can be upright, upside down, sideways, feet first out the door.

with practice, all those angles will become useful options

once the concept is clear, it'll be easier for the OP to just leave the door pointed in the direction he wants......

(the relative wind is what's important, ignoring the ground is the tricky bit)


kallend  (D 23151)

Jan 24, 2012, 5:59 PM
Post #13 of 21 (2235 views)
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Re: [TheCapt] Diving exits from an Otter [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Always dive with your left foot going out first. Always!

Really? I think my head usually goes out first on a diving exit.


(This post was edited by kallend on Jan 24, 2012, 6:00 PM)


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Jan 25, 2012, 10:19 AM
Post #14 of 21 (2186 views)
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Re: [kallend] Diving exits from an Otter [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Always dive with your left foot going out first. Always!

Really? I think my head usually goes out first on a diving exit.

On occasion, my hands get out there first for me.Unsure

Matt


ufk22  (D 16168)

Jan 29, 2012, 9:57 AM
Post #15 of 21 (2124 views)
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Re: [TheCapt] Diving exits from an Otter [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Always dive with your left foot going out first. Always!
I mostly jump Cessna's, so I gotta ask.
I was always taught to launch off the left foot-downwind foot (this would be left foot going out last) in order to keep the right shoulder a little high/present to the relative wind when exiting a left-side door.
Has something changed????


danornan  (D 11308)

Jan 30, 2012, 5:24 AM
Post #16 of 21 (2073 views)
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Re: [ufk22] Diving exits from an Otter [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Always dive with your left foot going out first. Always!
I mostly jump Cessna's, so I gotta ask.
I was always taught to launch off the left foot-downwind foot (this would be left foot going out last) in order to keep the right shoulder a little high/present to the relative wind when exiting a left-side door.
Has something changed????


You are making my hair hurt!

I can't imagine really thinking about it that much after the first few jumps.

Just keep it simple and be at one with the wind......


kallend  (D 23151)

Jan 30, 2012, 9:50 AM
Post #17 of 21 (2049 views)
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Re: [danornan] Diving exits from an Otter [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Always dive with your left foot going out first. Always!
I mostly jump Cessna's, so I gotta ask.
I was always taught to launch off the left foot-downwind foot (this would be left foot going out last) in order to keep the right shoulder a little high/present to the relative wind when exiting a left-side door.
Has something changed????


You are making my hair hurt!

I can't imagine really thinking about it that much after the first few jumps.

Just keep it simple and be at one with the wind......
Shocked

Indeed, when coming last out of an Otter trail plane on a big way, I don't usually think much about which foot exits first.


danornan  (D 11308)

Jan 30, 2012, 10:18 AM
Post #18 of 21 (2045 views)
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Re: [kallend] Diving exits from an Otter [In reply to] Can't Post

I think if you foot leaves first, you are sort of in trouble.

Kind of like diving out when you should be dive floating! You are already behind the curve.....


gamache529  (C 39275)

Oct 12, 2012, 9:43 AM
Post #19 of 21 (1451 views)
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Re: [ufk22] Diving exits from an Otter [In reply to] Can't Post

i may be wrong but most cessnas the door is on the right...most otters have left doors...so since the door is on the opposite side than the cessna you have to exit with your opposite foot 1st/last


Rick  (D 28557)

Oct 12, 2012, 10:58 AM
Post #20 of 21 (1430 views)
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Re: [danornan] Diving exits from an Otter [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I think if you foot leaves first, you are sort of in trouble.

Kind of like diving out when you should be dive floating! You are already behind the curve.....
------------------------------------------------------------

That's what I thought too Dan. But I have had a change of heart recently. When I am a close to mid diver I found that stepping off with my left foot while pushing off with the right chest to wing right arm extended up puts me in a perfect position to dive to the base. You can bend your left arm and point your elbow at the base.
I found when diving head first as a mid diver I was getting to steep and almost diving past the base.

this works for me YMMV


danornan  (D 11308)

Oct 14, 2012, 1:37 PM
Post #21 of 21 (1323 views)
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Re: [Rick] Diving exits from an Otter [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
------------------------------------------------------------

I found that stepping off with my left foot while pushing off with the right chest to wing right arm extended up puts me in a perfect position to dive to the base. You can bend your left arm and point your elbow at the base.

That explains what i saw you do today! ;-0



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