Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Relative Work:
16-way from a PAC 750 XL

 


Rebecca-Berlin  (C 37918)

Jul 20, 2008, 4:07 PM
Post #1 of 22 (2647 views)
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16-way from a PAC 750 XL Can't Post

After 2 days of training 16-way jumps out of a PAC 750XL, I now sit at home with a pack of frozen french fries pressed against my neck.

I was thrown against the left side of the door during an exit and now have a huge red swollen lump under my left ear where my neck connected with the plastic door guard. I paused, stunned after this happened and the next diver shoved my right shoulder forward to send me spinning out. Even though I thought my neck was bleeding I still managed to find the base, and dock on for one point.

After this jump I changed from front diver in the second row to rear floater and did much better. But the girl who was rear diver was thrown against the door and tore her left ear. It hurt so much she did not exit, but rather stayed in the plane with the pilot and landed bleeding profusely. She thought she may have hurt her ear-drum, which she luckily didn't.
Pirate

Has anyone out there successfully done 16-way training out of a PAC 750XL? If so, what is your exit line-up?


rhys  (D 95)

Jul 20, 2008, 4:56 PM
Post #2 of 22 (2621 views)
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Re: [Rebecca-Berlin] 16-way from a PAC 750 XL [In reply to] Can't Post

how were you thrown against the door?

PAC's are not renound for beeing good aircraft for such formations. the stack can steal the air from the horizontal stabaliser and put the plane in a dive. is this what happened?


jumper03  (D License)

Jul 21, 2008, 7:33 AM
Post #3 of 22 (2520 views)
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Re: [Rebecca-Berlin] 16-way from a PAC 750 XL [In reply to] Can't Post

The largest formation we've gotten out of just the PAC 750 is a 13 way at raeford. We've successfully used it on formation loads and gone much larger, but by itself, 13-14 seems to be the limit. The last jumper has a heck of a job jumping the wing spar, dodging benches while trying to hit the needle eye of a door as the plane is bouncing all around. It's also tough to get very many people outside as well, 4 seems to be our limit (and that is including the video guy) and if you jam the inside with more pepole, well, lets say you might take the plane along for the skydive Laugh

Let us know if you get 16 Smile


Rebecca-Berlin  (C 37918)

Jul 21, 2008, 8:28 AM
Post #4 of 22 (2500 views)
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Re: [jumper03] 16-way from a PAC 750 XL [In reply to] Can't Post

We did 9 jumps with 16 divers and a video man this weekend. One jump we even had 16 divers and 2 cameramen (but the plane was so packed full no one could fasten their seat belts because we could not move.)

For some reason on Saturday, no one got hurt going out the door, but on Sunday it seemed like after the initial exit of the 8 at the door the plane must have bounced up, leaving the 2 next divers to be rammed to the left as the last 7 ran past and dove out. The line-up was five floaters, including the video man, 3 divers in the first row, 2 in the second and the rest madly running out one by one.

This is the second weekend of 16-way training with the pac. The first was in June and the next one will be in September.

After being thrown against the door yesterday, today my left shoulder hurts and I can't turn my head to the right. The girl whose ear split open during her collison with the door then changed from a leather cap to a full-face helmet for the next dive, but called it quits at 4 pm, because of the trauma.


rhys  (D 95)

Jul 21, 2008, 8:45 AM
Post #5 of 22 (2495 views)
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Re: [Rebecca-Berlin] 16-way from a PAC 750 XL [In reply to] Can't Post

you guys are pushing it!!!


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jul 21, 2008, 8:51 AM
Post #6 of 22 (2492 views)
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Re: [Rebecca-Berlin] 16-way from a PAC 750 XL [In reply to] Can't Post

The "suicide slot" in many aircraft is similar; inside rear. It is critical to protect yourself when in that position and brief other people in the jamup not to apply pressure rearward; that can cause the same sort of problems.

Later divers sometimes still hit the door edge when they exit in the direction of the formation. When I'm exiting late, I think about exiting towards the wingtip to avoid the problems caused by the rear of the door.


Fast  (D 28237)

Jul 21, 2008, 9:35 AM
Post #7 of 22 (2483 views)
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Re: [Rebecca-Berlin] 16-way from a PAC 750 XL [In reply to] Can't Post

I have done 14-way out of a PAC. We found that any more than 5 (including camera) outside the plane was unreasonable and led to problems keeping the plane flying right. It isn't super fun being a diver either. I don't think I would be comfortable doing anything larger than 14-way RW from a PAC and 12 is a MUCH more reasonable number.


(This post was edited by Fast on Jul 21, 2008, 9:36 AM)


Rebecca-Berlin  (C 37918)

Jul 21, 2008, 10:47 AM
Post #8 of 22 (2467 views)
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Re: [Fast] 16-way from a PAC 750 XL [In reply to] Can't Post

When I said 8 at the door I meant 5 floaters and 3 divers.


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Jul 21, 2008, 10:58 AM
Post #9 of 22 (2459 views)
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Re: [billvon] 16-way from a PAC 750 XL [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The "suicide slot" in many aircraft is similar; inside rear. It is critical to protect yourself when in that position and brief other people in the jamup not to apply pressure rearward; that can cause the same sort of problems.

Later divers sometimes still hit the door edge when they exit in the direction of the formation. When I'm exiting late, I think about exiting towards the wingtip to avoid the problems caused by the rear of the door.

I really hate being a middle diver going out of an otter when the exit has to be tightly bunched. I don't come out of those too well. Laugh Broke my arm on a 100+ way attempt on the door frame 10 years ago, and fucked up both legs a few months ago when I stumbled and got squeezed through the bottom rear corner. Pirate

Just give me a floater slot or last out late diver. Tongue


Rebecca-Berlin  (C 37918)

Jul 21, 2008, 4:07 PM
Post #10 of 22 (2410 views)
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Re: [BillyVance] 16-way from a PAC 750 XL [In reply to] Can't Post

I sooo agree. I hope to stay as the rear floater in this team. With 3 floaters in front of me there is virtually no wind, and I have lots of time to get a strong grip with my right hand, put my right foot in the little tiny spot left for me in the door and hang low till the set-up is ready to jump.

I talked to the girl whose ear cartilage was ripped on the exit (she is on antibiotics till it heals) and she thinks she'll be ok if she is the front diver in the second row. She is buying a full-face helmet now. We think the divers behind us may have pushed us to the left. If the back of the plane jolted upwards after the first 7 jumped then we would have been thrown to the right. But our pilot is great and I don't think he went into a dive as we exited.

By the way, I got the numbers wrong. There is only enough space for 2 divers, not 3, in the PAC. So it's 4 out the door (plus video), 2 divers in the first row, 2 in the second, and 8 lined up behind us to run out single file.

I have heard a few stories now about dislocated shoulders on bigways. I think 16 will be my limit for awhile.


(This post was edited by Rebecca-Berlin on Jul 21, 2008, 5:11 PM)


Andievh  (C 1695)

Jul 21, 2008, 5:36 PM
Post #11 of 22 (2394 views)
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Re: [Rebecca-Berlin] 16-way from a PAC 750 XL [In reply to] Can't Post

I vave been last diver on a couple of 12 or 13 ways out of the PAC...does get incredibly bouncy once the outside guys let go and when it is your turn to scoot out. The secret of course is to hold onto whatever you can and expect that you will be running up a 45 degree slippery floor...not going to be easy, but cool challange.....I have sailed out that door like a snake a couple of times....hehe and then there is that little hypoxia that feels as though everything is in slow motion!


bodypilot1  (D 16037)

Jul 21, 2008, 9:24 PM
Post #12 of 22 (2369 views)
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Re: [Rebecca-Berlin] 16-way from a PAC 750 XL [In reply to] Can't Post

 
You shouldn't have that problem for long, when the Kodiak start replacing the PAC for skydiving...... Wink


Rebecca-Berlin  (C 37918)

Jul 22, 2008, 2:47 AM
Post #13 of 22 (2345 views)
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Re: [bodypilot1] 16-way from a PAC 750 XL [In reply to] Can't Post

Our DZ just bought the PAC this year, replacing a rented Cessna Caravan. I don't think they'll be buying a new airplane again soon. Tongue


XLR8

Jul 30, 2008, 1:02 AM
Post #14 of 22 (2106 views)
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Re: [Rebecca-Berlin] 16-way from a PAC 750 XL [In reply to] Can't Post

our 8-way team had 5 outside and the camera man.
(so 6 outside)

i guess it depends on the way the step is set up outside, but 5 was ok.


Rebecca-Berlin  (C 37918)

Aug 3, 2008, 7:08 AM
Post #15 of 22 (2016 views)
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Re: [XLR8] 16-way from a PAC 750 XL [In reply to] Can't Post

Here are 2 pics from our last training. The aerial photographer was Mirko Schmidt.Cool
Attachments: 9 Skydivers.jpg (27.2 KB)
  13 Divers.jpg (49.2 KB)


collinb  (D 1307)

Aug 3, 2008, 4:41 PM
Post #16 of 22 (1990 views)
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Re: [Rebecca-Berlin] 16-way from a PAC 750 XL [In reply to] Can't Post

 
attached is 8-way exit from one of the 8-way teams training out of our Pac last year. Photo by Nick Armstrong, team Factory Defect out of SkyDance SkyDiving in David CA

also for a better exit with a full plane; 14, 15 or 16, take out the bench on the left side of the plane, facing rear, you'll find you can stack it up a little tigher, keep the last 4-5 back until the "set" to help COG otherwise the "normal' 8-way exit - 5 out plus video and 3 inside all linked then stack up the rest in a 1 1/2 line when the bench is out.


(This post was edited by collinb on Aug 3, 2008, 4:44 PM)
Attachments: IMG_4360 low res.jpg (56.3 KB)
  IMG_4551 low res.jpg (58.1 KB)


Rebecca-Berlin  (C 37918)

Aug 3, 2008, 4:49 PM
Post #17 of 22 (1986 views)
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Re: [collinb] 16-way from a PAC 750 XL [In reply to] Can't Post

Great Pics! Here's another one..Cool Photo by Mirko Schmidt


(This post was edited by Rebecca-Berlin on Aug 3, 2008, 4:51 PM)
Attachments: rebecca leaving the plane.jpg (45.5 KB)


Skydivesg  (D 10938)

Sep 18, 2008, 10:16 AM
Post #18 of 22 (1678 views)
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Re: [Rebecca-Berlin] 16-way from a PAC 750 XL [In reply to] Can't Post

Is that your head that can just be seen sticking out above that guy's red rig in the door?


Rebecca-Berlin  (C 37918)

Sep 18, 2008, 1:45 PM
Post #19 of 22 (1650 views)
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Re: [Skydivesg] 16-way from a PAC 750 XL [In reply to] Can't Post

NopeTongue I'm the one in blue and yellow. But that does look odd at the door, doesn't it?Sly


proswooper  (D 27048)

Sep 18, 2008, 5:07 PM
Post #20 of 22 (1629 views)
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Re: [bodypilot1] 16-way from a PAC 750 XL [In reply to] Can't Post

kodiak is a squeeze with 14 people in it. doesn't climb nearly as well as a pac even though they advertise a similar climb rate.

it will be a good improvement on a porter tho


Skydivesg  (D 10938)

Sep 18, 2008, 5:20 PM
Post #21 of 22 (1626 views)
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Re: [Rebecca-Berlin] 16-way from a PAC 750 XL [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, it looks very odd.

And (in my humble opinion) just from looking at how the guy in the door is scraping his rig on the rear door frame and judging how close you are to the airplane. I think you guys need to think more about diving through the front half of the door and try to launch more directly at the wing tip while doing (for the lack of a better term) a cart wheel over your left hand.

This will present you nicely, allowing you to use the relative wind to fly down the hill keeping you close to the formation and at the same time getting further away from the plane and giving more room for those behind you.

The more you try to cut the corner diving out the door, the more likely the people behind you are to hit the back of the door.


Rebecca-Berlin  (C 37918)

Sep 19, 2008, 12:27 PM
Post #22 of 22 (1582 views)
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Re: [Skydivesg] 16-way from a PAC 750 XL [In reply to] Can't Post

We had our final 16-way PAC training of the year last weekend. 2 of the three ladies on the team are now floaters. We have 4 floaters and our camera-person outside and the other 12 inside. Now that I have a floater position, I basically just back off, wait for the base to stop funneling, then dock on (no cartwheels).

Since I am not the coach, I don't think it is my job to tell the divers to exit parallel to the wing instead of down and left. But the concept is spot on.

There is a lot of (frantic) pushing from the inside, to get out as fast as possible. Pirate We think that is what is destabilizing the base, which is made up of four bulky experienced skydivers. 4 lined-up divers had major bruises on thighs and calves (calfs?) at the end of the weekend. After shuffeling forward, they weren't able to make the last step to dive out, and slammed into the floor/bottom door edge instead. Also, we broke off training Sunday at noon due to rain.

Next spring the adventure continues. Wink



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